^ You shoulda known some people would react that way.

Originally posted by Castro: ^^^^ Medieval mofos. And we have people like Ebyan probably born in the west singing "I loves my qabiil, I loves my qabiil. My qabiil is better than yours, I loves my qabiil." Uff. Praise the lord for my foreign passport. I never said my clan was better than anyone elses, so stop putting words in my mouth. I love my qabil, but according to Xiin I'm not a qabilist, so let's leave it at that. Originally posted by Ms Dhucdhuc & Dheylo: How can a SOL member know the clan of another member? I only know of the Duke's and Ebyans cos of their constant cheerleading of A/Y. You gotta be from his sub-sub-sub clan to cheer him or to stomach his murderous actions. *Sigh* You've joined the "your adeer yeey" bandwagon as well, eh? Whatever. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^Horta qoladee tahay? you are not getting it adeer. Your qabiilist tendencies goes beyond you! What would you do when the qabiil (this is tricky because a wicked person could easily speak in the name of your qabiil and secure followers ) you love so much commits injustices on other qabiils in the name of you noble qabiil? ps--forget about what most somalis do, just what would you as a person do? Lol@Qoladee tahay. I think you and I both know the answer to that question. If certain individuals from my qabil were to commit injustices towards other individuals of other qabils, I would condemn them and their actions, but that wouldn't diminish the amount of love(/pride) that I have for my qabil.

Lily; People have come to relay more heavily on qabil networking because of the collapse of the country. I'm glad we agree. Castro; Why should whether you love,hate, or are indifferent to your qabil have any bearing on how I view my qabil? I love my qabil, but that doesn't mean I love every single individual that belongs to my qabil. My love stems from my pride and there's nothing wrong with being proud of who/what you are. Xiinfaniin; I'm not defending or trying to justify anything. I happen to live in a very large Somali community and I have yet to come across a Somali who isn't even in the least bit way (regardless of how minuscule) clannish. Now that we've agreed that most Somalis are qabilist, it's a simple numbers game..I can't be the only qabilist here, so I was right in asserting that some people here are being fake. Qabiil is defferent than Qabyaalad. Example of qabiil is Xiinfaniin wanting to know Lily’s’ qabiil or Castro’s. That’s ok in my books. And what would one achieve from knowing someone elses tribe? Will you box them as 'friend' and 'foe' accordingly? Honestly, I think you're trying to convince yourself that your not qabilist. I believe I'm qabilist, but my qabilist tendencies don't go beyond me 'loving' my tribe. I could care less about what tribe hebel and heblayo belong to. Anyway, I think we all agree that most Somalis would pick their tribe over Somalia. Khalaf; Thank you brother.

Originally posted by -Lily-: Wouldn’t a greater nation that is for the benefit of ALL qabils and all people be a better goal to aim for then, no matter how hard this goal is, than say, a situation where only certain clans are powerful and protected, living good lives? I believe this is what got Somalia in this mess to begin with. Yeah, that would be great, but how do you go about achieving that? By making qabil a taboo subject? You need to face reality, the majority of Somalis are qabilist and all this feel-good hoopla wouldn't change a damn thing. Ms D&D; You're assuming I don't interact with Somalis other than my family, so try again. What next, maybe I went through a traumatic event and that explains why I'm a qabilist? Or maybe it's the doing of my parents who've brain-washed me beyond repair?! I love my tribe and if that makes me qabilist, so be it.

Lily; Only a sick person would favour someone over another purely for clan reasons. Okay, we're obviously talking about two different things here. When I say most Somalis are qabilist, I mean that they see themselves as part of a qabil and when push comes to shove, they'd choose their qabil. It has nothing to do with siding with or picking individuals from your qabil over individuals from another qabil purely based on their DNA. I was simply replying to the question posed in the topic: clan/tribe vs. country. I wasn't trying to be condescending, but I can't believe that tribe has no influence (what-so-ever) in your life. Ms D&D; There's a difference between loving your tribe and hating others because of theirs. At the risk of generalising, is one more qabiiliste if other clans arent mixed within his/her family? Maybe Abyan's family is from one clan. Yes, both of parents are from the same sub-sub(..etc) clan, but what does that prove? Originally posted by Jimcaale: Historically, laga yaabo inuu qabiilka dadka wax tari jiray but since the civil war, it did more damage to Somali individuals. Thousands of innocents were simply targeted for crimes they were never part of or knew took place. And thousands of others were saved by their tribes.

Mogadishu pre-91.

Ms D&D; I think most people on this thread are being fake, so, yes I represent the average Somalis take on this subject. Castro; Maybe if you quit with the condescending tone I'd take you more seriously. :rolleyes: Lily; You're not even in the least bit clannishly-inclined? I guess you're not Somali.

I spoke too soon. It seems like the pseudo-intellectuals on this forum have freed themselves from the mental shackles of qabil. My comments still ring true for the average Somali.

I don't think the niqab is a requirement, but it should not have been banned. Don't they have female soldiers? I'm sure they could have used them to 'inspect' the niqabis if it were a simple security measure. Bad move on the part of the admin. P.S.- Why burn the niqabs?

Originally posted by Wisdom_Seeker: I really don’t know how people fellow and support a fellow kinsmen merely because of his clan/tribe... :confused: I don't think you get it; it has nothing to do with boasting or supporting someone because of his/her clan. Just ask yourself a simple question..What has Somalia done for you? Personally, I can't think of any thing. My clan, on the other hand, has done a lot for me and for that I am ever grateful. There's nothing wrong with loving your tribe. I can't for a second believe that you're not in the least bit clannishly-inclined. That is totally un-Somali. Edit: People cut it out with the "let's-hold-hands-and-sing-kumbaya" routine. All Somalis are qabilist. Get with it. :rolleyes:

That's not a wife, that's a maid who puts out!

^ There was an election with a bunch of candidates( can't recall all their names), but in the end it was between him and the former President( I believe it was Hashi) who took office after Abdullahi Yusuf was elected as the President of Somalia. And yes they did campaign.

Let's cut the b.s. and tell it like it is. If you were to do a survey asking Somalis what was more important to them: their tribe or their country, I'm sure most (if not all) would say the former. I can't stand "douche bag hippies" who act like they don't have a qabilist bone in their body (qabil is a primitive concept,I'm reer-magal blah-blah-blah). Everyone is born to a tribe and when the lines are drawn, everyone will take sides accordingly. This isn't the result of the civil-war; Somalis are, have always been and will always be like this. Lake; Yeah, great, Mr.HY( that means high-york, right? :rolleyes: ) anything else?

Originally posted by Geel_Jire12: Quote: If we're going to mathematically/logically sum up wat Somalia has done for individuals here and what their qabil has done for them, the majority would go for Qabil over Somalia. In the turmoil in Somalia, I say my Qabil has fought harder for my families';protection and welfare than any other group. That's what comes first in my identity. Simple format, think it through before sounding like hippy douchebags with the whole "unity" thing. This was written by Somali youth on another forum. Does he have a point? Is he wrong/right? I agree with him. If it weren't for my qabil, I probably wouldn't be where am I today. My qabil is a very important part of my identity and yes I am tribe xyz before I'm Somali. Being Somali has done diddly-squat for me.

Imans feet after wearing heels for years:

Mj. Bada Cas; The SNM was liquidated as soon as it took control of Somaliland. They could have continue and carried on onslaught against neighboring regions like Sool, Sanaag, and perhaps even over to Bari and Nugaal if they wanted to, and today you would be looking at the same situations in the South. The SNM was a rebel organization and regardless of its objective/intention, innocent people were killed in it's name. Is the average Somalilander responsible for the actions of these individuals even though they hail from the region now known as Somaliland? No. So, how then, can the average Puntlander be held responsible for the actions of Abdullahi Yusuf? How can you blame them? The reason I said Pland produced Abdullahi Yusuf is because, Abdullahi Yusuf went from Puntland' leader to trouble maker in the South today. You might say he is legit President and all that, but hey being legit President doesn't give one the right to do what he has done. That doesn't make ANY sense. Abdullahi Yusuf is from Puntland so Puntland is to blame? Puntland wasn't behind his election, the warlords in Mogadishu were. Puntland wasn't behind his ascendance to power, Ethiopia was. So, how is Puntland or the average Puntlander responsible for the actions of Abdullahi Yusuf (it's actually the TFG, there's nothing that Abdullahi Yusuf could do on his own)? Today in Somaliland no one dies for no appararent reason, meaning in meaningless wars, except by natural causes. In Puntland, majority of the TFG militia are the kids and fadhi ku dirir from the streets of Gorowe and Galkacayo, they have died in scores as they fought ALONG SIDE the EThiopians. That is shame. Weird. I coulda sworn there was a little battle down in Dhahar a few weeks back, wasn't that a 'meaningless' war and didn't Somalilanders die? Hmmm..It must be the amnesia again. But of course, the Somalilanders went there in defence of their country/government..Oh wait, the Puntlanders in the TFG troops are in Mogadishu for the same reason, they are there in defence of the TFG (THEIR government). Oh yeah and then there's Puntlands 'evil' relationship with Ethiopia..Damn, Somaliland has the same relationship with Ethiopia. What was that little saying..People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Castro; Did the SSDF ever leave Ethiopia? On October 12, 1985, Ethiopian authorities arrested Ahmad and six of his lieutenants after they repeatedly indicated that Balumbale and Goldogob were part of Somalia. The Ethiopian government justified the arrests by saying that Ahmad had refused to comply with a SSDF Central Committee decision relieving him as chairman. Mahammad Abshir, a party bureaucrat, then assumed command of the SSDF. Under his leadership, the SSDF became militarily moribund, primarily because of poor relations with Addis Ababa. In August 1986, the Ethiopian army attacked SSDF units, then launched a war against the movement, and finally jailed its remaining leaders. For the next several years, the SSDF existed more in name than in fact. In late 1990, however, after Ethiopia released former SSDF leader Ahmad, the movement reemerged as a fighting force in Somalia, albeit to a far lesser degree than in the early 1980s. Here the "semi-autonomous" north eastern part of Somalia is now lovingly called Puntland. Was this naming just a tit-for-tat of Somaliland picking up a new name and declaring independence? Or was there more logic to it? Northeastern Somalia was believed to be the location of the historical 'Land of Punt' hence the name Puntland. Puntland was born out of necessity: Following the pattern of the Booroma National Charter, which formalized the birth of Somaliland during 1993, a new entity - the Puntland State of Somalia - was established in July 1998 out of a long Constitutional process that lasted more than two months. As in Boorama, the Constitutional Conference produced a three-year provisional Charter and elected a political leadership, i. e. a President and an Executive Council (called Council of Ministers in the Boorama Charter). Boorama paved the way, but it is a fact that the Puntland Constitutional Conference has been the product of a longer process, which officially started during 1997 but went back to the second National Reconciliation Conference of Addis Ababa of 1993. Indeed, during the National Reconciliation Conference, the SSDF (Somali Salvation Democratic Front) leadership anticipated its ‘federalist’ view of the future of Somalia, unofficially disclosed during 1994 in a statement by the Somali Community Information Centre in London. ....the federalist position has gradually acquired substance, recognizing the de facto situation on the ground: a clan-divided Somalia. Finally, the failure of several national reconciliation processes, from Sodere (1996) to Cairo (1997), created the condition for an autonomous regional process, pending the formation of other regional entities and the establishment of a new Federal Somalia. Here Wisdom_Seeker; SSDF has evolved into "Puntland" Incorrect. Former members of the SSDF may have had a hand in establishing Puntland, but Puntland isn't a code-name for the SSDF or any other rebel movement. As far as I know, the SSDF no longer exists. The ICU perhaps could be the USC surfacing with the help of an Islamic movement , which could explain the ICU generally wrapping itself around the banner of Islam. SSDF and SNM didn’t associate themselves with anything that would be considered as an Islamic organization or movement, but mainly a clan or region organization. The ICU wasn’t only a threat to fellow tribalistic Somalis , but to Ethiopia and America, which deem anything Islamic to be a direct threat to them. I guess they’re aware of what will happen if Islam and not tribalism takes root in Somalia. They fear Unity. If the ICU was just a cover for the USC it would be a threat to ALL Somalis. The USC wasn't a pretty organization, they were responsible for many deaths/rapes/kidnappings etc. , so anyone and everyone would be justified in their opposition. I doubt Somaliland is interested in a unified Somalia I don't know what you mean by a 'unified Somalia'. If you mean all five points of the star, then no, Somaliland( and Djibouti and maybe even NFD + Zone5 for that matter) is(are) not interested in seeing or being apart of a "unified" Somalia. Puntland has it’s own hidden agenda And what would that 'hidden agenda' be? It wouldn't be so 'hidden' if you know about it, would it?

There are suppose to be elections in '09, correct? Will there be political parties and will the 4.5 system be absolished?

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: PS - "Radio Free Somalia" [very ironic, ] online editor is a guy by the name of Maxamed Daahir, a staunch pro-Stooge of Xabashadda, and also a distant cousin of his. He also edits, hosts and produces a one-hour radio show in Koronto, plus another hour of TV show, which was intended to be a community news, but lately solely devoted to the Frail Stooge of Xabashadda and the policies set by his occupying Masters. Maxamed Daahir and Abdullahi Yusuf are not relatives, but I'm sure you were trying to allude to his qabil. Yes, he is from Abdullahi Yusufs clan, but why is that important? Did you really need to mention that? :confused: As for the TV and radio show, they reflect the opinion(s) of most Somali-Torontonians, if they didn't he wouldn't be hosting either show now would he be? Showing clips of Somali Torontonians celebrating the 'victory' of the TFG is community news. The show isn't "solely devoted to the Frail Stooge of Xabashadda and the policies set by his occupying Masters", it's just that the events back home are important to many people, so it only makes sense to devote most of the show to news from Somalia. They try to keep it as balanced as possible. Maxamed Daahir has been receiving a lot of flack as of late from desperate people with much pent-up anger ( notably the editors of Waagacusub who went as far as to accuse him of being a pedophile), so give him a break.

Girl: What is this about? Guy: I'm not from that tribe. Girl: Oh ok. Guy: I'm just kidding. Girl:(laughs)Good answer.

Nice video. Whos the woman in the picture, anyone famous?

Renegade; first of all hargeysa and the whole of the original waqooyi galbeed and togdheer were completely disgarded by all of the somali administration from when somalia and somaliland united. Let's just focus on Hargaysa for the time being since it's the most developed city in Somaliland. but your ignorance is compounded when you claim that bosaaso was built from scratch and hargeysa wasnt. what whole have you been hiding in and what propaganda have you been told, hmm? So because I said Bosaso is/was the success story of the civil war, I've been fed propaganda? :confused: Hold up, I didn't say Hargaysa was any less developed than Bosaso, I said the amount of development that has occurred in Bosaso post-91 is more than that of Hargaysas. Compare Bosaso pre-91 to Bosaso post-91 and then make the same comparison for Hargaysa and you'll see what I'm talking about. Bosaso pre-91 was nothing more than a small town. Hargaysa pre-91 was the second capital of Somalia..See where I'm going with this? So it is nothing short of miracle what the people of Hargeysa have made of their city after it was levelled to the ground by Morgan and co. Yes and I commend them for that. it is now one of the most developed cities in africa and is CERTAINLY the most developed city in the somali populated areas of the Horn of Afrika. Lol Is there any evidence to support this claim of yours? As a Somalilander you'll say that Hargaysa is the most developed city and as a Puntlander I'll say that Bosaso is, so let's just agree to disagree. Each city is a jewel to it's people, so there's no point in going back and forth about which one is more beautiful/developed/peaceful etc..They're both great cities.

Loool What a list! There's probably a martyr-wife out there following every last point.

Originally posted by bilan: the guy was joking and you can hear people laughing and the girl saying good answer, it was all joke. Exactly! He was kidding around with the girl.