Rooble...LooooooooL@ Go back home, you sound like redneck, I can hate and reap the benefits this country has to offer. Cut the lecturing and move on!! "To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect," said Obama Oh wait, you are already sold. I hope you are not this naive in real life C&H...It's ill concieved platitude that mounts to nothing.

slow day at the zoo..?

LoooooooooooooL@yici b, waa isa soosaartey qofyahey.Now it's confirmed.Qs get stereotyped for yicib. Sayid-Somali..Qaraar ka nagadaa Cara....Ms Geek, I could see you sitting down with ayeeyo taking notes on everything baadiye, so nagadaa, u never been there

Spill spill my very handsome cousin Stop with your womanly charms dear-I almost burp it out. Loool@Ibti..Tell her

^What's so positive about it?

chewing gum blower now, that's qoate of the year

^LoooooooL@crackhead , He feels lost without Ms.DD or KK Buuxo-Cara, no the woman wouldn't know how geel looks like, let alone geel grazes. Someone else with miyi roots, with city mind and farmer's skills.

Buuxo-The only place worth of my geel-my Qaloocan, not to be confused with certain dusty town. P.S. Someone else is from there, I promise her not to disclose that info. Sayid....right.

Sayid-So, the whole time ,you were watching us chitchat, but if anyone mentions Q (it could be anything that starts letter with Q)you come running.....get grip man.

LooooooooL@Ibti. Have good one Val. Buuxo..If I don't who will. By the way, I heard from Zakinah, you are from the other Q (better one, of course) place, we are cousins too.

^He grew with native family and knows little about Xalimo world.He almost welcomed with NZ native dance with eyes popping and tongue sticking out, but advised against it. So it's not luck of shukaansi skills, just cultural difference

^May maya, that's fairytale, we are more sophisticated than that Indha,adeeg, over confidence iyo a bit of vanity isku darsaneynaa.

LoooL@NGONGE...I can see him doing, and he would take Somali09 with him Barwaaqo...That's what happens for turning down my cousin

^NGONGE-LooooL..Jeez did I subconciously steal the lyrics? Put smile on your face, ain't it. Buuxo...Lets do that together then Where's Malike and Johny today? I heard Johny get away with money, and the Swedes are looking for him. Dumb cops.

silly people

Hi all, I get up today, went to the bathroom, and look at the mirrow; thought to myself dam I look good. Came to work beaming There's so much reshuffling going on in my work. I no longer know what group I'm in or who is my boss :mad:

^If they do, it's not making it to the hallways of any power center.

^On serious note, is he gonna show up at PDF?

^Only with the Tolka

^Are you gonna be making cupcakes

^I think we agreed injecting their emotions in the mix didn't win them any points or make their arguments (if they forwarded one) any more credible. Non-Somalis can study and be experts on Somali issues, but we can question or refute their research, conclusions, and even on occasion their intentions (remember there's no such thing as neutral part). In fairness to foriegn researchers, we really can't complain what they write and present to the world or governmental/interna tional policy makers when I stated above don't partake in the debate and make coherent arguments.

Well the effort by Bahar and Habeen was emotionally ridden, more of knee jerk reaction, but they do raise important questions about those who profess to be "Somali expert". Without questioning their motives, I think it's important to know just how these researchers or scholars conduct their studies. How rigorious was it, what methodology did they use, how they gather the data, and the least asked question, where they did recieve their funding? In fairness, to Bahar and Habeen, Mr Abdul's article sounds like an opinion, rather than educated guess deduced from a rigorious research. An important fact to point out is that the Somali issues have become a niche for some scholars, researchers, International organizations, and centers from particular nations. On the global arena, non-Somalis have become the vioce of the Somali people. You really can't fault them for that since Somalis chose not participate and not take ownership of the debate. Cynical discussions came to mind here Serenity, Whose fault is that? Somali(s) hardly attend these events nor partake in them and when they do as you have noted embarrass you. Unless Somali’s graduate from the arm-chair politicians that they are/move out of the SOL politics section into the mainstream media we will continue to see talks about Somali dominated by non-somalis and events attended by non-Somalis. So again I ask whose fault is that. p.s I don’t know if you managed to see the Somalia eye (editor) I think on Aljazeera news being asked about Somali boys joining Al-shabab. God help us, not only was he unable to formulate a valid/understandable response but he inserted init, nameen etc with every other words. So confusing that the news guy decided to cut him off and rightly so if you ask me. web page

“YOU LIE” She Screams: The Janet Britt’s of the world never learn By Dr. Ali Bahar Sept 24 , 2009 Ignorance is a dangerous weapon. Couple it with a selfish interest and you can produce a deadly synergism. Guided by this myopic view that lacks knowledge, the Janet Britt’s of the world are determined to protect their objective of using the desperate Somali situation as a cash-crop. It does not matter “what” and “how” a concerned, genuine Somali, such as Mahamed Heeban, feels about his people, or whether he can rightfully express an opinion. In fact, these foreign predators have mastered the reputation of silencing anyone who challenges their distorted view of what our people want. One glance at the Somali situation from the distance and they will qualify themselves as experts of the Somali cultures and their tribal complex, time-tested systems and relationships. An ear full of one misrepresented view fed to them from one individual or particular group with interest, and these foreigners will rush to conclusions presenting their ignorance as guaranteed cure-all solution. Challenge their ignorance and you are under attack. They will even call you a lier--- screaming “YOU LIE”. They are scared to death that someone might expose their ignorance. A case in point is an article titled Unsubstantiated Critique ; The Dark Habeen of the Logic of Heebaan by Janet Britt recently posted on wardheerNews, where she lashes out Mohamed Heebaan for commenting on article written by Abdul Ahmed III, titled: Regionalism and Alternative Forms of Governance. Janet Britt, defending Mr. Ahmed III’s article writes: “The article is one of many pieces published as an excerpt form a collaborative research work that uses a large data sets on Somali clans, ethnography, social association data and large historical data. Ahmed’s article presents in part an analysis of why the former Somalia has disintegrated; we derive a powerful clan based mechanism that leads to self segregation by the clans and shows verifiable ground truth that what use to be Somalia is no more”. She continued to write: “The notion that Somalia’s new quasi-states are somehow contrary to Somali nationhood is highly flawed and contrary to empirical evidence. With the exception of the period between 1960 – 1991, Somali people lived in their chosen traditional states, some of which were far more advanced then today’s Somalia”. Janet claims that Somali clans before 1960 existed as “ independent traditional states” and some of these states where even more advanced than today’s Somalia. Really, Janet? Name one “state”. She even has the audacity to ask Mr. Heebaan to present supporting evidence for argument, while vehemently playing down the value of his own experiences, knowledge and understanding he has of his own culture ---claiming that citizenship does not matter. I do not know Mr. Heebaan, but I do not think he ever mentioned citizenship as the sole weapon he used to discredit the author. She continued to write: "While a fair and intellectually sound critique is acceptable, I believe that the citizenship or ethnicity of the author is immaterial to the argument of what has transpired in what we purposefully for semantic reasons call “the former Somalia”. Finally, we encourage Mr M. Heebaan and others to share whatever technical and empirical data he may to present solid counter-arguments to our work (if any at all). In the absence of such rigorous information we would invite him to get familiar with our work on Somalia and Somali peninsula in order to abort any undue , uninformed sophomoric attacks on individuals authors and the integrity of their work. My question to MS. Britt is: who are you? Here you are asking Mr. Heebaan to present facts and references for disagreeing with Mr. Ahmed III’s article, which now clearly turned out to be yours. Why else defend someone else’s article so vigorously with such a passion, unless, of course you are the author. It also struck me that even your article, this thing you called a research paper, did not bother mentioning or presenting citations or references, as required of all research work. Is this what you called a research? What population did you sample? What was the size of your study population? Where did you find them? Whom did you interview? Any Somali? If Mr. Heebaan and other concerned Somalis have any ulterior motive, it is because they want a strong Somali nation with respected sovereignty, where all Somalis live and co-exist peacefully with each and with the rest of the world. We will take it any form we get it, federal or centralized, because we deserve to be a nation. Not the failed clan enclaves you are prescribing for us. If you care to know about the Somalis, maybe you should read little more about us before you attempt to discredit our own experiences. Until the collapse of the State in 1991, Somalia used to be the envy of African countries below the Sahara. In those days, the world rightly saw Somalia as a unique country whose people, unlike anywhere else in the continent, are homogenous, having one common language, culture, religion and shared aspirations. This is how they always existed before they were divided by colonial powers---Not as independent “states” as you wrongly assumed. Maybe you should try to learn from those who disagree with your opinion, like Mr. Heebaan. Chances are they are right. Doing research helps you learn more about the subject matter. And the more you know about a subject, the more you realize how much you do not know about a lot of things. And you become humble because of it. I have checked Ahmed III’s article, and like Mr. Heebaan, I failed to see what his argument-or what called is all about. He writes: “Moreover, the quasi-independent regional polities such as Somaliland and Puntland provide “alternative mechanisms” as well as “socially acceptable policy prescription” to Somalia’s problem. They also represent examples of a distinctly successful normative policy approaches available to those engaged in helping Somalia end its long civil conflict." Mr. Ahmed III continues to write: "The fact is however that the pre-conceived notion of fairness is one that is exogenously imposed or at least is perceived as imposed solutions (not endogenously derived as in case of Puntland). The perception of imposed rule (whether fair or not) affects the expectations as well as the behavior of Somali clans. Why would Somaliland or Puntland would want exchange whatever relative peace and prosperity for a future possible prosperous Somali nation state.” Not withstanding the fact that the content of the article had little or nothing to do with the title, I personally found it difficult to understand what Mr. Ahmed III was offering as solution. His prescription is basically asking the International Community to leave Somalis exist as clans—something he wrongly characterizes as pre-colonial arrangements that do not constitute “fairness”. Meaning: Somalis never practiced fairness and do not deserve to prosper as a nation. In his opinion, so long there is a semblances of peace in these regions, Somaliland and Punt land do not need to be part of future prosperous Somali Nation State? He is even against the idea of governance and power sharing. He failed to recognize that Somaliland and Puntland are constantly in war with each other and have their respective militia facing each other on daily basis in Sool and Sanaag. Somaliland itself is in turmoil these days in some parts of the region, where land disputes between clans have resulted violence and unnecessary deaths, and may even escalate into more clan war. Like many concerned Somalis, Mr. Heebaan has rightfully commented on the weaknesses of the Author’s views and rejected the notion that the International Community should not attempt to restore some form of law and order in these troubled areas in the south. Contrary to Mr. Ahmed’s assumption, all that the International Community is trying to accomplish in the South, at this point, is to find a lasting peaceful coexistence between these fighting groups in Mogadishu and its surroundings. There is no discussion on whether to re-unite all Somali clans is going on, let alone how. When and if the Somalis ever come together to discuss the Somali State, which is more likely to happen faster than Mr. Ahmed’s group would wish to see, then they Somalis will decide what is best for them. Most Somalis are willing to accept a federal system that mandates the distribution of legislative authority between a central government having jurisdiction over national issues and provincial governments having jurisdiction over regional issues. If that is what Mr. Ahmed is proposing, it was not clearly stated in his article. My hope is that, like all other societies, the Somali people will one day combine in a joint effort to realize what they all need, a viable nation. And whatever form of government they agree on will have its own system of ends and its own means to exist. Nevertheless, I have no problem with his views. What I have problem with is the way Janet Britt tried to discredit Mr. Heebaan’s view. We have had enough foreign architects who have either contributed to the Somali calamity in the last 20 years, or are engineering the dismemberment of the Somali people today. And if you see some of us extremely suspicious of foreigners promoting the status quo and actively engaged in the destruction of the Somali state, I think we have a very good reason to be on the alert. Many Somalis rather see their nation dig itself from this humiliating state. There are those who have their sleeves rolled back and have their hands in the dirty, trying to resuscitate their country, whether building hospitals, roads homes, schools or digging wells. And we welcome anyone who is willing to help our people. But I wonder if the Janet Britt of the world has contributed a penny to help our people. I suspect not!! Ali Bahar Ph D Email: aib_1@yahoo.com

Unsubstantiated Critique ; The Dark Habeen of the Logic of Heebaan By Janet Britt Sept 22 , 2009 Mr. Mohamed Heebaan critique on the author and the article titled “Understanding the collapse of Somalia: challenges and opportunities for restoring a nation-state.” is technically unsubstantiated and practically misleading. It is an exceedingly flawed interpretation of the article and incorrect account of the reality in what use to be Somalia. The critique unfairly assumes that Abdul Ahmed III has an ulterior motive to call for the dismemberment of the former Somalia. Apparently it also come into sight that Mr Heebaan assertion that the article contains antagonistic view against the Somali people is a sophomoric attempt to intentionally attempt to mischaracterize the content of the article or at best it could be a defective logic that served Habeen’s parochial interest whatever it may be. Mr Heebaan is impulsively fervent and unstoppable in portraying the original article as an Ethiopian agenda without any proof or any sound intellectual line of reasoning. His claim that the article is related to Ethiopian attempt to divide in his view a Somali country is a clear sign that he is presumptuous and uninformed about the origin and the basis of Ahmed’s work and the subsequent article. The article is one of many pieces published as an excerpt form a collaborative research work that uses a large data sets on Somali clans, ethnography, social association data and large historical data. Ahmed’s article presents in part an analysis of why the former Somalia has disintegrated; we derive a powerful clan based mechanism that leads to self segregation by the clans and shows verifiable ground truth that what use to be Somalia is no more. The notion that Somalia’s new quasi-states are somehow contrary to Somali nationhood is highly flawed and contrary to empirical evidence. With the exception of the period between 1960 – 1991, Somali people lived in their chosen traditional states, some of which were far more advanced then today’s Somalia. Somaliland, Puntland and the Southern Somalia are part of the greater Somali peninsula populated by ethnically Somali people. The original article and the study upon which it was based simply point out an endogenous self-organization of Somali people into their traditional polities. The collapse of the former Somalia is a reality; our study is neither or a cause nor a celebration of the breakdown of what use to be Somalia (1960-1991). Contrary to the assertion of Mr M. Heebaan, Ahmed’s article is an original and independent intellectual contribution and not an advancement of any particular cause. The article, while laying possible policy contingencies does not particularly prescribe a single specific solution for the former Somalia. Indeed the article rather encourages the world community to assist the peaceful parts of the former Somalia. It is only logical conclusion to assume that any Somali would be happy for the peaceful Northern States of Somaliland and Puntland. It escapes our logic however to see Mr Heebaan unfairly twist the thesis of decentralized governance; a major thesis in today’s scholastic works related to governance. Moreover the idea of solving the Somali problem through bottom up decentralized fashion is one that is far more feasible and more endogenous and far more sustainable than a policy design by well meaning but remote analysts. In an article titled Regionalism and Alternative Forms of Governance Abdul Ahmed III, urges the international community to pay attention to local metaphors and allow Somali people organize themselves as they see fit rather than imposing on them some preconceived notions of fairness among clans and restoration of nation-state and a central authority without local mandate. In fact Abdul Ahmed III urges that the only sustainable solutions to the problem of the former Somalia is a Somali solution that starts locally by the diverse Somali regions. While a fair and intellectually sound critique is acceptable, I believe that the citizenship or ethnicity of the author is immaterial to the argument of what has transpired in what we purposefully for semantic reasons call “the former Somalia”. Finally, we encourage Mr M. Heebaan and others to share whatever technical and empirical data he may to present solid counter-arguments to our work (if any at all). In the absence of such rigorous information we would invite him to get familiar with our work on Somalia and Somali peninsula in order to abort any undue , uninformed sophomoric attacks on individuals authors and the integrity of their work. Janet Britt Email: janet.britt@asu.edu

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