God Bless Somaliland

[Abtigiis]

Himself from Baligubadle, a tiny dusty village populated by short, dark-skinned people who allegedly sit in the lower fringes of Somaliland’s infamous clan hierarchy, Godane’s spite and bitterness is excusable. Provided he takes it out on those who regarded his kins as the chattel of the main beneficiaries of the enclave’s counterfeit statehood politics. He could have done this by marrying their women in four-somes, divorcing them and re-marrying another quartet every moon. Provided he pillages Gabiley and Burco, the sources of his ailment. It becomes unacceptable when he cuts limbs and loins of Somalis in the South who haven’t contributed to the development of his misanthropy in any shape or form.

 

How can God bless Somaliland when it has sired the Foday Sankoh of Somalia - Ahmed Godane? I ask Xaji Xundjuf!

[Jacaylbaro]

Now XX will have no choice but to say exactly the same about Abdi Iley ,,,,,

[NGONGE]

Abtigiis;752976 wrote:

Himself from Baligubadle, a tiny dusty village populated by short, dark-skinned people who allegedly sit in the lower fringes of Somaliland’s infamous clan hierarchy, Godane’s spite and bitterness is excusable. Provided he takes it out on those who regarded his kins as the chattel of the main beneficiaries of the enclave’s counterfeit statehood politics. He could have done this by marrying their women in four-somes, divorcing them and re-marrying another quartet every moon. Provided he pillages Gabiley and Burco, the sources of his ailment. It becomes unacceptable when he cuts limbs and loins of Somalis in the South who haven’t contributed to the development of his misanthropy in any shape or form.

 

How can God bless Somaliland when it has sired the Foday Sankoh of Somalia - Ahmed Godane? I ask Xaji Xundjuf!

Think about it now. Adaa ba kubbada salaxaya!

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Abtigis Axmed abdi godane is a product of the former dictatorial regime of Somalia he grew up in that kind of society i think even the socialist Marxist regime shaped his personality and made him this extreme to reject any form of Modern Governance. Ahmed Godane was born and grew up in hargeysa back than part of the former failed Republic of Somalia but he is not to blame the society he grew up and the governmental environment that he found him self in back than is to blame for the outcome of his lately behavior.

[Carafaat]

Indeed al Shabaab is a product of Somalia.

And its stronghold is not without reason those areas in Somalia were grieve injustices were committed against people and who's land was seized and claimed by fleeing remainents of the Siyadist regime and its footsoldiers.

[Coofle]

Although there are many flaws in the article, but it touches a very important and sensitive issue, weather Somalia could have a centralized govt or not, Personally I believe ultimate federalism is the answer.

[Abokor Omar]

I agree god will bless those who chose life over death, peace over war, statehood over criminality, good over bad. Here is to you Somaliland and may your haters never prosper.

[Wiil Cusub]

That is especially true of Somaliland where the feeling against the south is still very bitter. Reunification with the south is unanimously opposed. Not a single Somalilander I know wants reunification. Not a single Somali from the rest of the country wants Somaliland to stay independent. Unless we are very careful, peace in the south of Somalia will mean war in the north.

May be small minority of Somaliland and small minority of rest of the country could not agree this statement, anyhow as long as majority of each part of formal somalia is against idea from other part, war is eminent

[GoldCoast]

Why didn't you post the replies to this article where the guy got a shellacking LOL?

 

First reply:

 

Roland Marchal is Research Fellow at SciencesPO Centre for International Studies and Research. He has written extensively on Somalia

 

 

With all due respect to Richard, this is a collection of all the clichés on Somalia (and Switzerland). That Switzerland reaches its current status is not the outcome of a bottom up approach: there were moments like that, but many others clearly shaped by a quite different logic. One should expect the reference to be more grounded in history.

 

John Lonsdale wrote an essay (published in African Studies) on the creation of pre-colonial State, and one would hardly find any process similar to the one designed by the author. But yes, history is creative. Anthony Giddens, in his book The Nation-State and Violence, also reminds us that States exist only in a system of States. This is also very true when analysing the conditions by which Switzerland was able to survive despite the wars at its borders. It is surprising how the issue of State Building in Somalia is seen as internal, though so many foreign actors are involved and imperative on its shape and orientation.

 

I have no idea whether Somalia is a fit for a strongly centralised State, for a loose federation or for the coexistence of many States: I hope one day its population can have a say on that issue after a proper democratic debate. One should however bear in mind a few points. First, the centralized State was not always a colonial legacy . The Sudan Political Service was not made up of disciples of Napoleon, neither was their practical philosophy inclined to that thinking. Ethiopia was a very centralised State and did not need the Italians to be that. Ioan Lewis reminds us – I think in “Pastoral Democracy”- that Somalis could be fierce Repuplicans but also very obedient. The focus on the current crisis should not pre-empt us to remember other periods of Somali history when centralizing dynamics were very much at play (the Ajuuran empire, or the post 1945 nationalistic period). On should stop identifying State-building process with a UNDP/NGO project and see it as it is: messy, contradictory, often coercive and bloody, and much longer that a diplomatic assignment or a UN contract.

 

That Somali politics could eventually be reduced to clan politics is an opinion that still has some popularity. I would not say this is untrue, but as a sociologist I am amazed that no other identities play a role, neither those created by urbanisation, migrations, social classes, contacts with the State, political Islam and so on. Really, if the author is right, then Somalia is extra-ordinary: the “museum of one people that has not changed” (taking note that the author forgets the strong presence of Bantus and other refugees – such as Oromos – of all kinds). Moreover, I would like to hear what clan politics actually encompasses at a moment when all clans (at least in the South and in large parts of the North) are deeply divided, with the divisions often crossing nuclear families.

 

The proposal Richard makes just ignores history and confuses the social setting of Somaliland and Puntland with most of the South where all clans are represented. What then are the regions he mentions? How to define them? Should we take those of the1960s? or 1990? Or repeat what Puntland and Somaliland did (very different approaches but still a creeping conflict between the two)? Puntland with a very small population and a relative clan homogeneity created more than 30 new districts to appease some of its elites. With little success, as we can witness today. The current problems faced by both entities have different origins but tend to prove that their survival is today increasingly connected or dependent of international support.

H

is idea is also debatable on another important point: why should Mogadishu port benefit only to Benaadir people? Should Berbera port benefit only to Sahel and not to the whole Somaliland? Ethiopia did promote this idea in the 1990s and got the support of other international players at that time (the EU among them). The achievement is to say the least, unimpressive. To a large extent, the growth of Islamism in the late 1990s and early 2000s was fed by a nationalistic reaction to what many Somalis interpreted as a balkanisation of Somalia.

 

Let us conclude on Somaliland: as someone who grew up in a democratic country, I always question unanimity (seemingly unlike the author) and my fieldwork experience shows that ‘yes ministers’ support their government in Somaliland, but opinions vary in the population at large. Some may die for Somaliland, others feel it is the best they can get for the time being, and few publicly or silently admit (since inside Somaliland they will be arrested or socially coerced) that they are against it.

[GoldCoast]

Another response

 

Ken Menkhaus is Associate Professor of Political Science at Davidson College and an expert on Somalia

Richard Dowden touches on a lot of issues in his piece. Let me focus my comments on his central thesis – the need for Somali state-building and peace-building to be accomplished with sub-national entities – regional governments – serving as the main source of power and as the main actors negotiating the terms of a national government. This is an approach that is gaining traction in international and some Somali circles, manifested in the current arrangements for regional entities to pay a direct role in the transitional roadmap in Somalia. It is an idea borne of frustration with repeated failures of top down state building in Somalia, and has the distinct advantage of building on what works – local and regional administrations in Somalia have achieved modest but real achievements, and enjoy a greater degree of local ownership, accountability, and legitimacy than has the TFG and its predecessors.

 

But like all proposed solutions, this one solves some problems and creates new ones, and we need to be frank about some of the shortcomings of the ‘confederal model’ in the Somali setting. First, it is disliked by many Somalis, and not just the corrupt elites presiding over the loot-fest we call the TFG. Somali nationalists see it as a path to disintegration and an Ethiopian plot to keep Somalia divided and weak. Some Somali clans see it as a recipe for marginalization, if their home area is devoid of natural resources or ports where revenues can be raised. But the biggest problem of all – and one that has persistently plagued both Somalia and neighboring Ethiopia (which embraced an ethno-federalism model twenty years ago, though only partially implementing it) – is the question of identity and rights in a federal or confederal system. Because the federal model is, in the minds of almost all Somalis, code for clan-based regions, the organization of Somalia into federal states begs the critical question of who has the right to live, own land, and make full political clams in these entities? Are these to be strictly ethno-states? Or may any Somali enjoy full claims to live in any confederal state, in which case they are purely administrative units, more akin to the American federal model than the Swiss one? Unfortunately, for all of Somaliland’s and Puntland’s successes, they have defined citizenship in their territory in exclusivist clan terms, treating other clans as at best “guests” (galti) and at worst as illegal immigrants. Puntland’s expulsion of south-central Somalis last year made this amply clear.

 

There is a long running debate among Somalis over the nature and basis for rights – rights by blood, rights by birth, or rights by citizenship. Until that is resolved, federal and confederal models are an invitation to fight rather than a promising solution to the vexing problem of state revival in Somalia. I personally think some form of decentralized governance in Somalia has great potential, but not until fundamental issues of citizenship and rights are clarified. That, among other things, is a matter that the TFG is supposed to be addressing in its constitutional committee.

[Abdul]

Abokor Omar;753055 wrote:

I agree god will bless those who chose life over death, peace over war, statehood over criminality, good over bad. Here is to you Somaliland and may your haters never prosper.

For a moment i was thinking this was from some jewish guy till i got to 'somaliland'.Loooool.

[burahadeer]

some people still playing there will be "war" card againest somaliland

Nin daad qaaday xumbo cuskay.

[Somalia]

It's as if he got his talking points straight from the office of...

 

burahadeer;753087 wrote:

some people still playing there will be "war" card againest somaliland

Nin daad qaaday xumbo cuskay.

I wouldn't be laughing, certain people in your region know that it is inevitable.

[burahadeer]

talk,talk & no walk ! we seen your biggest actor(afweyne) & not worried about mice....keep bluffing.

[Somalia]

burahadeer;753096 wrote:

talk,talk & no walk ! we seen your biggest actor(afweyne) & not worried about mice....keep bluffing.

Siad Barre ignored the advice of the Generals which mostly hailed from Puntland which led to his downfall, ask around for what their plans were for your region.

 

When it comes to history you seem like a child, why do you think there was hatred for Puntland? What's the historic background?