Demonstrate agains Riyaale in UK

[Ace of Spadez]

BN-

HornAfrique wrote to Jaamac, "Tell me was your father living rich off of the murders and torture of other innocent folks who were not 'Puntlanders'?" You replied to Horn and said "You are sounding like the biggest hypocrit on here. I didnt want to get involved in this garbage discussion. Only one tribe(subclan) grew fat and rich off the blood and suffering of Somalis. We all know who that was. And for them to stand now and point fingers is utterly outrageous--to say the least.

 

This shows that from your angle only a certain group of people did crimes. That Jaamac's father shouldn't be pointed fingers at. Now why would you point fingers at Riyale????

Even if you do go on to say "Nothing good came from it and no self-respecting man would serve in it." you never ever say that some one who is one of them is a CRIMINAL. You only passed a moral judgement. See the difference. You can't say in one breath some one who is a member of the NSS is a war criminal, and in the other say, some one who is a member of the NSS shouldn't be pointed fingers at, although they are morally bankrupt to even be in that institution. Why because, it was only a certain subclan that got rich off the murder of others, thus implying no one else could have. See the inconsistency. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

 

MMM- when I say read, I mean it. I will repeat what I said before so maybe you will hear what I mean. Whenever you talk about something you say, I heard. Case in point your last statements on this board. You can't base everything on heresay.

[Gabbal]

Spadez its hypocracy at its best. There used to be two "mainstream groups" in the Politics section, the pro-Somalia and pro-Seccessionist camps. A while ago the pro-Somalia groups split into two, the Daacad pro-Somali unity and the Hypocritical pro-Somalia camps. Ever since them some certain related nomads, in terms of geography, have went on a "get Hornafrique campaign" for exposing their double standards. :rolleyes:

[BN]

Spadez,

 

You seem to enjoy twisting words around and implying certain things about others to fit your views. I bad habit indeed.

 

First, the discussion then was not about crimes; but rather who enjoyed the most wealth material rewards during the Barre dictatorship. While our discussion was about the NSS and specific war crimes. See the difference?

 

Dont confuse the two.

 

It it a fact that the vast majority of those who benefited(materially), were from Siyaad Barre subclan; but there were numerous members of his government and security organizations that came from many different clans. It would be ridiculous and outrageous for me to suggest that crimes were only committed by those from Siyaad Barres subclan.

 

I will not go into personal attacks against (former) forum members, or worse, against their families.

 

As for Riyaale, who is a public figure and a self proclaimed 'president', he has been named in the novel "A Government at War With Its Own People: Testimonies About the Killings and the Conflict in the North" and well as Human Rights articles, such as "Justice for the Atrocities of the 1980s" for his position as head of the National Security Service(NSS), which was created with the help of the Soviet union, in Berbera Somalia during the 1980's. He either oversaw, permitted, ordered, and/or committed all those war crimes which happened under his watch. And against your own relatives no less!! :eek:

 

This was some of what was written about your beloved leader by human rights groups and campaigners.

 

The town of Berbera saw some of the worst atrocities of the war, even though the SNM never entered Berbera in 1988. Elders and businessmen were immediately arrested en masse after the SNM attack on Hargeisa and Burao; between 27 May and 1 June, they were transferred to Mogadishu. The killings, which were exceptionally brutal in Berbera, began shortly afterwards. Many of the victims had their throats slit and were then shot. A series of massacres which have been mentioned again and again took place, mainly in June, in Buraosheikh, close to Berbera, when about 500 men were killed in groups of between 30-40. Some of the victims were from Burao, Hargeisa and surrounding villages who had come as temporary labourers to the port of Berbera. Others were asylum seekers who had been returned from Saudia Arabia. The names of some of these men are listed in the book. As head of the NSS in Berbera, Dahir Rayaale bears a heavy and direct responsibility for their fate.

Full Article

 

 

I also wrote this in my last response. I am sure you must have missed it.

 

"Riyaale, Abdiqasim, Morgan, and all other former members of the inner Barre government and security organizations are suspects of war crimes. They should not be holding positions of power before clearing their names."

 

 

Horn,

Sxb, you are the last person I need a lesson in hypocracy from.

 

 

BN

[Rokko]

Spadez, Jaamac_Bootan's father if he turtured others is just like Riyaale the criminal ... but there is a big difference na'mean.

 

The difference?

 

Riyaale runs a whole state as the President.

Riyaale's attrocities are documented just like Morgan na'mean (talk to Raqiyah Omar )

 

 

You have to stop attacking Bari_Nomad because you really don't have a point na'mean.

 

Who is this Jaamac_Bootaan anyways? I have a feeling he was a Somalilander. you never know.

[Nasir]

all puntlanders are the this so called NSS, most tribes were members of the NSS, and for riyaale leave him to us to judge, you just mind your own business. its amazing when they are accusing someone for being something that they too are

[Ace of Spadez]

First, the discussion then was not about crimes; but rather who enjoyed the most wealth material rewards during the Barre dictatorship. While our discussion was about the NSS and specific war crimes. See the difference?

 

Actually the debate was about getting rich off of murders, I don't know about you but murders are crimes.

 

He either oversaw, permitted, ordered, and/or committed all those war crimes which happened under his watch. And against your own relatives no less!!

 

I'm afriad you're the one spinning things here. " As head of the NSS in Berbera, Dahir Rayaale bears a heavy and direct responsibility for their fate.[/i] " as the report states, is different from what you wrote.

 

A:-You make him sound like he was a top individual. He was not a Minister like AbdiQasim Salat, and he was not the Governor of a whole region. You can't make him an INNER CIRCLE of Siyad Barre's regime. Its a far fetched idea that some guy who was stationed once in Lascanod a remote area in the Former Somali Republic, and then to Berbera as some one of great importance.

 

B:- When the War happened, its the Army which was in control. Which he was not a member.

 

C:- He has witnessess, not ones but many who say he saved them, and can testify to that. He saved them, by going to the Late General Talan (who was killed in Mogadishu late 2000/early 2001)and asking him to save these people. As you can see he had no power and needed a military person to carry out any kind of action.

 

D:- He has a great moral responsibility for being apart of a regime that was despotic and so cruel to its own citizens, but by having freed these people, people can see he has more than attoned for having been in the regime to begin with. Furthermore, he was the governor of Awdal in the first 2 years during the SNM administration and could not have been chosen if he was a war criminal.

 

E:- All the report says as evidence, unlike other events in the book that detail the atrocities that took place, is that Dahir Riyale was present when a 14 year old's father was taken away. Now to me, that's circumstantial evidence. Compared to the other evidence, like General Talan's account, we know he was actually doing good not bad.

 

 

HornAfrique- Some people behave like they're actually fighting with the person. lol BN- actually says to me, you are talking through your beep again. lol I mean lets be civil here. In any case, there is life outside of cyberworld.

 

 

Mobb Deep,

First bring evidence Riyale is a criminal, then you can call him that. At least BN- phrases his allegations in a questions..ie Isn't RIyale a war Criminal.... giving people the chance to say no or yes...

 

To say Morgan and Riyale have the same documentation is turning a blind eye...

 

And I didn't attack bari at all, he's the one who asked are we SCHIZNOFRENIC...lol you don't hear me malling over that..I just asked him to be consistent..and get his facts straight...

[Rokko]

Spadez, I agree Riyaale might not have as bad a reputation as Morgan but his NSS past can't be ignored just because there is somebody out there who is worse than him na'mean. Atleast he is the President and should be scrutinized even more na'ean.

 

 

About the documentation?

 

Well, Raaqiyah Omar (the Somaliland human rights activist) wasn't saying nice things about the dude na'mean. Don't forget her views could be biased because she is an inlaw of Siilaanyo na'mean.

 

Anyways, Riyaale can only benefit from such demonstrations. If you don't want to give Riyaaale any more attention, just don't go n'amean.

[Rokko]

Originally posted by Nasir:

The monkey abu from aladin cartoon worth more than this guy and probly has better IQ. sxb quit posting your 1 cent articles and get up from that seat and grap a poster and march down the street if you are man enough

Ok, this is getting weird now.

 

If by saying another nomad (ABU AMMAR) is a monkey with a low IQ, is not an insult, then what is?

 

Nasir, ya need to calm yoself dude. Don't let this political game which is just baashaal get to ya na'mean.

[Kowneyn]

Spadez:

 

I am not sure why u feel the need to defend the indefensible. Riyaale spent his whole life in the NSS and rose through its ranks. The NSS was not the boy scouts and it was certainly not the organization one joins to SAVE LIVES. In fact, a conscience spelled a glass ceiling in this most brutal appendage of barre's regime. Many of the most brutal crimes were committed under his watch and some who have studied his career claim to see a correlation between Riyaale's authority in an area and increase in human rights crimes. In sum, he is guilty until the very unlikely event he is proven innocent.

 

Riyaale is not the only one with a dark past holding a position of influence in Somaliland. People like Qaybe, Ismail etc., along with Riyaale will have their day in court some day.

 

The fact these people came to hold these position or the thousands welcoming the presidents delegation in support of the right of Somaliland to be recognized, does not absolve them of past crimes or erase their dark history.

 

We welcome this delegation today for Somaliland's sake, as we will welcome for the sake of justice their day of reckoning when it finally arrives. Its simple as that.

 

Bari Nomad;

 

Your sporting of the Boqor's picture to score few political points reminds me of the disgraceful exploitation of MMA for a similar end the suffering of the people of Baidoa.

 

 

Kowneyn

[Ace of Spadez]

Kowneyn,

 

Surely you have to differentiate those who have committed gross war crimes, and others. So far, the only evidense out there doesn't conclusively point that Riyale committed war crimes. Yes he was morraly responsible. No one can defend that.

 

Besides, leaders are a reflection of their soceities. The fact that Riyale is the president today, is due to the amnesty that was given to those who have worked for the former regime, that are not notorious for warcrimes. All the people you listed including Riyale have a questionable past. Yet, they are there, because the people voted for them, because they believe they are in the best interests of the Somaliland republic. Even today, there are issues like the arrest of Boqor Buurmadow. Don't think I'm neither absolving any one, I just think that if we are going to condem Riyale, then we better get ready to start condeming a lot of people. That was my argument through out. He doesn't belong on the Notorious List.

 

Mobb....as far as my sources tell me, Raqiya is not even married....her artical was written to ask the people if they want to vote for some one who is alleged to have committed crimes... and i commend her for pressing the issue, like you said..those who hold office should be scrutinized like what happened to Bill Clinton...

[Qudhac]

Spadez

 

dont bother wasting your time with these people, they have no intrest about crime or justice the only thing that drives their sorry souls is their hatred and jealousy for Somaliland, just remind them that somaliland has reduced them to this low point of throwing words as that is the only thing they can do now, scream from afar,

 

i would like to remind these tormented souls that when "they" their likes had more than words somaliland and its peopl left your swiming in mud showed them the door, so let them pent their hatred and frusration on Riyaale or any ones else cos its water off our back.

 

 

but one thing is for sure i would rather call democratically elected riyale as my president rather than C/Y Ina yey who holds the unfortunate people of north east somalia hostage by the barrel of a gun. our thoughts must be with them and the hundreds of families which he slaughtered their sons, while overthrowing the democratically elected leader of that region.

[General Duke]

Nassir, Qudhac and the rest

Still day dreaming about Somaliland are we.

 

Somalilanders arguments are trash, you claim to be victims yet you appoint the victimisers as your leaders. You support and cheer for those who butchered your kinsmen and yet you blame us for their actions, you blame Mogadishu and Bossaso and Marka you deport your poor southern kinsmen and yet sing for Uncle Riyaale. You insult Burmadow a simple sultan and sing for Uncle Riyaale.

 

Silly folks, if Somalia is divisable why cant SOOL, SANAG and CAYN break from Hargaysa isent this their choice as is your choice to break from Somalia? [relevent question for Sooyaal]

 

Why is the Colonial borders so sacred and the Somali national borders recognised by the UN and international law not relevent?

 

Nassir and Qudhac and Dust some how believe in Somaliland when its first President the late Tuur obviously did not, when Egal a PM of unity and one of the Architects of the republic did [when he won]. How easy for Afweynes officers to become ministers in Hargaysa how easy for RIYAALE to arrest elders all for the promise of Mandeeq. Yet I can understand Riyaale he earns more than most at £500,000 a YEAR while Hargaysa airport was about to close for £30,000 and its major Hospital was on show for Comic Relief. However Nassir [in need of Anger management] and Qudhac [the brave] and Dust and the list goes on believe in Riyaale and this myth.

 

Horn Afrique,

 

I wonder do you support Somaliland now because RIYAALE is in charge and kinda makes it ok as he worke for the late Uncle Afweyne?

 

Like I said before nothing better or more relevent and real than Somalia a federal or not but a state from Zaylac to Juba ........

[Gabbal]

Horn Afrique,

 

I wonder do you support Somaliland now because RIYAALE is in charge and kinda makes it ok as he worke for the late Uncle Afweyne?

You wish it don't you? Petty remarks 2cents here, here :rolleyes:

 

I support "Somaliland" on its peace and development, because it is worthy of it. Support for seccession has nothing to do it with it

[Saalixa]

ACUDKEEEEEEE

this debate is going like h#e*$!ll!

Where is everyone respect, Themes of brotherhood you all learn at the dugsi or Mosque? it all vanishes in the air whne it comes to Qabyaalid.

 

S/land would get independence or not will make no difference> to day there is no difference >they are segregated now so what differencce would it make if they got that so called" recognition" which i don't believe in merely because people need not other country's aid and recognition that they are capable and independnent> they can do it on their own, like thye have always done and which i respect them for.

[Kowneyn]

Spadez:

 

This recent cartoon in haatuf answers some of the questions you posed: