lama arag haweenay ninkeeda u wanaagsan oo baariyad u ah oo isaguna uu xumaynayo ........waxaase la arkaa inta badan nin wanaagsan oo ay xaaskiisu xumayso ooysan u wanaagsanayn Runtii?

Nur, Your "apology" here is more in the line of "Sorry I don't knew you guys would be so sensitive and irrational", than a real apology. Or perhaps you are apologizing that you did not "polish" your idea better before introducing it (a mind-boggling idea in itself). The thing is, no one asked you to apologise, just to defend your position as any other forummer would be expected to. It's understandable if you weren't available to do so, creating a momentum against your views. You also weren't lynched, far from it. You had a lot more defenders than detractors, and I think the defenders did more to create a "situation" than a couple of sardonic comments warranted. The martyr complex is not flattering either. Naturally it's not pleasant to be the object of ridicule, and I too wish some hadn't attacked you personally, but you are not some archetypal representation of Good, and no sacrifice is ever selfless when one hopes for an eternal reward.

I can only imagine this is one of those nonsequitur "jokes", like: Knock knock Who's there? Pizza. Oh thanks, here's the cash.

Anyone who possesses two brain cells huddled for warmth can tell this is a joke. An over-long one.

It's a disgrace. That is the actions of people who have never known legitimate statehood, who think the law can be used as a indiscriminate club to strike out in vengeance. The new "1984"-esque political landscape is perfectly suited to their mentality.

The scary thing about the bird flu is that it hits healthy people hardest. Used to be the flu was the bane of children, the immunecompromised, and the elderly. But the new virus is so virulent that it causes one's immune system to over-react, posing a particular hazard for people with well-developed immunity to disease. A disease epi- or pandemic that targets young healthy people is catastrophic everywhere, but the damage it would do to some African countries could be horrendous, seeing as how the workforce is already decimated by AIDS. On a personal note, I'm not particularly concerned, because I'm a 64 year old diabetic on a pacemaker.

Incidentally, I have been reading with some amusement how this discussion went from discussing neocon media savvy to addressing the problem of the shadowy Jewish cabal that has apparently controlled all of human history. This extremely cohesive group has helmed such seemingly disparate movements as Communism and Capitalism, Anarchism and Fascism, Secularism andTheocracy. And then someone clinched the whole deal by providing a link to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion! Gee, to think: The Jews forced Gore to partner with Joe Lieberman, a Jew, knowing he'll lose to Bush-Cheney, who were in fact controlled by Jews! It's like fractals, isn't it?

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Calypso , neacons don’t necessarily share conservative values (social ones) you just listed. Theirs is an ad hoc conservatism that’s intended to expediently deliver foreign policy objectives. Muslims support for Bush in 2000 had to do more with the fact that Al Gore chose a Jew as a running-mate than falling for conservative propaganda, I think. No doubt. But the message was coached in terms of the un-Islamic nature of the Democratic candidates' position (at least in my neck of the woods), and I find it hard to believe that this was not at least partly sincere. It doesn't matter if the neocons are faking social mores they don't share with the Religious Right, all that matters is that is that they deliver, no? From appointing conservative Supreme Court judges to siding with the ****** who want Creationism taught in Science classes, so long as the Neocons feel it necessary to occasionally appease their chosen electorate, what matters their real beliefs? They are politicians, aren't they? But you’re right the fact we Muslims are Republican by values (social value, not all of the ones they sell to us though) while we vote Democrat by default poses a challenging political dilemma. Muslims are a special interest group much like any other. They will vote for whomever they think will best serve their interests. In 2000, this seemed to be Bush-Cheney, because neither was a Jew and because they seemed to advocate "family values" that were more in sync with popular Muslim sentiment (such as a distaste for gay rights and abortion). In 2004 I'm sure more Muslims voted for Kerry-Edwards than not because neither was a Jew and because they weren't advocating waging war on Muslim countries. For instance, last election I settled for the convenience of less-than-two-evils proposition and voted for Kerry ! An informal poll indicates that that is what most Muslims did. Those that bothered to vote, anyway. I find few who voted for the incumbent. I even ignored the fatwa from my Shiekh! My Sheikh was suitably chagrined over the bad political advice he gave in 2000. He was not so foolish as to repeat the same mistake and involve himself in Kafir political machinations.

I really hope this is a joke. It has to be. A very funny joke. "There are no respawns in RL". Kax kax kax.

Khayr, Evolution makes a 'suggestion' i.e. We come from a single organism and basis it on 'assumptions' that continue to have gaps in them but the 'fact' that darwin and his followers 'admit to these gaps', strengthen its agruments. Is that right JB? Not quite. Evolutionary Theory is a scientific theory. It makes predictions and posits relationships. Thus it can be falsified. Darwin specifically listed conditions under which evolutionary theory can be proven to be wrong. Irreducible complexity is one of them. So far, there is not one single case of irreducible complexity in nature. Not one. Incidentally, Darwin also listed other ways that the theory of evolution can be disproven: The gaps in the fossil records. In 1860s, there just weren't that many fossils, and Darwin pointed this out as a weakness of his theory. But today we have many, many more fossils that not only fill in the gaps, but that also create new ideas about how life evolved. But Creationists still cling to the "gaps in the fossil record" as a argument against Natural Selection, as if the last 150 did not happen. The truth is the Creationists could not attack the theory of evolution on a scientific basis, so they changed their tactics and renamed their stance Intelligent Design and came at science from the political front. Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory. It rests entirely on critiquing the theory of evolution, but its proponents don't come up with their own SCIENTIFIC explanation of how life originated. A theory which says to every inquiry "God did it", which does not yield results and does not list conditions under wich it can be tested, is not a scientific theory. End of story. Just give one example of a situation where ID proponents would concede that ID has been falsified. Just one. You and I both know no such situation exists because those who push ID have unquestioning faith in its veracity.

Good luck, sis. But how is this a debate? Though I don't for a minute doubt someone will find a way to turn it into one.

Originally posted by Johnny B: You see Cally,It ain´t easy raionalizing an irrational act. No it's not. I don't kid myself in my support of capital punishment by claiming it's a logical or moral act. But sometimes one is seduced by the argument from expediency. Personally, I think the scenario I would go with would be mass murder or sadistic pedophilia, and only if I witnessed the crime or had other irrefutable proof. But I would also pull the trigger, not be squeamish and demand the state kill for me.

^Just reading between the lines. So... why do you hate women?

Seems like a lot of people are coming to Nur's defense on the grounds that he is somehow a different breed from all the other SOLers. That he deserves a special kind of respect. Isn't that precisely why he should be held to a higher standard?

Alle-Ubaahne, this seems more like a subtle (haha) attempt to bash modern women than a honest appreciation of female beauty. Are women so frightening to you that you take refuge in dreaming about the perfection of the women of yore?

Hi Castro, It is important, though, to keep in mind mercy and compassion on the victims and their families is often neglected when years have passed and the inmate is ready to be put to death. When there's no doubt, gas the murderer within a year and get it over with. There is always doubt. If you make a mistake, you can't exactly bring someone back to life and release them with an apology.

^ What would it take JB?

^ I would rather have Mudul/Cariish in the midst of Some where in Somalia... No you wouldn't.

I like how everyone here is shaking their heads morosely at the ignorance and blindness of Joe Sixpack, when Muslims were equally duped by the neo-con media. I remember how every major Muslim organization threw their support behind Bush-Cheney 2000 on the basis of the very conservative values that you are all now excoriating. Muslims supported the Religious Right when it came to gay marriage, secularism, women's reproductive rights, etc. Yet they ignored that every one of these issues have to due with civil liberties, which Muslims are only now treasuring as they are taken away. How, as a special interest group, should Muslims balance their support for ultra-conservative social values against their opposition to ultra-conservative political values?

The link doesn't seem to work.

The turtles are lovely, and so is this one: http://gallery.somali-info.com/magicgallery/72901063GVQTvm_ph.jpg

What you need to do is collect money to hire a good lawyer (who knows, CAIR or ISNA might even provide one) who will contact the media to question his arrest, as well as his continued detention, if they are as shady as the seem. Sometimes public embarrasment moves the feds better than appeals to justice.

Hi Castro, I'm all for capital punishment (whether it's proven to work as a deterrent or not). In theory, so am I. I just don't for a minute believe that life in prison is sufficient time for the truth to come out. How can there be time for the truth to come out, if one is sentenced to death? Not to mention that the truth has a nasty habit of hiding when the defendent is Black and/or poor. At the same time, at least in the US, Blacks are more likely to receive death sentences than whites. Blacks are also more like to be found guilty, period. They are denied appeals. In other words, the process from arresting a suspect to pulling the switch is incredibly flawed. To me, that's enough evidence to put death sentences on a moratorium. If we could get all the kinks out, and one could devise a fail-proof method of determining guilt, I wouldn't object, but anything short of that is a terrible joke. Not to borrow anything from Kashafa, but if someone hurt my children on purpose, I will kill them and look in their eyes while doing it. So would I, but that actually has nothing to do with death sentences. You are talking here about taking the law into your own hands, which is understandable but hardly approved by the state. In your case, there'd be a trial, and since you're black, you'd probably receive a harsh sentence, especially if you killed a white man. Go figure.

LOL. I received an e-mail written by a "Somali spammer". The email content was very similar: the young man was the son of a bigwig in the previous administration, he wanted help accessing the millions of dough his dad hid in a Swiss bank account, for a small fee to cover necessary paperwork, I would get a substantive share of the loot, etc. Very weird, especially the bit where the young man says he fled to Ethiopia when the civil war broke out. Either these spammers really do their research, or they've got a Somali on retainer.

Torgemen said El Khamsa planned to appeal and to file suit for what she contends is a discriminatory, racist and sexist decision. D*mn right.