It doesn't matter what Puntland (or any self-declared autonomous region) considers itself. To the average Somali south of Gaalkacyo Puntland militias are viewed as clan militia. There are clan militias from Puntland in Mogadishu today awaiting the go ahead to disarm clans there. Tell me, since you're the champion of empowering the weak and levelling the playing field for all clans, why do you support the disarming of some clans but OK with others keeping their militias intact?

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^The TFG brought the world of clan courts & warlords crashing down and this in the end will be the legacy it has given to the people of Mogadishu. Duke, you have 2 years to work with and all you could come up with is pathetic strawman about the demise of the ICU. Who asked you about what the TFG is doing now thanks to Melez's militia? I specifically asked you to cite tangible TFG achievements since it's creation until the rise of the ICU. That's from 2004 until summer of 2006. Enough time, 2 years to be exact, for you to find positive achievements to show what the TFG can do on it's own without borrowed muscles. If as I suspect the reason for evading my poignant question is there's not much to mention, then pray tell why we should support this treasonous government for another 2 years. Last but not least, please refrain from the sentimental embellishments. Argue with facts and reason or don't argue at all.

Originally posted by General Duke: No clan should retain arms outside the governemnt that goes for all. Agreed but without follow through it's merely more mealy-mouthed platitudes. There are hundreds of Puntland clan militia in Mogadishu to "disarm" clan militias there. No body sees Galgadud state militias or Jubba Valley Alliance militia or Puntland militia or any other militia for anything but clan militias. No regional clan militias should be allowed to retain it's arms if you wanna convince others to disarm their militias. It's simple as that.

Originally posted by General Duke: lol. The clan courts did not even create an admin for Mogadishu let alone built it up. Kindly stop with the baseless lies, the TFG has put the admin in place all of the 16 districts has its own admin, the police stations are open and so is the central prison. The remainder of the clan courts are bombing and killing and trying to undermine the security, they will be dealt with as their forces have been in crushed in the battle fields their operatives in Mogadishu will be rooted out insha Allah.. Since it's inception the TFG hasn't brought a single redeeming benefit to the people of Mogadishu. Or for that matter any other region. Not one thing. Their manadate was to reconcile hostile and bitterly divided Somalis, if anything they polarized Somalis courtesy of inviting 20000 ethiopian troops. New fault lines exist today as solely byproduct of TFG's treasonous acts. They haven't pacified a single region. Haven't built a single school. Nor have they fed a single starving child. Kindly tell us what they've done from 2004 till summer of 2006.

What makes you think the population will disarm when their historical enemy/competitor clan(s) is armed to the teeth?

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^Rome was not built in a day.. What a whacky analogy. What Rome are you building might I ask? You had Rome (ICU mogadishu), destroyed it and now you claim to rebuilding it. A better analogy would tearing down the house and frantically trying to rebuild it. This is the tack this foriegn entity has taken. Your whacky analogy says a lot about how detached -- wittingly or unwittingly -- you are from reality.

I feel sorry for these poor AU troops who come with noble intention of peacekeeping but will enevitably be drawn into clan wars.

Sorry to rain on your parade but I think you might benefit from this article. Gunbattle erupts at Mogadishu police station By Sahal Abdulle Saturday, March 10, 2007 MOGADISHU (Reuters) - Newly-trained security forces clashed with police at a Mogadishu police station on Saturday in a gunbattle that killed one person and wounded two, witnesses said. The incident was a reminder of the size of the task faced by Ugandan soldiers, the vanguard of an African Union (AU) force that started arriving this week to tame the anarchy that has usually reigned in the Somali capital since 1991. "A stray bullet came from nowhere. Tensions were high and there was firing from both sides," said local reporter Abdullahi Addow, who was inside the police station at the time. A security source said one policeman was killed and two security troops were wounded in the brief clash that took place when about 1,500 new forces turned up for duty at the police station in an eastern suburb of the coastal city. Many residents say insecurity is worsening in Mogadishu, with shootings and almost daily assaults on government forces and their Ethiopian allies, who defeated militant Islamists in a swift December offensive. The Ugandan soldiers were attacked almost as soon as they started landing on Tuesday, and two were wounded in an ambush the following day -- raising the specter of the last peacekeeping mission to Somalia, which ended in failure in 1995. More than a decade ago, well-armed and well-funded U.S. and U.N. troops were forced to withdraw from Somalia after relentless street battles with militiamen. CLAIM The self-styled Popular Resistance Movement has claimed responsibility for the assaults against the Ugandans. The authenticity of the claim could not be independently verified. "These groups and their threats have always been there. It's nothing new," Ugandan Minister of State for Defense Ruth Nankabirwa told Reuters in Kampala. The AU has started investigating the cause of a small fire on one of its planes on Friday and could not rule out whether "negative elements" were behind it, an AU spokesman said. The proposed 8,000-strong AU mission, facing a shortage of money and equipment, is meant to replace Ethiopian forces who have started pulling out of a country where they are viewed by many Somalis as invaders. "Our withdrawal is not contingent to the deployment of the African mission," said Ethiopian Foreign Minister Seyoum Mesfin. "But of course we have to withdraw leaving a situation that would not lead us again into sliding back," he told reporters. Diplomats say the Somali interim government's credibility hinges on pacifying Mogadishu -- one of the world's most gun-infested cities -- and extending its shaky authority over a country deprived of central rule since warlords toppled dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991. There have been 13 unsuccessful attempts to establish a central government since then. (Additional reporting by Tim Cocks in Kampala and Andrew Cawthorne in Mekele, Ethiopia) Source: Reuters, Mar 10, 2007

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: Oh dear, you really need to die soon! Someone forgot his medication again.

Originally posted by Violet: Is having a liver transplant an insult now? Why, yes. According to Mohammed Dheere the issue of Ina Yey's liver transplant is of paramount concern. He's noted to have said, "Ina Yey ma salaami kari, salaadu wuu iga jabiyaa, waayo beer naag baa ugu jiro."

You should restraint yourself, maybe limit yourself to 5 posts per day! For pete sakes you, Hungri, Ibti among others run amuck on some threads. I've seen you guys stretch threads 5/6 pages in a span of hour or so comprising entirely of 1 liners. As rightly pointed this is a discussion forum not a chat room.

^Where was Uncle Yey in '93, '94, '95 all the way till the death of Aidiid?

^Aidiid was a saviour who delivered his people from captivity just like Moses did. Seelanyo isn't fit to fill his shoes but he too was a saviour in his own way. As such both men demand veneration. Calling them "murderer" is sacriliges (more so for a muslim!) and truly deplorable.

Kenyan22, Your original contention -- that Mogadishu was founded by Persians -- has been emphatically disproven. Rather than own up you then launch into this red herring about Swahili presence in Southern Somalia banking on us not noticing. We noticed! Originally posted by KEYNAN22: You do know that the southern half of somalia was a swahili entity and wasn't inhabitated by somali nomads before the 15th century? It would be helpfull if you tell us what you mean by Southern half of Somalia. Does it include the NFD? We are afterall discussing the history of Somalia at a time when there were no clearly defined borders of Somalia. If you mean the area near and around the 2 rivers, than you couldn't be further from truth. There was no Swahili presence in Southern Somalia -- specially in the hinterland -- aside from coastal regions. And even in the coastal regions their presence was minimal at best. Indeed, all the Swahili presence/influence yields today only the names of coastal cities (Kismaayu, Brava, Marka(?), Mogadishu) and few Swahili dialects like Bravanese spoken by exceedingly small groups. There's no evidence for substantial intermixing with local population appearing in the genetic or linguistic makeup of the locals. No cultural infusion suggestive of substantial Swahili contribution. In actuality if you study the overwhelming Somalis living in that region today, you would not find any traceable vestiges of Swahili history. From whence then do we deduce Swahili presence in Southern Somalia? Also, is it true that there were no Somalis in Southern Somalia prior to 1500 AD? Of course not. Linguistic analysis (Fleming, Habarland et al) firmly puts Somalis in that part of the world at least by 500 AD if not earlier. More pertinent to this discusion, there are references of Somali clans -- hence documentation of Somali presence -- for the first time in history by the 13th century arab traveller Ibn Said (1214-87 AD). According to Ibn Said Marka was in the land of a particular Somali clan that still lives in that part of the world. He goes on to mention that the clan lived in 50 or so villiages as well as the landscape describing the Shabelle river in vivid terms. You can even go back a hundred years relying on Al-Idrisi (1100-1166 AD), in the Nuzhat, where he mentions the presence of Somali clans in the same vicinity. Evidently Somalis lived in Southern Somalia at least since 500 AD which discredits your assertion that there were no Somalis in that part of the world prior to 1500 AD.

Originally posted by Taako Man: Socod That's new too me. I know of last septembers Baidoa car bomb. But Galkacyo? You got proof? Motars landed near his staying place, some hotel in Gaalkacyo in July 05. He wasn't the intended target, his sub-subclan were duking it out, but he had close call nonetheless.

Look guys, one a time. You don't wanna scare away your sparing partners. I think you might have just done that with Violet.

Originally posted by nabadshe: (Mohamed Ingiriis is a former associate editor of Ayaamaha newspaper in Mogadishu. He currently reads Philosophy in Belgium) What the heck is "ingriis"? And why is it important to disclose what he's reading in Belgium?

The 4.5 formula makes travesty of proportional representation. No sound minded Somali can support this formula any longer. The case against it is two fold. First, there's this 0.5 business which flies in the face of what the 4.5 formula purports to accomplish -- justice and equality. From strictly moral standpoint, how do you justify with minorities being designated with 0.5 status. It's abominable. Then there is the situation with Puntland. As it stands Puntland is beyond the jurisdiction of TFG. It's president isn't and can't be appointed by the president of the TFG despite the TFG hand picking the leaders of various provinces/Gobols. The SAME subclan that holds the presidency in Puntland is also the same clan holding the presidency in the TFG. Essentially, all of Italian Somaliland is under the presidency of one sub-clan. Obviously, I don't need to expand on why this is unacceptable to other clans.

^Ina Yey was also nearly killed 2 years ago too, in Gaalkacyo, what's your point?

Violet, You're so naive it's almost criminal. Do you think Ugandans aren't racist towards Somalis? What about whites? Asians? Even fellow muslims? Racism is human reality and Somalis are no more racist than any other group. In fact we are quite tolerant, look us tolerating dabodhilifs like your ilk.

^Wake up man! Embrace Islam? Somalis embrace only one thing and that's their clan. Nothing can come between Somali and his clan. Islam comes distant 125. It's been that way for ages, by the look of things now it's going to remain that way for long time to come. Rather than hedge your bets on a far-fetched dream, you should instead work to positively channel Somali's love for his clan.

Originally posted by Taako Man: It's irrelevant that this division comes under 'reer gedo' or 'reer hiiraan' or whatever. All that matters is that they come under no longer tribal militia leaders but under Somalia's national government. It's immensely relevant who commands the said division since this facade of government is predicated on 4.5 clan formula. That permeates through every aspect. Either you religiously adhere to the 4.5 formula or you don't. There's no tolerance for half measures.

General Duke is blindsided by clan hatred. The man is possessed and is beyond all redemption. Laakiin, unless you're also clanist bigot I don't see why you should fashion yourself after him. These sort of incidents happen everywhere there's established authority.

Of course, you're hogging, not to mention wasting, all the bandwidth.

Jacaylbaro, Why are you triple posting a friendly fire incident?