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Somali girl rebels against Hijab, throws it in the snow

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Safferz   

Apophis;989044 wrote:
At Hawdian:

 

 

At Hawdian....again:

 

 

At Classified:

 

 

At Khayr:

 

 

At Africaown:

 

 

Yeah....

I was clear in my post that I respond in kind, to you, to Hawdian, to Classified, to anyone else. I also have more than a few people blocked in PMs due to the same harassment in PMs. You of all people should know this, since you apologized for the insults quite recently and I accepted that and moved on. I don't have the time to dig up the comments I was replying to there or the types of comments I reply to from you folks on a daily basis, but whoever is interested is free to browse their posting histories or click the blue icon next to each out of context quote Apophis posted to see what I was referring to. I don't apologize for defending myself and responding to rudeness with rudeness.

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Apophis   

Safferz;989059 wrote:
I was clear in my post that I respond in kind, to you, to Hawdian, to Classified, to anyone else. I also have more than a few people blocked in PMs due to the same harassment in PMs. You of all people should know this, since you apologized for the insults quite recently and I accepted that and moved on. I don't have the time to dig up the comments I was replying to there or the types of comments I reply to from you folks on a daily basis, but whoever is interested is free to browse their posting histories or click the blue icon next to each out of context quote Apophis posted to see what I was referring to. I don't apologize for defending myself and responding to rudeness with rudeness.

I harassed you in PMs? I must have done it while sleep trolling.

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Saff,

 

I understand your point. Some of us are talking about "what should be" while you're addressing "what is." I also agree that "what is" is not acceptable. The moral and religious worth of an individual should not be reduced to a piece of cloth or the length of one's beard. The correct test is Taqwa and Allah (sw) knows best what is in the hearts.

 

However, I do not really follow what you're saying. So let me put it in the form of a question for sake of clarification.

 

Do you believe that the xijaab is an Islamically ordained modest dress for all individuals? If so, do you believe that it has been used to oppress and abuse women? If so, do you believe that an Islamically sanctioned societal practice should be abandoned in order to prevent this abuse?

 

OR

 

Do you believe that the xijaab is an optional form of "modest" dress?

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Guje   

magicbird;989041 wrote:
Haven't seen the video, but I can tell this child needs dhaqan celis. As for what she said about being Norwegian,
Somalis need to understand that there'll always be just a scummy Somali
. It doesn't matter how much you whitewash yourself, call yourself Ozzy or Mo, 'integrate' as much as you like, take off the hijab, adopt their liberal ways, they'll never 'see' or even notice you. As it states in the quran 'And the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you, until you follow their religion.' Even then you'll never be their equal, and you'll always be remembered as the person with no principles.

And the other thing is nowadays hijab is basically just like an cimaamad. Hijab is meant to be for the whole body, so you could say some other girls ruined it for this one.

BS, you need your teeth knocked out for this grave insult. shame on you.

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Hawdian   

AfricaOwn;989047 wrote:
^^Sometimes I wonder if these obnoxious characters are like that in person or do they only feel empowered behind their cpu screen - is pathetic really.

+1

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Iran and Saudi Arabia r oppressive regimes.There be much less niqab when people free and on their own will,just look at any muslim country that's not dictatorial.I been to few towns in Somaliland couple times last 10 yrs and to my surprise found out that niqab is disappearing.Also every women with niqab is not what you thought.Lot thm put on when they going to chat session or have date.It should be personal.

Kulu nafsi bimaa kasabat rahiintu.

Niqab surfaced last plus 20yrs among Somalis and already back to square one .Were we muslims before the niqab, i.e 1980!?

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Iran and Saudi Arabia r oppressive regimes.There be much less niqab when people free and on their own will,just look at any muslim country that's not dictatorial.I been to few towns in Somaliland couple times last 10 yrs and to my surprise found out that niqab is disappearing.Also every women with niqab is not what you thought.Lot thm put on when they going to chat session or have date.It should be personal.

Kulu nafsi bimaa kasabat rahiintu.

Niqab surfaced last plus 20yrs among Somalis and already back to square one .Were we muslims before the niqab, i.e 1980!?

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Haatu   

guleed_ali;989016 wrote:
Then let's not force kids to eat their veggies or do their homework. Better yet let's get rid of curfew or chores. The deen is not something where you can pick and choose. If there are people who despise the Hijab and don't want to wear it they're the exception not the rule. Making the Hijab mandatory in a Muslim country is the same as indecency laws in North America (we just have a higher level of modesty, just as some States have a higher level of modesty than other States). Our opinions as outsiders are moot what matters is the will of the people in that particular country and their lawmakers, and one's got to admit it is way more than the typical 50+1 that is required in "democracy" (using the KSA as a test country). By the way you find just as many Women (if not more) fighting to enforce the Hijab as you do Men.

Exactly. The truth is one and Islam is one. You cannot pick and chose as you like. Either you submit and accept and get the reward, or you reject and get the punishment if Allah wills.

41_46.png

Whoever does righteousness - it is for his [own] soul; and whoever does evil [does so] against it. And your Lord is not ever unjust to [His] servants.

 

Islam is our religion and the hijab is a part of our faith. We will not bend and twist our deen to satisfy the whims of the liberalists and the secularists.

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Jacpher   

burahadeer;989100 wrote:
Iran and Saudi Arabia r oppressive regimes.There be much less niqab when people free and on their own will,just look at any muslim country that's not dictatorial.I been to few towns in Somaliland couple times last 10 yrs and to my surprise found out that niqab is disappearing.Also every women with niqab is not what you thought.Lot thm put on when they going to chat session or have date.It should be personal.

Kulu nafsi bimaa kasabat rahiintu.

Niqab surfaced last plus 20yrs among Somalis and already back to square one .Were
we muslims before the niqab,
i.e 1980!?

Does that imply you're not a Muslim now?

 

Back to the topic: Not that I understand what the little girl is talking about in the vid but she should be free to display her beauty to the world if she desires so. No compulsion in Islam.

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Does that imply you're not a Muslim now?

 

Is that what we talking about! what am saying is there was no niqab among Somalis in 1975 or 80.Were we not muslims back then.?

 

anyhow am closer to truth on how things are.

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Marksman   

Interesting how some people say there's no compulsion in religion, but others feel the need to tell others they're 'openly sinning'. Which comes back to the social control.

 

These days proving one's faith done with a superficial act (hijab) is very important. And all have to do it. Strange how 'lower your gaze' is totally ignored if you can't control your urges.

 

These days are officially over.

 

tumblr_megxieJDwq1r34z06o1_1280.png

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Safferz   

thefuturenow;989073 wrote:
Saff,

 

I understand your point. Some of us are talking about "what should be" while you're addressing "what is." I also agree that "what is" is not acceptable. The moral and religious worth of an individual should not be reduced to a piece of cloth or the length of one's beard. The correct test is Taqwa and Allah (sw) knows best what is in the hearts.

 

However, I do not really follow what you're saying. So let me put it in the form of a question for sake of clarification.

 

Do you believe that the xijaab is an Islamically ordained modest dress for all individuals?
If so, do you believe that it has been used to oppress and abuse women? If so, do you believe that an Islamically sanctioned societal practice should be abandoned in order to prevent this abuse
?

 

OR

 

Do you believe that the xijaab is an optional form of "modest" dress?

I don't think my own beliefs on the hijab are relevant, I'm more interested in discussing it as a practice in various social contexts, without judging anyone for their decision to wear or not to wear one. But what I will answer is what I put in bold in your quote -- I don't believe there's anything inherently oppressive about the hijab, and as I mentioned earlier, it can be liberating for some women while oppressive to others. It comes down to the context and conditions that enable (or disable) a woman from making the decision for herself. It's between her and Allah, not her father or husband, not her family, not her culture, not her government. I think my argument is pretty straightforward.

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Safferz;989147 wrote:
I don't think my own beliefs on the hijab are relevant, I'm more interested in discussing it as a practice in various social contexts, without judging anyone for their decision to wear or not to wear one. But what I will answer is what I put in bold in your quote -- I don't believe there's anything inherently oppressive about the hijab, and as I mentioned earlier, it can be liberating for some women while oppressive to others. It comes down to the context and conditions that enable (or disable) a woman from making the decision for herself. It's between her and Allah, not her father or husband, not her family, not her culture, not her government. I think my argument is pretty straightforward.

 

I agree with you. Modesty is between the individual and Allah---in the private space. Once out of the house, one becomes subject to cultural standards and current law. That is true in all societies.

 

What you're advocating is indeed straightforward but fundamentally at odds with a Muslim worldview. Muslims do not ascribe to the "don't judge me" sentiment as propagated by followers of the YOLO faith. We do not believe in a live and let live world both in individual relationships and in the construction of the public space. The odds are too high. This is faith whose adherents believe that there is a Perfect Word passed on to a perfect man who showed us the perfect way to live. This is the ideal. To divert from that ideal is to move towards hellfire. No Muslim desires for a fellow Muslim to do that which will bring them closer to such severe punishment. Thus, the duty to command right and forbid wrong is borne both out of love for fellow humans and the societal need to prevent fisq, corruption. In this context, the practice and propagation of each religiously sanctioned action is a move towards the ideal--towards good individuals who assemble into good families and eventually into good societies.

 

There are men who demand the women in their lives veil because they are insecure, jealousy prone, or oppressive. Your reaction is to condemn the act of veiling because such a man has demanded it. I see it otherwise--that such man has encouraged a good act but with bad intentions.

 

A society where the veil is optional (and legally enforced as so) does not solve the underlying problem--that particular man's ignorance. It only angers and frustrates him. It does not solve the woman's real problem--that particular man's ignorance. It only placates her in one respect of her frustration. The end result is two very frustrated people in the bedroom.

 

 

Saff, please, redirect that oriental gaze.

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Safferz   

thefuturenow -- not to be rude but it's now page 3 and I've lost interest in this debate, we are not entirely in disagreement but we're speaking from two completely different vantage points. I'm not making a religious argument and I'm not interested in making one, and repeating "there is no compulsion in religion" to argue hijab should be a choice free of coercion is not fundamentally at odds with a "Muslim worldview." I'm also no orientalist nor do my positions resemble anything close to orientalism lol, so I'm not sure where that's coming from but it's a cute way to sign off your post, I guess.

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