It's 0130 hours local time in Baghdad. A typical morning includes several car bombs, dozen assasinations, and a couple of mosque drive-bys. You're right, not a happy start at all.

^^ Chin up, brothaman. A defeatist/suicidal mindset is the last thing to expect from someone carrying your name. Things looked even more worse when the Mongols trashed Baghdad, putting almost it's entire population to the sword, and burning centuries of knowledge stored in libraries. The onslaught was supposed to continue all the way to Islamic Spain. The mighty Mongols were routed in the decisive battle of Ain Jalot. The world, as it turned out, did not come to an end. You speak of the destiny of Iraq as if it's sealed fate. Only Allah(SWT) knows, and maybe everything that happened is for the better. It's the despair talking, Yaa Salaah. Banish it.

Thanks for the contradiction alert, Khayrka, but try reading again with special emphasis on these words: embrace, extract , mechanism, configure , subservient.

^^ I don't think anyone can object to the type of democratic governance you're arguing for, yaa Xiin. There's only one problem: it's imaginery The Democracy we're either speaking for or against is the one known, practiced, and invented in the West. It's the Democracy adopted disastrously by failed Islamic states: Turkey, Egypt, Algeria. That's the kind of democracy that's on trial, and which I say is incompatible with Islam. You mention political 'victories' in Iran and Palestine. Two anomalies that won't last. Same thing happened in Algeria in '92 when the Islamist party won, word came from above: crush'em. And the military, ever the obedient servant of it's masters, did just that. Forgot about the West, the secular forces in the Muslim world won't allow an Sharia-implementing goverment to come to power, democratic elections or not. Hamas is already back-pedaling, saying Sharia is not on it's political agenda. Let the people vote and the majority of this Ummah will never go astray, IA. Theoretically speaking, in a true democracy in the Muslim world, the people and their elected representatives could vote to, say, allow 'civil unions'(California), or legalise prostitution(Nevada), or(and this is a stretch but completely plausible) vote to usher Islam into the 21st century by throwing out all the 'harsh' parts and give it a fatwa-based makeover. See where this slippery slope can lead us ? Like it or not, when you embrace democracy, you're also embracing the values and norms of the Western world for the past 200 years. Just ask any Turkish sister who can't attend university because somehow that fabric on her head is a threat to the finest system of governance mankind has known. What should we do ? Just the opposite. Instead of importing democracy wholesale, Extract the mechanisms that have made the West the powerhouse it is and configure it so that it's subservient and in line with the Kitaab and Sunnah.

"Blood in my eyes, dawg and I can't see" Zis is why we watch ze game of foosball in ze first place. La Magnifique !. Viva la Arsenal. Haters, Die slow !!

PresidentofSomalia may be melodramatic and slightly nutters, but the substance of what he's saying is true: We can't allow the further dismemberment of Somalia. I don't think Somaliland(or any other 'land) has a stronger right to independence than the Confederate States of America. We all know what Abe Lincoln did to/for them. I guess that's the idea El-President wanted to convey, steada this death-facing-fire-squad BS. Where is our Abe Lincoln ? :confused:

^ That's the whole purpose of a discussion forum, yaa Legend. To allow those who want to froth at the mouth to froth and those who want to pontificate to pontificate. Ignore the ranters and if you can't, blast'em

I think you guys misunderstood the Sayyidka. He's coming at it from a pure commercial perspective, Fiddy's mantra: Get Rich or Die Tryin'. 100 kg of pure gold or diamond. That's a whole lotta faloos, folks. Think about that before you start getting self-righteous and all. That's all I'm sayin'

Rape and abuse by the authorities... sadly, a Muslim country IS the place I would expect this kind of thing to happen ^^True say. We can only fix what we can see, and we can only see what we admit to. In their current state, The Yemenis(goverment & military) have little to do with Islamic values. They fought on the side of Ethiopia against their muslim brothers in '77. Now, they're taking advantage of helpless women. And some nomads have the audacity of calling them 'our brothers' who share our faith and we should cover up for them because it happens all around the world. First off, acknowledge that they('muslim' goverments & military units that engage in genocide, torture, rape, list goes on) have nothing or little to do with Islam. Second, save that tolerance and mercy to the Kafirs who took you in, clothed and fed you, and provided succor in your greatest hour of need. Engage in some Da'wah work, tell them about Islam. It's the least you could do. Thank Allah(SWT) that your flight #13 somehow landed in Copenhagen or Kansas city than Jeddah or San'aa. Oh I forgot, you had to swim through the shark-infested Red Sea to get there, your 'brothers' weren't taking in refugees, unless they happened to be oil-rich Kuwaitis. Think and contemplate.

Ameen. {Edit}

Civilized muslims are surprised just as everybody else. 'Civilised muslims' are the 21st century's answer to the Uncle Tom integration-seeking Negros of the civil rights era. Their entire world came crashing down on them because the hungry masses were stirring 'trouble' clamouring for their 'god-given rights'. Now, they're faced with the prospects of being kicked out of the suburbs and back to the 'hood. Deja vu, anyone ? As Jamilah said earlier, I can't help but think the reason why many Muslims in the West are so quick to distance themselves from the 'barbaric ferocious rampaging mob', is not because they disapprove of their actions, on the contrary, they wish they had the spine to stand up for their beliefs, but because all those funny looks at the office are getting to them. So they'll up and announce themselves as 'moderate'(whatever the heck that means), and paint the rioters and protestors as either extremists out for a clash of civilisations, or as ignorant reactionary poor people. In effect saying: "I've made the American dream and I'll be damned if those Thirld Worlders are gonna mess it up for me. Hey john, I'm with you guys on this one. Those crazies out there jumping up and down in the streets, tottally nuts dude. It's not even a big issue. Cartoons, for pete's sake. Why don't they protest about poverty, and racism, and homophobia, and fundamentalism ?" I'm not condoning the way the protests were carried out. But they were inevitable. Basic Human Nature 101. You don't poke a lion in the eye and when he starts going after every animal in sight, say: "Gee, now why'd he do that ? That was uncalled for." Don't poke him in the eye in the first place, and if you just can't resist it, well man up and deal with the consequences. As Colin Powell said about the Iraq war: You break it, you own it. And finally, about this whole freedom of expression ish, I'mma keep it simple: If your right to freedom of expression turns into freedom to insult, than my fist has the freedom to deny your nose's right to exist.

Did you get up for Fajr Prayer Today? Game over Where the invention at, Shaykhuna ? The prototype will do for now, JZK

@invention. You never cease to amaze, brothaman akhi. Yo Nur, you come up with that wireless embarrassment-free handshake invention thingy, and I'll pledge 10%(aight, 5%) of my future annual income to E-Nuri Enterprises. P.S. On second thought, I'll be saddled by student loans(another problem E-nuri needs to find a solution for) by then, so um howsabout I provide the moral support and um verbal encouragment ??

^ That's the truf.com ! on-point and well-thought out analysis, Jamilah. comments coming up after the commercial break.

Brothaman Sayyid, You've made your point. Over and over again, yeah, over and over again(damn earworms). You quoted scholars and books to the page number. You've annihilated the opposition with verifiable facts and quotes. Their only recourse(save a few exceptions) were rhetorical questions and snide one-liners. A few points aside(absolute blanket judgment,etc) , you're on solid footing here, friend. So whussup with that pornography up there ? You've made Water Lily throw up, you made me lose sleep, and you probably mentally scarred a few 13 year olds for life. Talk about using a .50 cal machine gun on a mosquito. Engaging in sensationalism only cheapens your argument. That includes the size 72 multi-coloured fonts. Great argument, but could we uh, work on the delivery ? Constructive criticism delivered, I gotta give it up to the Iranians. From their president, to their newspapers, to the (wo)men on the street, they've displayed an enourmous amount of self-respect and refusal to bow down before the West in the past few weeks, from the nuclear program controversy upto the cartoon mess created by the Europeans using the the freedom of expression crutch. Ha ! Let's see if that bleeding-heart tolerance extends to cartoons about the Holocaust when Iranian newspapers run them. I wouldn't run it myself, but it will test and expose the inherent double standards of White Europe. Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has ordered the cancellation of economic contracts with countries where the media have published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed . ^ This is the kind of leadership we need. Take note, dictators and shieklings.

^^ Restraint, Tolerance, Diplomacy and Calm: These are all nice beautiful concepts. Unfortunately, they don't comfort widows or raise orphans. Retribution doesn't either, but it hammers home the point that there will be damning consquences should innocent blood be shed. What's pissin' me off the most is the universal indifference shown towards Damadola massacre. Case in point: Jill Carroll, a captured American journalist is shown on Al-Jazeera; the very next day, CAIR(Council on American-Islamic Relations) announces a delegation that'll travel to Iraq to secure her release. That's great. But where was CAIR when 20 Muslim villagers died at the hands of a $3.2 million Predator drone payed by their(and mine and your) tax dollars ? Not one word of condemnation. Forget the Gulf countries. Forgot the Musharrafs and the Mubaraks. Forget Al-Azhar. Forget the grandly named General Presidency of Islaamic Research, Ifta, Call and Propagation. Or the Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Fataawa. Or the Supreme Committee for Islaamic Propagation. Wise, tempered, level-headed silence. I need a break.

It's pretty much obvious that Musharraf and his crew Ok'd the massacre(collateral or not). The fact that he's working hand in hand with Bush on his 'war on terror' is well-known. I wasn't expecting him to order a tit-for-tat retaliaton(no no that would require some huge ones), but at the very least, to save face, demand an public apology from the Bush-man himself and a obscene amount of 'blood money' for all those killed. At the very least. The Bush administration hasn't even acknowledged the attacks happened. Could you ask for a bigger slap in the face ? "Sorry your people had to die, but um, go ahead and clean up the mess, will ya ? We got us some terrorists to hunt down. Dismissed." The issue isn't about statesmanship or 'playing the game'. It's about lives lost. Forever. Do those lives have value ? Are they worth anything ? As Muslims ? As human beings ? As civilians torn apart in their beds at 3 am because of the farce known as 'war on terror'. In Munich, the Israelis lost 11 athletes. Not only did they hunt down and assasinate those who planned the attack, but for good measure(in their warped minds), they bombed refugee camps in Lebanon and Syria. The message being(السي٠اصدق انباء من الكتب): Don't F with us. It's expensive. The Americans take care of their own. The Israelis take care of their own. The Muslims ? Enough said. Time to dig ourselves out of this $hithole of infamy we're in.

"It sends out a clear message: Don't F*ck with the Jews" -Steve, a Mossad Assasin, on a operation that resulted in 'collateral damage' I went and saw Speilberg's Munich last night. As usual, the Beard knocked it out of the park. A lil bit too long but well-worth it's $7.50. The movie deals with the aftermath of the Munich massacre and the Israeli response. Which brings me to the Damadola massacre. Where's our response ? Where's the response of the Muslims ? My bad, I forgot we don't count: weak, divided, and worth about two cents in Chinese money. So with Pakistan being a proud, sovereign country, they're gonna show the world that you just can't come in and bomb the hell out of a Pakistani village, killing scores in the process, right ? Surely that curry-eating, Attaturk-worshipping diminutive dictator is gonna do something. You bet. That something consisted of summoning the US Ambassador and, check this, condemning the attacks. Wow. 20 Pakistani citizens are blown to pieces in the middle of the night and the best you can do is a summons and a protest ? Besides growing some nuts, you are in serious need of a brain transplant, General Pervert 'Turk' Busharraf.

Poem looks nice, if we could decipher it. Translation ?

Not so long ago , i´d a family member at Haj and an incident took place at that very same spot ( where Satan is stoned ), had she been hurt i ´d to sue the Saudi authority You don't sue an absolute monarchy. You can beg, You can grovel, but you can't sue.

May Allah(SWT) accept the Hajj of all those who perished and grant them paradise. It's bittersweet. On one hand, death in Hajj(=purified from all sins) ; on the other, the elderly, kids, and women being trampled on during the stampede. Only the strong survive.

It doesn't really matter whether he prays or not. That's between him and God. The goverment he leads is a secular one and prayer is not part of the constitution. Assuming he does, he still has to answer for 30 years of bloodshed.

Yaa Jafarel, I'm a brothaman. And a happy Day of Arafah to you. :cool:

One of the best books I've ever read. The author, a General in the Pakistani Army, spent 5 years of meticulous research and travelled to all the sites and locations mentioned. This is more than the biography of a military genius. This is a thorough description of early Islam: from Quraysh's rejection and subsequent battles with the Prophet(PBUH), the conquest of Makkah, the wars of "Rid'dah"(Apostasy), the invasion of Iraq & Syria; all seen through the eyes of Khalid. Here, for SOL's viewing audience, is the book in it's entirety online.

^ He sure is, unless this is some satirical piece Forlorn and heart broken by the white man’s ingratitude, we Africans may have only one option available to us; to shut our gates and stop European tourism, and peacekeeping regiments pouring into our borders. We have to reclaim our Dark Continent’s old ways and status. Granted diseases like malaria and European brought plagues like Aids and even TB will kill millions but our population will be less, the land will regain its greenery and beauty, trees will bear fruits again, rains will be plenty; and with leaner population, we will have sufficient resources and we will be at peace with our wildlife. We will no longer fight for European markets and will throw away the modern beads of slavery such us cell phones, television sets and other luxuries. We will remove all the white man’s vestiges such as borders and land ownership; and just like the old days, we will move around the continent and let our animals graze wherever the rain falls and pastures abound. We will die and be buried in our soil and our bloated bodies will no longer be washed on foreign beaches Madness, plain and simple.