Demonstrations against peacekeeping force

[Waaq]

I understand that peacekeepers are often not the most positive measures to ensuring stability, but in the case of Somalia I see no other alternative. I think we can all agree that the transitional government is far from perfect, and is in actuality terribly flawed, but if this is the way forward this "government" needs a reasonable ability to enforce their mandate. It is beyond my comprehension that there would be mass demonstrations against peacekeeping forces in the area of the country that has suffered the most as a result of the war. I can wholeheartedly agree with concerns over the participation of frontline states (e.g. Ethiopia) in the peacekeeping forces, but without any enforcement capability this government will go the way of the TNG, regardless of the extent of warlord participation in its ranks. Self interest does not change, and those that have raped the country literally and figuratively do not become statesmen overnight. Does the diaspora feel the same way about peacekeeping forces in Somalia? What are alternatives towards the creation of a functioning state and rebuilding efforts?

[Baashi]

Waaq,

What you say to those who argue that unilateral disarmament by one tribe all the while other tribes keep theirs is not a sensible proposition given the tribal nature of the conflict. On the other hand, the TFG cannot and should not become hostage for one tribe. Now, I believe Mogadishu is 10 years project and the international community is mistaken to insist on the government to function in Mogadishu if the legitimacy of the TFG is to be taken seriously. And I see why they say that given the rosy picture and the spin the TFG put on how the old foes joined hands to reclaim Somalia sovereignty. It’s a blunder to use Ethiopian army in order to pacify Somali city. You always take the risk of TFG being a puppet of this real Kingmaker on the ground with military muscle as added leverage to what it has already had at its disposal.

 

My hunch is that TFG should work on changing the perception of the US and other powers of significance on the question of Mogadishu. The reality is the likes of Ato and Yalaxow have a lot to lose should the normalcy and the rule of law come into effect. They would do everything in their power to sabotage the whole effort by using and manipulating the victims themselves (who are very prone to the clannish sentiments) to actually do the fighting so they can stay the top dog of the Mogadishu’s anarchic world.

 

There are no easy way out here. I would blame the TFG for not foreseeing this difficult when it has the real momentum. They can still make a viable argument and insist on not to go Mogadishu and still get the legitimacy of US can give them. Sizable political and financial leverage will come with the US et al recognizing the TFG. If they go disarmament route,I can see a potential of a renewed civil war with no winners at the end.

 

In short, the tribal balance cannot be ignored anyone who wants to ignore that is simply asking trouble.

[QabiilDiid]

A patient in a coma and on a life-support ventilation system has no choice of which team of M.D’s being requested to operate on him for the last attempt to bring him back to life!

Waar waxa dawa u ah in la siiyo badhi idaad. Ama wuu ka boodi oo wuu durdurin ama way ka haadi…. As nomads we are high risk takers. Let them come and help us destroy the ugly brutal anarchists running in THE alleys of Mogadishu. Ama waynu dhiman ama waynu noolaan. It is irrelevant who dies who lives. Somali blood is split needlessly every day.

 

[Rokko]

I can see both Waaq and Baashi have legit point and nevertheless it comes down to what's better for those who suffer the most. Iraq is very good example if you look at it. Although majority of Iraqis, particularly Shias, never liked both Americans or Sadam, had to choose to be the American side. As a result none of them resisted to fight against the invasion.

 

I was never a big fan of foreign troops setting foot in my land especially watching what they did during 93 and recent UN troops in Congo..Ewww..but you have to look/feel what some of our fellow Nomads go through daily na'mean...so one has to wonder and make that tough decision..

[miles-militis]

Foreign troops - I lend my support to that effect, and my reasoning for it is simple - there is no point is being sick and not wanting to see a doctor even if it is to have all fours amputated, for eventually all fours shall fall off and goes along shall be more than just the fours, should you not see to them soonest. It is a matter of time – lose it now, or later.

 

Despite the misogynist Somali pride that is no longer, the poignant, albeit simulated hullabaloo of Mogadishu’s residents, and Somali’s generally mislaid abhorrence for its neighbours, notably Ethiopia, it is in the best interest of Somalia to have foreign troops intervention.

 

If we cannot rid ourselves of the ills, let others help us (operative) rid it.

 

We failed to reconcile, yet with the help of others Somalia had two chances to regain its conscious - Arta & Mbagathi. And now, with the help of others, like or not, disarmed Somalis shall be, for Somalis are emotive beings, and not rational mortals.

 

The irony in the argument against foreign troops is so infantile that it defies logic. The good old saying “doofaarka ma cunee, fuudkiisaan cabaa ….†spring to mind. How is it that one finds it acceptable to impose in the most unsolicited manner on others expecting in absolute certainty to be dined and cajoled, yet cries foul when the hosting nation hints a mere notion of sending its precious sons and daughters to the prowling twats of Somalia – do they not realise that no one wants to risk his life in going to Somalia in its present state …

 

Suudi, Ato and Qanyare (I pick the three ‘cos they voiced their protest thus far) do not mind jetting in and out of Nairobi and Adis Ababa, being served by Ethiopian and Kenyan ladies, being chauffeured by Ethiopian and Kenyan drivers, being hosted by their governments devouring all the while cuisines of their respective countries, yet have the audacity to growl in holier than thou tumult for the mere mention of Kenyans or Ethiopians coming to Somalia to what? …. breath life into their sorry backsides. Where in the world other than Somalia do such creatures with such raison d'être and folly habit? Absolutely ghastly …

 

Need I say more …

[Rahima]

but you have to look/feel what some of our fellow Nomads go through daily na'mean

Bring in Gaalo foreign troops, especially amxaaro and I guarantee you that our fellow nomads will be loosing a lot more than they are at the moment.This issue will further divide the Somali people and even for those of us who support the government, this is just impossible to swallow.

 

The point at hand, is not just these warlords turned MPs oppose this move or that a warlord turned president supports it, but rather what do the Somali populace think of it. I am more than sure that this is clear and undoubtedly to ignore their opinions is just plain ********* .

 

The government needs the support of the people but so far are only alienating them.

[Garyaqaan2]

Waar waxa dawa u ah in la siiyo badhi idaad. Ama wuu ka boodi oo wuu durdurin ama way ka haadi…. As nomads we are high risk takers.

 

I would not say it better sxb.

 

eventhough I am not big fan of amxaaro at same time what choise do we have. we can only watch to see our people to starve and be hostage for (qab qablayaal) so let us see we will die or survive.

we want big change in our life. 15 years of hostage we can "no" longer take this.

 

let the african union come over (insha alaah we will have better life) xoriyadeen ilaah hanoo soo celiyo iyo soomaalinimadeen.

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

All too often I see those who seem to disdain the mere utterance of "amxaar" and "xabashâ€, but it is ironic how these descriptions also capture the true essence of what it feels to be terrorized by armed militias.

 

The underlining rationale for foreign troops was to have a "neutral" disarmament body independent of tribal politics. It was in this line of thinking that many folks supported it when they read transcripts of the President’s interview with the BBC. But if the issue lacks a legitimate base of support among the Mogadishu populace(thanks to the propaganda from the Maxkamadaha), the government should try to water down the problem and consider other options be it relocation, shuffling troops, etc.

 

Despite the government’s lackluster effort to better explain or facilitate a greater ease of open, high level media discussions on this particular issue, I am still of the opinion the plan by this government to pacify the country one way or the other is, for the most part, an acceptable proposition to the overwhelming majority of Somalis.

 

I am with Baashi on this. Relocation is a viable option so as to avoid an unnecessary conflict. Let “wax-garadka†Mogadishu sort things out themselves.

[Gediid]

I think the issue of foreign troops for Somalia brings to mind the ongoing civil strife in Lebanon.A smaller country being ruled by a more powerful neighbour.In the case of Somalia,sorry South Somalia I think deployment of soldiers from Ethiopia would mean not only do they control the government but also the land.I doubt if their intentions are to pacify the unruly crowd and those who think so are reading too deeply into the rhetoric and propoganda of the TFG.I strongly doubt where the US army failed a ragtag army from third world countries will succeed.Now that does not however mean that the situation should be left as it is.A more well thought out plan should be devised to sort this problem.

One last note before I sign off.As an example Somaliland in 1991 was more or less in the same chaotic situation as present day Somalia.Ina Egal came up with something called Qarameyn.It meant employing the clan militias and their hardware as the national army under the command of the government instead of the various tribes.Retraining them,getting them uniforms and making sure that they get paid every month.This was possible with the meagre resources at Ina Egal's disposal. I fail to see why Ina Yusuf with access to huge chunks of foreign aid and goodwill from the world can fail in such an endeavor if he approachs it with real good intentions.

What ever avenue is pursued I do wish that the peace so many yearn for is achieved without further bloodshed.

[Suldaanka]

The problem, Mr Gadiid, is that there is no strong accountable clan or subclan authority in place as was in Somaliland in those days. The elders or clan leaders are not as effective as they are in Somaliland. I bet Egal would not have taken one step forward had it not been our elders clearing the way for him. It was the clan structure and its associated mechanisms which remained virtually unhindered and strong in our society that helped Somaliland overcome it.

 

And the other thing is that, the problem in South Somalia has many dimensions to it, not just clan side. There are the religious zealous, the business syndicates, the warlords, the freelance melitias and then comes the clan dimension and also many other interest groups whom are all vying for supermacy and influence. It is a lot harder than many of you think.

 

And if Col. Yey thinks that with foreign troops he can triumph, he is wrong. America with its state of the art weapons and more than 100,000 thousand troops couldn't dare to take Falujah from an ilequiped melitiamen. I think the foreign troops will only add one more deadly dimension and will seriously complicate the matter.

 

What Col. Yey needs to do is to appraoch the problem in traditional Somali way, "SHIR - GEED HOOSTII" and follow the painstaking process of solving one problem at a time. But that is highly unlikely since he is a man who had got used to solving things with the barrel of the gun. Well, if that is the case, then as they say: geelow daaq, daaq oo markaad ciin daaqdo ayaa laguu yaaba...

 

and one more thing, I don't know if you guys heard Abdiqasim's interview by the BBC when he said: "Kursi musbaar leh ayay ii dhigeene, haday kii Afweyne oo kale ii dhigi lahaayeen miyaanba ciil qabi lahaa" - or something to that effect. Well, now that Col. Yey is on that same chair, and let me add, with some extra nails on it (by you know who)... lets hope he is enjoying it.

[Gediid]

Sultan

I know the problem is a little more complicated than it was in Somaliland and Egal but the current approach by the TFG will lead to further bloodshed.The colonel I think in his inaugrul speech said something on the lines of I'm a man of peace and I will work with those who work in the day and I will work with those who work at night.He now has to prove that his words were more than just words.

[Suldaanka]

^^^ lol

lets just hope this old and ailing warlord learns new tricks.

[NGONGE]

The issue of foreign troops is a redundant one now. It looks like they are going to go despite whatever protests any warlords will have. I believe the president (or the organ grinders if conspiracy theories is your thing) has got it right with the issue of the capital. To relocate is to undermine an already fragile administration. The issue will have to be tackled head on and the TFG/President/Powers that be are doing exactly that.

 

At the risk of sounding like Duke (the artist formerly known as Smith), I believe that this strategy will succeed! Whether it’s the shrewdness of this president, outside pressures, luck or a combination of all three, when the stakes were high and these warlords were presented with an opportunity to put-up or shut-up, they consistently chose the latter. Even before the president was chosen we were hearing the doomsayers telling us that Abdullahi Yusuf has no chance of making it! When he made it, they said that him and his government were not going to last that long, he’s still there! The argument that followed was that no members of the government would be welcomed in Mogadishu; they went and were welcomed too! Now the argument is about the foreign troops! I don’t know about you, but I’m not a man that would try to stand in the way of a tornado.

 

Of course, this being Somalia, all might collapse within seconds and no analysis, guesswork or wishful thinking could predict what happens next. But, as the saying goes: so far, so good.

[Jumatatu]

It is a notable progress to see a thread in SOL justifying the need for foreign troops and its implication intelengently as oppossed to the machoisn of Duke et al. However the presence of arrogant snides

My hunch is that TFG should work on changing the perception of the US and other powers of significance on the question of Mogadishu........Bashi

is still visible.

Soomaalida waxay ku maahmaahda "Gaal dil gartiisana sii". Thus it was the opening sentence of Bashi

What you say to those who argue that unilateral disarmament by one tribe all the while other tribes keep theirs is not a sensible proposition given the tribal nature of the conflict.

which is the core of the dilema. Halkaas waaye mesha ay arrintu ka quruntey. The need for Foreign troops under the category of 'peace-keepers' could be said is essential. But as peace-keepers shouldnt they be mutual is the question. And shouldnt their deployment and request for it in the begining be collective decission.

Which brings me to how this TFG was formed. It was formed on the basis of the ill-conceived formula of 4.5, in other words on tribal divission of Somalia. And it is a way, at least initially, to get Somalia to work. Since it was formed in this understanding it is only logical that its methodology of governance and implementation of its decissions should be likewise. Present in the TFG cabinet and parliament are the warlords of not only Mogadishu but those of other places within Somalia. Therefore the option for them to form a security apparatus should be exercised first and given the chance to work. After all this is a 'reconciliation' government and hence all steps that could reconcile and create an atmosphere of trust and union should be tried and tested. To believe that the TFG creation is one of National consensus or even for it to act that manner belittles its role and generates an aura of fantasy that will have a serious repercussion in its activities.

To embark on disarming the militias it is only fair first to eradicate the enviriment that has initially led them to arms. And there are armed people form the south of Somalia to the its north. To suggest some are loyal and hence their disarmament is not necessary and to disarm others because they are obstacles is not a solution to be taken by a 'reconciliation-government'.

Which brings under scrutiny the question for the need of foreign-troops. Why are they needed? And on which basis was the need analysis done? When no attempts to solve or approach the dilema with local solutions has not been done. When the call for it is unilateral. Clearly shows that its agenda is not of national interest nor a reconciling motive.

To those who will argue that there are local-administrations and governance in other regions in Somalia which will make them to easily adapt to the TFG. I will simply say feed that 'sheeko-baraley' to the aliens. Cause for me the dictatorial and oppressive regime that exists in Puntland is not ideal.

The Axmaaro connection which are rapid,ready and very responsive demonstrate that it is a well pre-conceived plan. And also the call to alter the capital city does not only alienate certain group but it also creates an animosity enviroment, thus questioning its motive. What ever the reasons it will be wise to notice that the people of Mogadishu took up arms to rebel against a government that was oppressive in a tribalistic manner and they will certainly never disarm to the establisment of another one of similar charecteristics. Never.

[Gediid]

The situtation in Mogadisho is beyond tribes.If this was in the 90's I would agree but the scenerio there now is beyond tribes or one warlord against another.It is at a point where it now has a multitude of actors who are driven by personal profit rather than qabiil.I think the wise people of Mogadisho now know that and are willing to sacrifice all and everything to live in peace once again.Its just that the solution chosen by the TFG wasn't one they had anticipated.A more prudent approach would have sufficed to meet their support.