Originally posted by NGONGE: Is it possible this is why Islam did not prohibit it outright? It doesn't matter. Muslims, following Islam, practiced slavery as late as this past century. So regardless of what Islam intended, muslims thought it was A-Ok to enslave people.

Amelia, You're the consummate chameleon. Keep squirming!

Separation of Church and State is the reason why the Age of Enlightenment and Reason took place in the West and no where else. It's also the reason why world migration patters are from Theological to Secular, not the other way around. May God bless and protect all secular, democratic nations. Verily, for they are the only demonstrable hope for mankind. Amiin!

Originally posted by The Rendez-vous: Muslims are targeted for not dressing sexually like the followers of Paul, and the Western society. Where? I haven't noticed any campaign here in Canada intended to cajole muslims to eschew their attire for Bikinis. Are you making this up?

The show is gay. I'd go further and say much of what's on the Tube these days are laden subliminal gay messages.

Originally posted by Amelia: This is the difference between you and I Val , you’ve the ‘need to prove yourself mentality’. I, on the other hand, don’t feel like I need to prove anything to anyone. Who helped you reach this copernican personal opinion? I succinctly recall you ardently arguing for the potential joys and boons to be gained from persuing career as proctologist. What has precipitated the change of mind? Dropping out of school is intellectual punt! Most people can handle the intellectual and emotional demand of Higher Education and instead opt to throw up their hands out of cowardice. Or fear of failure. Whatever it is, it's inexcusable. Education is not only requirement for jobs in many industries but imperative in a modern world that continues in spades to get more and more technical. And thanks to the proliferation of information, in the future, not only will you need some form of Uni degree but will have to re-train yourself every few years to keep abreast of new knowledge. SB, Deen of Mickey Mouse University

Originally posted by Tenaciousgirl: 1. What boosts your fight for better future? 2.When going though those unpredictable dark clouds…What act do u do, to clear those clouds?

It's a veritable truth that SOmali women are oppressed. If you think otherwise, it's prolly due to you burrying your head under than sand blissfully oblivious to reality. Ask me! I did a social experiment a while back in Somalia, on this very same subject: plight of Somali women. I carried out my experiment incognito inspired by the antics of the King in that arabian nights tale... disguising myself as your typical xalimo. Donning local somali female attire, topping it all by swathing myself with large, drab sheet. Among most startling discoveries include the following. Somali men at earshot distance gave me bemused stares at best, askance looks at worst. Nary one would even speak to me. Somali women in contrast, didn't fair any better either. For starters, most would scamper off in what seemed to be in fright the moment I approached them. In one instance, I feigned suffering from extreme thirst and begged somali women in a shop for a glass of water. She ran out of her shop with all it's valueable possessions screaming: alla hogayeey, wuxu muxu yahay and such other unintelligible utterings. All in all, as evinced by my scientifically sound experimental findings, somali women are oppressed from all corners of society. Their pathos touched and changed this author in many ways... their lamentable plight forever etched on my mind.

Strangely, I only remember Jug-jug and Indhee (sp?).

Yes. Where can I sign up? Fight the good fight!

I wholeheartedly agree. Never before have truer words been elegantly expressed. A real and strong woman knows her place to be home. Only the weak-minded are seduced by meretricious trappings of independence, equality and the rest of Kufr shenanigans.

Originally posted by Asxabul_kahf: with respect- I wish not to engage in any debate' for the simple reason that so many earlier ones have steered the wrong way and I only pointed out to you the previous ayah and comment to start you on the thinking process and research. Also wish to share the adab of debates said by our earlier scholars for all others who are viewing this. Who're you jiving with that cosmic debris, heh? This is the Adab of debates: The Argument Sketch From "Monty Python's Previous Record" and "Monty Python's Instant Record Collection" Originally transcribed by Dan Kay (dan@reed.uucp) Fixed up and Added "Complaint" and "Being Hit On The Head lessons" Aug/ 87 by Tak Ariga (tak@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu) The Cast (in order of appearance.) M= Man looking for an argument R= Receptionist Q= Abuser A= Arguer (John Cleese) C= Complainer (Eric Idle) H= Head Hitter M: Ah. I'd like to have an argument, please. R: Certainly sir. Have you been here before? M: No, I haven't, this is my first time. R: I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you thinking of taking a course? M: Well, what is the cost? R: Well, It's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten. M: Well, I think it would be best if I perhaps started off with just the one and then see how it goes. R: Fine. Well, I'll see who's free at the moment. Pause R: Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory. Ahh yes, Try Mr. Barnard; room 12. M: Thank you. (Walks down the hall. Opens door.) Q: WHAT DO YOU WANT? M: Well, I was told outside that... Q: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings! M: What? Q: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!! M: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!! Q: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. M: Oh, I see, well, that explains it. Q: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor. M: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry. Q: Not at all. M: Thank You. (Under his breath) ****** git!! (Walk down the corridor) M: (Knock) A: Come in. M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument? A: I told you once. M: No you haven't. A: Yes I have. M: When? A: Just now. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't A: I did! M: You didn't! A: I'm telling you I did! M: You did not!! A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? M: Oh, just the five minutes. A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did. M: You most certainly did not. A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you. M: No you did not. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't. A: Did. M: Oh look, this isn't an argument. A: Yes it is. M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction. A: No it isn't. M: It is! A: It is not. M: Look, you just contradicted me. A: I did not. M: Oh you did!! A: No, no, no. M: You did just then. A: Nonsense! M: Oh, this is futile! A: No it isn't. M: I came here for a good argument. A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. M: An argument isn't just contradiction. A: It can be. M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. A: No it isn't. M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' A: Yes it is! M: No it isn't! A: Yes it is! M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes. (short pause) A: No it isn't. M: It is. A: Not at all. M: Now look. A: (Rings bell) Good Morning. M: What? A: That's it. Good morning. M: I was just getting interested. A: Sorry, the five minutes is up. M: That was never five minutes! A: I'm afraid it was. M: It wasn't. Pause A: I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue anymore. M: What?! A: If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes. M: Yes, but that was never five minutes, just now. Oh come on! A: (Hums) M: Look, this is ridiculous. A: I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid! M: Oh, all right. (pays money) A: Thank you. short pause M: Well? A: Well what? M: That wasn't really five minutes, just now. A: I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid. M: I just paid! A: No you didn't. M: I DID! A: No you didn't. M: Look, I don't want to argue about that. A: Well, you didn't pay. M: Aha. If I didn't pay, why are you arguing? I Got you! A: No you haven't. M: Yes I have. If you're arguing, I must have paid. A: Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time. M: Oh I've had enough of this. A: No you haven't. M: Oh Shut up. (Walks down the stairs. Opens door.) M: I want to complain. C: You want to complain! Look at these shoes. I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through. M: No, I want to complain about... C: If you complain nothing happens, you might as well not bother. M: Oh! C: Oh my back hurts, it's not a very fine day and I'm sick and tired of this office. (Slams door. walks down corridor, opens next door.) M: Hello, I want to... Ooooh! H: No, no, no. Hold your head like this, then go Waaah. Try it again. M: uuuwwhh!! H: Better, Better, but Waah, Waah! Put your hand there. M: No. H: Now.. M: Waaaaah!!! H: Good, Good! That's it. M: Stop hitting me!! H: What? M: Stop hitting me!! H: Stop hitting you? M: Yes! H: Why did you come in here then? M: I wanted to complain. H: Oh no, that's next door. It's being-hit-on-the-head lessons in here. M: What a ****** concept. The Arguement Sketch

I think the point some protagonists are making is: the wholesale adoption of ALL things arabic in place of all things Somali. Not the myopic Arabic names or Hijab issue some are harping on. For example, it's fashionable now days among Somali shop owners to give their shops Arabic names.

What's wrong?

It aint just the irreverent remarks about the Hijab but the tasteless, classless, flavorless, tawdry agitprop accompanying.

There's no doubt Isreal is exploiting Hezbollah's blunder. How does destroying a country's infrastructure -- bridges, roads, airports, seaports etc -- ensure save return of two kidnapped soldiers? I think Isreal had it's sights on neutralizing Hezbollah for sometime, waiting for a pretext.

What a swell idea. Anyone know where I can get Channel 4 in N. America. The potential for Simian sex studies (bonobos vs humans) is too mouth-watering to miss.

I bet my pic is better than all of yours. Say Hello to sister perpetual!

Originally posted by Naden: What if after you've cleaned your nafs of all evil, straightened out your kin, and even sternly lectured your neighbours, people in power are still robbing and maiming. What do you think should happen then? Repeat it all over. Do it as often as it takes. Practice makes perfect.

Do you suppose Somalis back home visit SOL? Seems your efforts are misplaced.

As Inter Milan fan, this is all music to my ears. Inter is now in pole position as shoo-in Scudetto winner.

October 22, 1844 • Miller Mistakenly Set a Date for Christ's Return. When will Jesus return? Christ warned that no man knows that day and hour. This has not stopped rash theologians from announcing dates. All have subsequently been disappointed by events. One of the most prominent prediction makers was Baptist preacher William Miller. Miller and his followers were destined for deep disappointment. Miller gained a large following, predicting that Christ would return on this day, October 22, 1844. His theories were not far fetched if one accepted interpretations in vogue through much of church history. The argument goes something like this: The prophet Daniel's eighth chapter speaks of 2,300 days. Many of the greatest scholars of the church (Augustine and Bede for example) took these days to stand for years. 490 years (the seventy "weeks" mentioned in Daniel 9:24) were "cut off" from the 2,300 years, leaving 1810 years. It was assumed that Christ died early in 31 ad. with 3-1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week still to run. Adding those 3-1/2 years to 31 ad. brings us to late 34 ad, at which time the 1810 remaining years supposedly began. 1810 + 34 brings us to 1844. Technical considerations placed the date in October 1844. Under this interpretation, it seemed possible to match actual historical events with the sequence of events in Daniel chapter eleven. Byzantium, the pope, Egypt, Turkey, France and other countries, supposedly fulfilled various predictions derived from the Bible. The whole argument was developed at length and convinced thousands of people. As many as 100,000 followers gathered at the predicted time in makeshift temples and on hillsides to "meet the bridegroom." Maxwell Pierson Gaddis attended one of these rallies and reported the result. When midnight came and Christ had not returned, people grew restless. Some walked out. One person said allowance must be made for differences of latitude and longitude between Palestine and the US. At about one o'clock one of the leaders rose and said "I never did fix upon the precise time myself, and I always told my brethren they would get into trouble if they did; but they would not listen to me, but followed other leaders...I believe the most important thing after all is, to be ready..." Humiliated by what has been called "The Great Disappointment," some Millerites shucked their faith completely. Led by Miller, others formed the Adventists. The majority returned to more traditional churches. The Great Disappointment

Viking and The Point, It would be the height of folly of me to deny: the greater sexual encounters with strangers, the greater chances to contract HIV. The stats are too stacked up against and too conclusive to say otherwise. I was, indirectly, trying to get Nur to agree with something many pious muslims refuse. That being muslims are either mired in (to greater or lesser degree) the same activities commonly attributed to the spread of HIV or are as susceptible as any other people. Too many muslims for comfort falsely believe they're immune from the AIDS menace by default. This report points this out and lays the blame, for this mindset on the continual denial of the serious threat posed by AIDS, squarly on the shoulders of leaders. Also, while admitting spread of venereal diseases is aided by unwholesome sexual practices, that in of itself is not foolproof evidence against mitigating factors not as causal if not more. Attenuating factors like decent public health system, public awareness and education etc etc. The West is best example. Here is a society where casual sexual encounters with strangers is not too uncommon and yet has warded off the spread of AIDS to alarming levels. All in all, the take away message from this report is this: AIDS doesn't discriminate on religion, race, political idealogy etc... everyone is vulnerable!

Originally posted by Viking: Socod_badne, This Hadith says the same thing as I was saying and nowhere does it say "man has no control over his destiny". How can you say that with straight face? More pertinently, how can you claim this: So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire. ... says differently than what I've been saying all this time? The bold part underscore the role our pre-destined life plays. It's as a slam dunk case as they come. The Hadith shows you Allah's Omniscience and the actions that are being written are what YOU ARE GOING TO DO (because Allah has Knowledge of everything) and not WHAT YOU ARE PROGRAMMED TO DO. There is no difference between writing down what you are going to do and what you're programmed to do for Omnisceint Creator. I have said that before and you haven't challenged it; hinting no disagreements. Let me try again. Take for instance a job interviewee who accepts 10 resumes from applicants and tells them to show up for formal interviews. Assuring them getting hired depends solely on how well their perform in the interview. However, before the interviews he vets the resumes and decides to cull half of the applicants. So prior to the interviews, he knows who he'll hire. The interviews still take place as scheduled, the outcome however remains immutable -- that which the interviewee already decided on. Idem Omniscient Creator. Before he creates anyone, he knows their ultimate fate. Sure, His creation have free will while they live their lifes but that free will can not change their ultimate fate privy to Allah prior to their creation. I can't be any more perspicuous. If you still disagree, lets agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Nur: Socod Badane You write: " Now, is it your position that the prevelance of AIDS is direct result of promiscuousness? I can prove to you otherwise" Please do, I am eagerly waiting. Here is a study which flies in the face of conventional wisdom. Among it's eye-catching findings include: equal rate of infection between muslim majority nations and Western Europe. If it's your conviction that AIDS infection rates reflect the promiscuousness of a society then you got your work cut out explaining away why traditionally conservative Islamic societies seem to have same infection rates as their European counterparts. staggering long backlogs? you must have forgotten the ( in ) before ( effectiveness) it should have read ineffectiveness! you see, truth is difficult to hide, let it out! Well it's only matter of time before those backlogs are cleared up. But if you want to see as it as sign of ineffectiveness, that's your prerogative. Some people say voter apathy in the West is reflection of public disillusionment or loss of faith in the system. I'm with others who see it as satisfaction. Study