Prometheus Posted January 28, 2011 The ruthless dictator was deposed in 1991. Is Somalia better off twenty years later? Well, not all of Somalia, but certain regions are only marginally better off. Somaliland is one such region; Puntland is another. Of course, these regions are better off inasmuch as they enjoy a semblance of autonomy and peace. But these regions are haunted by the same economic scourge that afflicts all Somalis (and all Africans). I suspect Somaliland and Puntland do not enjoy higher per capita GDP, lower child mortality, higher life expectancy, higher literacy, or any number of socioeconomic indicators that are used to analyze economic and social development. There’s no real economy to speak of in either region. Stoic mentioned ‘sophisticated’ developments in Somaliland. Let’s not lower the bar too much. I think you can find such ‘sophisticated’ developments in Puntland and the Deep South as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Che -Guevara Posted January 28, 2011 Prometheus;690904 wrote: I suspect Somaliland and Puntland do not enjoy higher per capita GDP, lower child mortality, higher life expectancy, higher literacy, or any number of socioeconomic indicators that are used to analyze economic and social development. There’s no real economy to speak of in either region. Stoic mentioned ‘sophisticated’ developments in Somaliland. Let’s not lower the bar too much. I think you can find such ‘sophisticated’ developments in Puntland and the Deep South as well. Ironically enough some of the least things people talk in regards to the collapse of Somali State is the economic deprivation and lack of social development.Would the reign of Barre been any different if he modernized Somalia like Mahathir for Malaysia and will democracy without economic and social development last? What good does an election for illiterate, unemployed, hungry man? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Zack Posted January 28, 2011 LOOOOL@Duceysane, you didn't have to own the brother like that ninyahow. I have seen STOIC clearly stating that he supports Somaliland for clanish reasons. He said "I have no chance in getting any thing in NFD because another clan is the majority there". And here he is today accusing Somalis of Qabiilism I am sure he was kidding. :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Che -Guevara Posted January 28, 2011 People leave Stoic alone-there's nothing wrong with supporting region for clan reasons just as long as you don't create or contribute to the conflicts in Somali regions of the Horn. If anything, I hope Stoic helps his people and not just admire their development from distance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus Posted January 28, 2011 Che, I don’t think you can have a viable democracy without having a viable economy. Lipset's landmark paper on the relationship between economic development and democracy was unassailable. He had marshaled a compelling case for the view that economic development must precede democracy. There is no other way to sustain liberal democracy. Countries that democratize before they reach certain economic thresholds are, more often than not, doomed to fail. It is argued that there notable exceptions. But these so-called exceptions are exceptional only in a trivial sense. The generality of the law is persuasive. To be honest, Somaliland is far from a liberal democracy. One doesn't have to be a student of political science to see that. And I think it would be naive to expect them to liberalize their political system before they liberalize their economy. With regards to Siyaad, he would have had a different historical profile had he managed to modernize Somalia. I don't think he was smart enough to take the long-term view. He was a consummate opportunist, with no discernible economic or political philosophy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Libaax-Sankataabte Posted January 28, 2011 STOIC didn't even reference Somaliland in that first post of his. He was talking as if his beloved country (Somalia) has fallen and won't get up in his lifetime. He even suggested WE all embrace the nations that feed us and he included himself in that "homeless" group. It is amazing how our good brother Ducaysane had succeeded in turning the conversation into STOIC's persona and political beliefs. Waar Ducaysanoow, waaku sidee awoowe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoldCoast Posted January 28, 2011 Che -Guevara;690922 wrote: People leave Stoic alone-there's nothing wrong with supporting region for clan reasons just as long as you don't create or contribute to the conflicts in Somali regions of the Horn. If anything, I hope Stoic helps his people and not just admire their development from distance. You know this is not how clan support manifests itself so why forward a fallacy? Isolating clan as both a mode of development and political motivator only works to the exclusion of others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted January 28, 2011 I am almost always amazed that anyone from the clans of SL is attacked and made to feel like it is their sole responsibility that Somalia has failed, or forced to defend that they want Somalia to be better, or that they care about Somalia. :rolleyes: Really? I always find it interesting that people like Ducasaney can post things like Somalilanders are going to get another 1991 lesson and people gloss over it, but stoic can say "with sadness I don’t think I will live to see a peaceful Somalia" and people jump on him like bees on honey. I guess even in forums, he with biggest clan can say what he likes, hence why Sayid Barre 1001 can say as he likes. You seriously wanna know why Somalia will never make it?? Read SOL. You people are the future, look at you? Our regular nomads, with the exception of maybe, Adam, Lily, the non-Somalis, the atheist, Malika, Sheh, Cara, CL (does she have a clan?) and few others, the rest of us (including me) when push comes to shove will gravitate towards lineage. Maybe if more people were honest with themselves rather than pretending they are clan blind while their actions indicate otherwise, you could address your problems and work it out. Reading people in SOL- the only way Somalia will ever work is IF: Puntilander gets to lead, SL agrees to be bullied and subjugated, and Somalia agrees to hold the peace. Unfortunately Puntiland and Somalia will never agree to hold power together and SL would never agree to be the bottom of the ladder again. I am sticking to mini state solution; Somaliland, middleland, Puntiland, halfway land, Somalia and Kismayoland or whatever names, 5 mini peaceful states is better than continuous chaos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juxa Posted January 28, 2011 Qabiil is everything, unless you are a mixure of 2 and married to a 3rd and friends with the 4th & 5th Dhaafa wiilka and qofkasta qoladiisa ha u olaleeyo si bareer ah oo cad oo aan qarsooni ku jirin. maybe if we all embraced what we are (our core) we will heal (stay united or separate) ps: Ibti i wonder why liska iiga reebtay aan aqoon qabiilka? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted January 28, 2011 ^^^LOOOL @ unless you are a mixure of 2 and married to a 3rd and friends with the 4th & 5th- even then you will have your loyality with ciid ku so koresey. You SL cousins will side with me if me and you got into a fight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juxa Posted January 28, 2011 Ibti i always found it difficult to side with one qabiil, to my annoyance i cont proudly announce my qabiil is superior without sounding totally ridicilous, marka i decided i am all about nabad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted January 28, 2011 Is it because magac jajab ahay aayaad qab taan (no sorry that was the name of your town I'm thinking of ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juxa Posted January 28, 2011 ^^ no it is because i dont want to make you feel bad for being born into your qabiil! seriously it is because i dont want to offend to those i love and have meant more to me than a mere qabiil. you see qabiil waligiis bakeeri biya ah ima siin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted January 28, 2011 LOOOOOOL. @bakeeri biya ah ima siin loool Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juxa Posted January 28, 2011 I told you my loyalty is to the ££££. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
