Will we ever have a thread like this one again?

Time to bring some old threads back.

^^^ Almost all the replies on this thread were posted by you! Have you been quarantined, neighbour? Ps Whatever game you’re up to here is not working either. You’re trying too hard. A true snake in the grass would have condemned the Ethiopian invasion. Supported the Courts and excused the TFG blunders. You should have kept up that act for a month, then, in the middle of a regular bland post, you throw a bombshell saying that you’re disappointed to have found out about this Diredaba meeting, etc. Go back and work on your presentations for the coming weeks. A complete makeover is needed.

Originally posted by Thierry.: The fact we had a glimpse of what it would feel like under Islamic rule, and it was beautiful. We Somalis also in Sheikh Shariif saw for the first time since SYL a man worthy of being called a just and fair ruler. They might have been defeated to some degree but this have shown us that Somalia can be united under one banner, that of Islam and Inshallah they will be back sooner rather than later, more wise, experienced and stronger. Asalamu alaikum These are some sweeping generalisations tinged with a bit of wishful thinking, saaxib. How has the Courts shown that Somalia can be united? When? If that were the case then we wouldn’t have had this latest fighting. Take your eyes away from the capital and look around you, saaxib. It seems that not all Somalis were supporting the Courts and that a significant number are rejoicing their defeat. Even here on SOL, we’ve had a considerable number of Nomads openly supporting the TFG and criticising the Courts. What does that say to you? Somalia has never been united under the Courts and is very unlikely to be united under the TFG, until all the tribal hatred, mistrust and plotting is resolved. Everything else is nothing but propaganda and pipedreams.

Now that you dealt with that one, Baashe. I think it’s time you started a thread titled ‘Blame it on the TFG’. If you view this situation in the same way I do (which has been the case for the past month) then surely you too can see the pitfalls that face the TFG now that they’ve won this little war. Will they stay as united as they were whilst fighting the Courts? I doubt it. Will they bring peace and order to Somalia? I double doubt it. Will they finally manage to govern? I’m not a betting man but I’ll still wager that the TFG, as they stand today, are not capable, able or suited for government. What next you ask! As you were, I say. Of course, what I discount here is the Ethiopian dictates, demands and expected rewards for winning this war for the TFG. It was a war after all and, to the victor the spoils. What will the Ethiopians ask for? Ps Some would argue that the Courts would be back. But that’s really neither here nor there now. If the reports about the internal fighting in the capital are to be believed the emergence of the Courts should be regarded as nothing but extra fuel on an already burning fire. It looks like the TFG have finally managed to have ownership of our dying camel. Shame they can’t defeat the vultures in their midst or those approaching from all other directions.

^^ They'll soon try to 'drain the swamp' too

Heh@Silent observer. God save us when you really start to talk

^^^ Usually, I’m against futile protests and demonstrations. But, in this case, I’m all for this rally. It might not change anything but it’s not at all a waste of time here. A protest here is done to show that not ALL Somalis agree with the actions of their own government or the Ethiopian aggression. It informs the rest of the world of our strong feelings against such an aggression and disagreement with ‘our’ government’s decisions. At any rate, this demonstration is more legitimate, has more benefits and is less futile than protesting about Somali citizens being beheaded in Saudi Arabia. Had I known about it earlier, I would have gone.

^^^ You are urinating against the wind there, traitor. Today, it’s all about Ethiopia and how it has invaded our lands. When one is angry, what happens tomorrow does not really matter. It’s all about today.

Heh@Castro

^^ Let us go together to Somalia and fight, dear charlatan. Don't worry, I'll pay for your ticket and the nice sunglasses (so you look good).

Duke, the war is taking place in Somalia not here, saaxib. But you seem to be taking it all a bit much and going down fighting! Somali Friend, Can you go away please and take your friendly fire from Somalia. We Somalis are an ungrateful bunch and though you’re trying to help us, we really are not that impressed with your lovely bombs that are falling on us, neighbour.

Sometimes, I think that people can’t see the wood for the trees! What is all this talk of gorilla warfare as being an acceptable alternative? Has it been successful in Afghanistan or Iraq? Is it not but another stalemate? In my opinion, the worst outcome here would be a gorilla warfare. Might as well bring back the warlords. As for the TFG, love them or hate them, they do wield some power, even though I would concede that they’re Ethiopian puppets. However, I also believe that they have their very own agenda that is separate to that of Ethiopia. For the moment, the Ethiopian project and help seem to suit their purposes. However, the minute they feel that Ethiopia has betrayed them or is not working towards the same goal as theirs, they’ll all suddenly extend those beards and shout ‘tooba tooba’! Those that are part of the TFG are, at best, madmen. Surely they can see the level of hatred and unease (to put it mildly) their cooperation with Ethiopia has created. Surely they’re not blind enough not to notice how people from all over Somalia are condemning such a war and such cooperation! Even if they win, how in the world do they dream of ruling such a people? How do they propose to calm such anger? How do they expect to win the trust, hearts and minds of the people? It’s nigh on impossible (then again, there is nothing impossible about Somali people). Which brings me to my fellow citizen, Lander! Here, the impossible seems to have finally taken place. How can a Somalilander support the Courts against Ethiopia? If I didn’t know any better I would have said it was duplicitous. But, seen how charged the atmosphere is with all these events, I’m certain that, here, emotion rather than logic has taken place. Having said that, maybe this war would be a time of reflection for the people of Somaliland and new ideas will start to spring forward from that part of Somalia. Ideas such as understanding the relationship that republic has with Ethiopia for example. One might be daring enough and wonder if people might even be receptive to having an open and frank discussion about unity with Somalia. Still, that’s a discussion for another day. Today, the only and most important discussion to have is the one about the war. Pick a side, say the angry people. If you’re not with the Courts then you are with the enemy, they accusingly point out. How could you think of analysing anything when the Ethiopian fighter jets are bombarding Somali lands and Ethiopian soldiers are defiling our territory with their illegal invasion, they shockingly plead! Do you really not see that this is the beauty of it all? We are sitting here on a discussion forum. Distant and detached from all the fighting and killing. We are at a liberty to keep our heads and discuss the matter at our own leisure. In fact, and as the first post of this thread shows, we can even be frivolous about it all. It would be the height of madness to try any of this inside Somalia. There, one would be obliged to toe the line. Backs to the wall. All for one and one for all. I might as well borrow from our very own Tolstoy and talk about the Dunkirk spirit for all it’s worth. Pointless accusations, mind reading and anger is not going to get us anywhere. A calm discussion might give us an idea of what will happen next and what sort of Somalia we will have when the dust settles. It’s really your choice though on how you wish you conduct your own discussions. I still believe that an open one is much better than one littered with accusations and counter accusations.

^^ Heh Xaaji, did you forget you are a wadaad now? Drop the clan accusations. That’s yesterday’s game. Today’s game is all about how much of a Muslim you are. Has your research proved that this ‘family’ you speak of are anti Islam? Is it the whole family or just the ‘head’ of that family? Is it possible that you are wrong? Even though my words are wasted on you, but for the benefit of the gallery, I thought I’d have to at least make a comment or two. You claim that Allah is on your side (and he probably is, swt) however, don’t you think it’s wrong of you to behave in such a way when Allah is on your side? Where are your manners? Show some tact and benevolence, you nutcase.

Originally posted by Castro: quote:Originally posted by Baashi: On the other hand, TFG will promise the withdrawal of "front-line states" forces in Somali soil out persuant to UN, AU, US, and Arab League understanding of the UN resolution (I don't remember the numbers). It will recognize the legitimacy of UIC reign over the lands it controls. It will agree to a new power-sharing formula that reflects the realities on the ground. Power sharing? This is the stuff fairy tales are made of. Unfortunately, awoowe, before any gathering at a table occurs, the Ethiopians will rush to grab as much land as possible. If and when they reach the negotiating table, the TFG can claim they control x, y and z areas and thus have no incentive to concede much. Remember the days before Israel and Hizbollah agreed to a ceasefire? The Israelis made a significant push to grab as much land as possible. Somalia may be a little different as the defenses, financing, and the equipment of Hizbollah are missing. The ideal time to negotiate is when there's a stalemate. There will be no stalemate here in the short term. The Ethiopians will reach Kismaayo and be there for a few months before supply line problems, troop fatigue, an insurgency and other logistical cracks begin to appear in their armor. What is really at stake here? Hasn’t Somali politics been nothing but the prettiest, saddest and most unbelievable fairy tale, saaxib? It was only few months ago when the president and the speaker didn’t see eye to eye and threats were spat out on a daily bases. It was only a few short months ago when the warlords and the president were the best of enemies. Look at them now! It’s all snakes and ladders. Never give up on the Somali politicians ability to shock and confound all observers, saaxib. I agree with SW that it’s a stalemate but I also agree with Baashe that the only way out is a ceasefire. In fact, I’ll go further than that and say that a ceasefire is the only outcome. None of the three sides in this conflict can keep it going indefinitely. And, none can win outright. Of course, every side would try to paint a small one as being a total victory but I know and you know that this is nigh on impossible. Which leaves us with the only and obvious outcome, a ceasefire. It will come saaxib lets just hope it happens soon.

His claim is to the world and is hardly useful to any reading Somalis. He magnifies the threats of the Courts (beheading, oppression of women, etc) and downplays Ethiopia’s interference in Somalia. In fact, downplay is a soft word to use here, he actually seems to be in total support of such interference! Of course, as ever, he eloquently presents his ideas but the almost all his ‘facts’ are suspect and could be easily challenged. Still, I really blame the Courts for this. Their silence on these issues is what allows Bashir and his ilk to claim ownership of the truth.

Heh. There he goes bringing Somaliland into it. You've got to love Bashir's patriotism.

Heh@Cara

A very good and sensible article. Sadly, neither of the warring parties is likely to be a ‘reader’ of that site. Ps I’m not very familiar with Somali news sites. Who does that site usually support? Surely they’re not as neutral as they sound here (not that I’m taking anything away from their noble and helpful message there).

Jimaacle, I take no responsibility for your inability to read, saaxib. But, just for the record (though it’s really pointless) when I mock, I don’t mock Islam the faith but I mock the deluded types of Muslims. There is a big difference between the two, if only you can see it. If it were the clothes that made the men I’d be wearing a general’s outfit by now. So, I humbly request that when you read any future posts written by me you try to read them in that context and don’t let your mind wickedly stray. Caaqil, First let me make a clarification here, I’ve always had a bone to pick with Somaliland (Puntland does not count, for obvious reasons). My fellow Somaliland citizens have bored the hell out of anyone that will listen about the security and peace that place has and used it as the main thing to prove that the country should receive its recognition! I never thought that was enough then and I still don’t now. Bringing peace is good but once it’s there something more tangible has to follow. The Courts, sadly, have not come up with any solid plans or feasible strategies to take Somalia forward. Again, cleaning streets, banning Qaat and the other things they’ve done are merely administrative achievements that can easily be ruined if the political actions to support them are not good enough. Secondly, lets turn our attention to the Ethiopian monster that suddenly raised its ugly head in the midst of Somali political life! Has it really though? Has Ethiopia not been there throughout the past sixteen years? Have they not been backing one side over the other in all that time? Sometimes, ironically enough, they’ve even backed two opposing sides. Ethiopia is not a new sudden enemy. Ethiopia has always been there conducting its proxy war to further it’s own political interests in Somalia. A Courts movement that is only months old should NEVER have picked this fight with Ethiopia at this point in time. It’s a costly, pointless and an un-winnable fight. And from where I’m sitting, the only group standing to lose will be the Courts. In another post of yours you talk about a fight between two sides. The Somalis (represented by the Courts) and Ethiopia! If only things were that simple, saaxib. In fact, if that were the case, you probably would not have heard a single questioning voice in this site or anywhere else. But things are not that simple, are they? Why do you easily discount the TFG in such a way? Why discount Puntland? Fine. Lets us follow your way of thinking and try to see out this war to your wished for end. So, let us say that the Courts have prevailed and defeated the TFG (Ethiopia). Those in the TFG run away out of the country, are killed or (more likely) run to their original areas of Somalia. Now, lets narrow things a little and talk about the president and his Puntland supporters. Will he (and they) give in and submit to the Courts or will they, obviously, turn it into a tribal war and start scaremongering the people of Puntland about this southern tribe that is coming to subjugate their women and children and loot their houses? Is such a scenario really that farfetched, saaxib? It is more than obvious that Ethiopia does not have Somalia’s interests at heart (to put things mildly). It’s also clear that it will need to be dealt with sooner or later (politically or militarily). However, NOW, is really not the time to tackle Ethiopia. I’m not a supporter of the Courts and can not be until I see a genuine effort from them to show that they mean well and are really aiming to rescue Somalia. Of course, because they’ve taken on the Islamic garb, one that tugs at my heart strings and is what I wish for as a Muslim, I’m more than obliged to put aside my cynical nature and hope beyond hope that their intentions are right and their (hidden) plans are successful. However, as things stand and judging by their actions so far, I can’t help but be disappointed. Full unequivocal support requires more than simple proclamations of Jihad and the cleaning of the streets of the capital, saaxib. If you accept these meagre offerings then I truly believe that you are letting yourself down (regardless of whether the Courts eventually prevail or not). It is not about what you feel, it’s about what your eyes can see, ears can hear and logic understands. So far, the Courts have given us nothing but rhetoric. For the time being, I’ll extend them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they’re not that experienced when it comes to politics. Ps If you notice that I have not criticised the TFG in my replies it is because I truly believe that in peaceful times they really do not matter that much. If the Courts play it safe and go for negotiation, reconciliation and peace, the overwhelming majority of Somalis will (sooner or later) start to fully support them, rendering the TFG null and void. However, in war, the TFG acquires a significance that it does not really deserve and WILL receive tribal backing just because the Courts were the aggressors in this instance. Try to remove yourself from the narrow horizons of a war between Somalis and Ethiopians and maybe, just maybe, you will be able to see the big and ugly picture.

SB is praising Islam? Wonders never cease.

What a priceless title for this thread! What about the people you ask! The people will continue to be trod on, killed, made homeless and humiliated in the same way they’ve been in the past sixteen years. Nothing changed here but the location and the identity of the troublemakers. I personally don’t trust the TFG and have my doubts about their ability to bring peace to Somalia. On the other hand, like Baashe, I have strong doubts about the wisdom of the Courts. I’ve said this before and I’ll repeat it here again. Bringing peace to the capital and surrounding areas is NOT enough. Shouting Islamic slogans whilst letting loose the dogs of war is also not enough. For me (and any sensible unemotional person) to give my full support to the Courts they will have to present a clear, acceptable and workable strategy for saving Somalia. When the first step in that strategy is to conduct war, my optimism about the genuine intentions of these Courts starts to seep away. For if you have the upper hand, have most of the Somali nation behind you (and I’m including many in Somaliland and Puntland here) yet still want to conduct war, a little ugly devil starts whispering in my ears that these ICU mullahs are only interested in war and power and not peace or reconciliation. On another note, I still never cease to be amazed by the duplicity of some of the opinions in here! I could never reconcile it in my mind how people on the one hand get angry about Ethiopian soldiers killing Somali soldiers yet never get angry about Somalis and Ethiopians killing innocent Somalis. Surely you’re either against all forms of murder or you’re not. Is the idea of being Somali bigger to you than the death of the innocents? Why then do you want to be Somali if you simply regard the death of your fellow Somalis as ‘the birth pangs’ of a new Somali republic? And, who are you to sacrifice their lives for this bogus, pointless and silly concept? Ethiopia might be the enemy for some. For me, Ethiopia is irrelevant. My enemy is your uncle, aunt and brother. It does not matter to me if he’s a member of the TFG or the Courts. If civilians are dying because of his rash, ambitious and destructive actions then I spit on him and all those that support him. If you sense anger in my words then you’re not really wrong. I’m angry at the ignorance being displayed by almost all Somalis. Angry at the people that have decided to claim the Islamic faith for themselves yet are not treading carefully and not treating that heavy burden with the respect it deserves. Angry at the pointless ministers, presidents and soldiers that are causing more death and ruin for a goal that will never be fulfilled and an end that will never be reached. The whole thing points to a clear and unsurprising stalemate, a stalemate that both sides will fight hard and cause so many deaths to reach. Today, this whole issue is really beyond discussing. Best wait for the bravado and the deafening din of the cyber warriors to die down before one attempts any sort of rational analysis of this sad situation.

When I read this man’s poems I always get his point but poetry is not about getting the point. It’s about the way the point is delivered and the beauty of the words. Failing all that, he could have at least stuck to the basics and made the whole damn thing rhyme! From an artistic point of view alone I think I’ll add my shouts to those asking him to Go Away.

^^ Why do pretty girls use makeup?

People live, people die and life goes on. Today though, Somaliland should have gone beyond weeping about the harms done to it and moved on into cementing its sovereignty and nationhood. I believe many people belonging to that entity are doing their best to realise this dream. I don’t believe that those in government (or opposition) are doing enough. It’s all about recognition, recognition, recognition. Leave the mass graves to the South for now. And god knows that we might hear about many such graves being dug in the coming days. Though my words may not be as explicit I think I finally found a point where I agree with Lander (Ayuub will be so proud).