^^ Like with dogs, the huge ones never scare me. It's always the small ones that catch you by surprise. Same with ugly unreasonable snakes.

Originally posted by Legend of Zu: I don't know about this Garaad business...But I tell you this Val is too xaax for MKA (not that I am taking anything from the brotha). May be Ngonge? Cheers As Delboy would say, Au contraire mon ami! I think those two are made for each other, saaxib. He changes his politics at a drop of a hat and she probably won’t be called Val for long (rendering this thread title pointless).

** Throws his underwear at MKA in excitement and support ** caleek caleek...

^^^ How did you find out it was a female jinn? Was it the 'three strikes' and you're out method?

^^^ Have you ever come face to face with a snake? Have any of the people here? By the way, half of you can't even speak Somali and don't know the simple names of animals. What a shame.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: quote:Originally posted by NGONGE: I may or may not agree with her stance. But this is not about her. This is about Muslim women working as police officers. Why are you refusing to see this as a valid discussion? Actually, I think it’s a must discussion. NGONGE , To be honest, I don’t have a very strong argument for a Muslim woman working as a police officer. Neither do I have any solid objections against her doing so. So I am left to fish for other people’s weak arguments and shoot it down yaa old man! Fair enough. However, I don’t think I’ve presented an argument yet. All I’ve done so far was ask questions (albeit pregnant ones)! I try not to repeat myself but find that I’m forced to do so at every turn (in these discussions). So, let me repeat that I have no personal problem with the sister herself. As I’ve already said, I really don’t know her or know anything about her background. This is merely an issue that made the news and I feel it’s worth a discussion. We all live in the West and we are (as far as I know) all Muslim. When a story about a fellow Muslim breaks out it stands to reason that we would discuss it. However, what spoils these discussions is when you get some people (like yourself and Kashafa) who take it all to heart and decide to defend blindly without explaining in a logical way why they think this choice is better than that. It needn’t be confrontational all the time, saaxib. Again, this is not a personal attack on the sister. This is about how the actions of one impact on the many. Now, again readers, before you jump the gun once more: Her actions may have a good or bad impact. These ( I feel) are what this discussion should be about. Not, the argument that Northerner presented for example: about it being between her and her creator, etc (it is stating the obvious, wouldn’t you say?). I really hope the above was crystal clear and we wouldn’t go back into petty arguments and squabbles over it. It is really tiring to hover around a topic without ever getting to really tackle it head on. Now, on the topic itself. Just for Kashafa’s sake, lets assume that this sister is a policewoman, doctor, nurse and army soldier all at the same time. She chooses this profession then refuses to do a certain part of her job because it clashes with her faith. You with me so far? Ok, you may say that she’s within her right to do so (and I fully agree). However, will her choice have a favourable impact on the Muslim minorities in the West (I’m using this term because I realise not all of us live in the UK) or will it have disastrous consequences? My own initial conclusion is that, in the current atmosphere of everything anti-Islam her story and actions are more likely to be the latter than the former. However, as I already said in my earlier posts I’m ready to hear arguments to the contrary. Without wishing to patronise you by stating the obvious, isn’t that the whole point of having a discussion? Ps I’m reasonable and logical enough to switch to the other side and present arguments supporting this action too but, either way, I’d first need to see an argument worth dealing with. Any takers?

I went to the Zoo today and tried to work on my phobias. Then a bloody snake looked me straight in the eye and stuck its tongue at me! ugly little things. ps I've looked at the lions and tigers long and hard. I'm now convinced that should I come face to face with a lion in the middle of the road I could easily defeat it (well, at a loss of an arm or a leg at least). I'm not sure I could stand still in the face of the smallest snake though. pps Those telling me Somalia does not need me are only brave enough to say that because I allowed them to see the one chink in my armour. Pipe down and know your places boys, don't make me slap you about like I just did the lion in my dream. The bloody cheek!

Somalia has many very poisonous snakes including the boomslang, the twig snake, cobras (including a cobra that spits venom at the eyes), puff adders, mambas, vipers and Anhtinou's blacksnake. Without treatment, a snake bite can be rapidly fatal. Many snakes are well camouflaged and few give "warning signals". The ocean along the Somali coast has highly poisonous sea snakes which will bite swimmers. There are numerous poisonous centipedes, scorpions and spiders, including black widow spiders and tarantulas in Somalia. The effect of their poisons can range from severe pain and ulceration of skin and muscle to rapid death. These small and inconspicuous creatures are likely to be encountered around buildings, tents and bunkers. In addition, the coastal waters contain poisonous jellyfish and sea urchins. Source This is why I've never been and shall never go.

Originally posted by Northerner: ^^Is it not time for your annual trip to UAE? I think youve been 'told' that you cant go no? I've already booked the time off in Easter. Was planning to go to Syria, Egypt and Lebanon this time. But now that the time is getting closer I’m tempted to ditch it all and come to the UAE again. Ps The powers that be hate long haul travel. So it will be a weekend in Euro Disney or a week in Europe to keep them (all) sweet. Pps Oi, Aussis, our Val is only coming to your bottom of the earth of a place because she has to visit family and what not. Bloody presumptuous convicts.

^^^ What do you pick and choose? From an Islamic point of view I mean. And, when you pick and choose, do you do it willingly with a pinch of guilt or do it feeling that you’re doing the right thing?

In principle, is it permissible for a female to be a police officer? Yes. Is it permissible for a Muslim female to walk around the city, police officer or not, without a mahram? Yes! Why then would you, yaa NGONGE, fetch these matters and present them as real issues that warrant a further discussion? The sister, my good brother, chose to be a police officer and she wants to serve her community in that capacity. Apparently that is the career she wants to have. Whether she did her homework and thought through all the risks involved in her chosen profession is a matter we know not. Frankly it’s immaterial to know to pass a judgment on her reported stance. I found it very funny that you chose to comment on the edges of this story instead of sharing your two cents about her distinguished resolve! Xiin, When I start such threads I don’t do so to criticise the individual concerned. I do it to highlight an issue, incident or situation and hopefully look at its impact on the local Muslim Community. As for the permissibility or otherwise, I admit that I was pretty hasty in there and, as a result, opened up a door for a whole lot of new arguments and digression. For that at least and to focus on my main point, I’ll accept your stance on this. This lady does not really matter. We don’t know her name, what she looks like or what police station she’ll be serving at. For me to congratulate her on her ‘resolve’ would mean that I fully agree with her chosen profession and her stance in this situation! Are you keeping up with me here? I may or may not agree with her stance. But this is not about her. This is about Muslim women working as police officers. Why are you refusing to see this as a valid discussion? Actually, I think it’s a must discussion.

^^^ The world? I've never heard the good people of Bolivia say one single bad word about Islam.

^^^ I thought they opened that place while you were out of the country. I hardly ever go there though. I prefer my local

Xiin, It’s the question I’ve asked from the day the Courts came on the scene as a political power and I still ask now that they’re no more, what were their political plans (other than the vague idea of Islamic law)? This is what many that questioned them at the time (leaving aside the TFG and their supporters) wanted and needed to know. This was the real reason for the downfall of the Courts. As administrators they were great and the achievements you list above were all mere administrative achievements, the stuff that civil servants would do really! But as politicians the subsequent events have proved them wanting. Even today, we are all still non the wiser as to the Courts’ political stances, manifestos and strategies. They lost because they refused to play the political games in a new environment of political intrigue and interference (Arabs, Americans, Africans, etc). Still, in all seriousness and without wishing to hijack your topic, arguing over spilt milk is not very conducive here. The real question worth asking is if this defeat of the Courts will have any adverse effects on future Islamic political movements in Somalia! Will they rise again or will people ignore them and compare them to the boy that cried wolf? From having discussions with many die hard Courts’ supporters in the past I’ve come to realise that not many of them would attribute any blame for this defeat to the Courts themselves and would rather choose to waffle on about American interference, Ethiopian intervention and TFG betrayal instead! All of which (if true) will naturally return should a new Islamic movement returns. So, where does this leave us and how could we achieve the goal of having a Somalia that is ruled by Islam (assuming that the support of the Courts was for Islamic reasons rather than clannish ones)? What strategies, positions and compromises would a new movement have to make in order to remain in and have power? These questions, sadly, don't only apply to Somalia. They apply to every Muslim country that wishs to be run along the lines of Allah's laws.

^^^ Or just don't bother going to that upside down place, saaxib.

^^^ In this case it seems it is. Someone, knowing how charged the atmosphere already is, decided to pass this story to the media! On the case of this lady, it's not that she's dumb, it's really to do with current Muslim attitudes in the UK. There is a problem with wanting one's rights and reconciling it with common sense. The state claims to offer equal opportunities for all and that it does not discriminate on the basis of faith, colour, gender or disability. This rule allows all to apply for jobs they might not be (practically) suitable for. However, since the law equality exists, from a legal point of view (I would assume) there is nothing wrong with this lady applying to become a policewoman and expecting her employers to find ways to accommodate her needs. Surely if a disabled person applied for the same job (providing that the job advert did not specify only able-bodied applicants) he/she too would demand and receive a suitable bending of the rules! Still, I strongly (as things stand) believe that common sense should prevail and that many of our brothers and sisters go for the confrontational route in many of these jobs when knowing full well that they clash with many of the religious rules they adhere to! Still, the vast majority are usually not even aware of such a clash and have convinced themselves that what they ask for are normal and understandable demands! To me and you, they probably are but to the majority of those you will be serving they’re far from reasonable or understandable (and even then, they would still refuse to understand). It’s like banging one’s head against a solid wall. Still, I don’t think the sister is dumb. I think she, like many others, are carried along by the whirlwind of multiculturalism and the current (obligatory) Islamic postures of defiance!

^^^ I don't think she was publcity-seeking. She did not stand in front of her boss and refuse to shake his hands (as the article clearly explains). She told them in advance that there will be a problem. It's the Muslim haters that decided to turn this into a news story. I don't for a minute doubt her honesty and desire to do well but I question her logic, that's all.

** Pushes glasses back with index finger ** ** Pushes chair back and stands up ** Actually, you'll find that we are talking about Hezbollah here not Hamas or the ICU :cool: ps I got you CG, I'm just playing here.

Who did you defeat?

^^^ That's fighting talk that is! I thought you wanted peace, saaxib

^^^ Xiin, It’s nice for one to support his Muslims brothers and sisters in everything they do. However, have you given this matter some thought? Does it not strike you as a case of unwitting duplicity? The police sister is within her rights not to shake the commissioners hands. She’s Muslim and her faith forbids her from shaking the hand of a stranger. Yet, doesn’t her faith also forbid her from strolling the streets without a mahram? In addition, the police the in the UK (and most other parts of the world) walk the streets in twos! Will she demand that her ‘partner’ be a female? Surely a service like the police and the army is built on discipline and the acceptance of your superiors orders, where does that leave our sister? Again, I’m sure if you’ve given this matter more thought, you will think up a dozen situations and incidents that this sister will face in her line of work (she does not work in an office after all) that will clash with hr beliefs and her ability to do the job to the full! Do you think she thought of all of that before she decided to apply for a job with the police? This is not about criticising for the sake of criticising, this is about common sense. And in the case of this sister (subject to consequent arguments on this thread of course) it all strikes me as a bit petty and duplicitous for her to first, apply for a job as a policewoman and, second, think that the biggest problem she’ll face is the shaking the hand of her superior in a graduation ceremony! It’s either you were hasty with your bravo or you have a very strong argument in support of the sister’s chosen profession!

Heh@Zafir True. Val is too Somali. If I walked right past her she'll probably fire a shoe at me (those eight-inch stilettos are deadly you know). ps Someone else is using the same avatar as you and it's confusing the hell out of me.

^^ You're just fishing for a compliment now. Anyway, if it were Val standing outside with the ticket and flowers it would indeed have been a different story. I would have done the impossible just to make it there, walk right past here and buy my own ticket.

Daniel McGory Strict beliefs crub contact with men Commissioner said to be incensed Scotland Yard is at the centre of a new dispute over religious customs clashing with professional duties after a Muslim woman police cadet refused to shake hands with Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner. The incident happened at a recent graduation ceremony where Sir Ian was inspecting a passing-out parade of 200 new recruits. The woman, who has not been named, told officers just before the ceremony began that her strict Muslim beliefs meant that she could not exchange the traditional congratulatory handshake with the commissioner. She also refused to be photograped with Sir Ian, reportedly claiming that she did not want the image to be used for “propaganda purposes” as the Yard endeavours to recruit more female Muslim officers. Sir Ian was said to be incensed when told of the woman’s refusal. Training officers told the commissioner that they had “reluctantly agreed” with her request as they did not want to cancel or disrupt the ceremony at the Yard’s sports and conference centre at Thames Ditton, Surrey, last month. The parade was attended by hundreds of family and friends of recruits who had completed their 18-week basic training. One senior police source said: “This had never happened before and there are serious issues at stake. There is an inquiry into the matter.” The woman took part in the parade wearing a hijab, explaining that her faith dictates that she must not take shake hands with or kiss a man other than her father and close relative. She assured training staff that her religious code would not prevent her arresting a man.The woman is understood to have begun patrol duties in West London as part of her two-year probation period while superiors assess her suitability for the job. A Scotland Yard spokesman said: “This request was only granted by members of training staff out of a desire to minimise any disruption to other’s enjoyment, and to ensure the smooth running of what is one of the most important events in an officer’s career. The commissioner did question the validity of this request, and the matter is being looked into. “The officer maintains that she puts the requirements of being a police officer above her personal beliefs and only exercises the latter when she has choice to do so.” The Yard has allowed women officers to wear an adaptation of the hijab as part of their uniform since 2001. Commanders have been trying to recruit more Muslims but there are still only 300 among the Met’s 35,000 officers. Fewer than 20 are women. The Yard faced controversy last year when a Muslim officer was excused from guarding the Israeli Embassy at the height of the conflict in Lebanon. PC Alexander Omar Basha was moved to other duties after claiming that he was afraid his Lebanese relatives could be targeted if he were seen on TV. Tahir Butt, spokesman for the Association of Muslim Police, supported the woman’s behaviour. “The actions demonstrate strength of character, challenge social norms and educate others as to the diverse practices of communities of London,” he said. Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said that the public should not be alarmed by the officer’s beliefs. He said: “If she is called to a male victim who has been shot, the laws go out of the window. Muslim law will say, ‘Forget everything, save this life’.” Source

^^^ What's your signature about? I've been reading it for week and it makes no sense to me! Something is missing. A line, a sentence, a bloody setting..