What's your point of view?

[Peplow throb]

Does? Multicultural work, every country that has multicultural society either got or had a problem with or had it in the past. Look at Iraq, U.S.A and Europe, so I come to the conclusion that multicultural doesn’t work. What do you think?

[Ms DD]

Salaam

 

The idea of multiculturalism is commendable and it rarely works. I was thinking the other day of this country (UK). Most of the indigenous population has moved to the suburbs. Some commute to London. London is the most cosmopolitan city in the world. Now that many European countries are being allowed into the EU, already the indigenous population are complaining about. According to the BBC, Nearly 600,000 people have come to the UK from the 10 countries which joined the European Union in 2004 and more are expected after the entrence of more countries (Bulgarians and Romanians within 5months) .

 

SOme argue that it is another 600,000 people entitled to benefits,schools and a free health service not to mention low paid jobs, which incidently the employers are happy with(More wage slaves for big business to exploit, and more power given to them to pay even lower wages to those already here), unlike the mortgage paying British person.

 

 

I am digressing here, but the point i am making is:

If we were in Somalia, would we be willing to open our doors to anyone Tom, Dick and Harry? I dont think so. Sometimes i do understand where the nationalist parties are coming from. Having said this, I am glad that this country has kindly open its doors for Somali refugees where no other 'muslim' governemt has not afforded us the same treatment.

[ElPunto]

What does 'works' mean? I would say multiculuralism does work - as proof look at the harmonious intermingling in Canada and the States. Multiculturalism works when the host society allows newcomers a place in the new society. Some countries are better at this than others.

[Socod_badne]

Multiculturalism is abysmal failure. Just look at Europe, where entire immigrant communities live in insulated enclaves, completely cut-off from the society they're embedded in. And to certain extent Canada, where fault lines are fast appearing.

 

At it's core, multiculturalism is an idea premised on cultural purity and that purity shouldn't be tampered with. Rather celebrated and shielded. In other words, rather than encourage cultures to adopt, borrow and shed some of their ethos to facilitate the greater well being off all involved, they're encouraged to stay the way they are. Of coure, human history shows cultures can never be pure, they must change with time or be left to rue. Thus, why you have brewing social upheavals with recent immigrants (last 20-30 yrs) in the West.

 

The exception is the US. Being a land of immigrants, their system gives greater importance to assimilation or economic integration than touchy-feely, feel good idealism of multiculturalism.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

Multiculturalism is abysmal failure. Just look at Europe, where entire immigrant communities live in insulated enclaves, completely cut-off from the society they're embedded in. And to certain extent Canada, where fault lines are fast appearing.

 

At it's core, multiculturalism is an idea premised on cultural purity and that purity shouldn't be tampered with. Rather celebrated and shielded. In other words, rather than encourage cultures to adopt, borrow and shed some of their ethos to facilitate the greater well being off all involved, they're encouraged to stay the way they are. Of coure, human history shows cultures can never be pure, they must change with time or be left to rue. Thus, why you have brewing social upheavals with recent immigrants (last 20-30 yrs) in the West.

 

The exception is the US. Being a land of immigrants, their system gives greater importance to assimilation or economic integration than touchy-feely, feel good idealism of multiculturalism.

Wow - I must say - today is 'retard' day for you because you keep making all sorts of asinine statements. Everyone lives in enclaves - rich, poor, Christians, Jews, people who like the same activities(ie. tennis, golf etc), retirees, expatriates etc. Is that a sign of failure? Immigrant communities in Europe are isolated and insulated because the larger society has not allowed them the space to be themselves and partake of the society at the same time. Canada, US and Australia/NZ are different. And the UK is decent too.

 

The concept behind multiculturalism is to encourage and nurture cultural intermingling, borrowing, learning and openness. And this is very much in evidence in the country I'm in. I am a happy Muslim, black immigrant in Canada.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

Wow - I must say - today is 'retard' day for you because you keep making all sorts of asinine statements.

 

Grow up!

 

 

Everyone lives in enclaves - rich, poor, Christians, Jews, people who like the same activities(ie. tennis, golf etc), retirees, expatriates etc.

 

Well, rich and poor people do live in their own enclaves, that just reinforces my point. It's an issue of economics, not social. But the rest of what you said is complete nonsense. Where I live Christians live side-be-side with Jews, muslims, Hindus, Budhist, animist etc.

 

 

Is that a sign of failure?

 

Depends. In the case of Europe, where say muslims have to ditch their cultural baggages if they want to be accepted or risk being pushed to the fringes of society, then YES. In the case of the US, where you can bring along some of your home culture to the melting pot resulting in the full acceptance and given equal oppurtunity for social mobility, then NO.

 

 

Immigrant communities in Europe are isolated and insulated because the larger society has not allowed them the space to be themselves and partake of the society at the same time. Canada, US and Australia/NZ are different. And the UK is decent too.

 

I know. Duh! That's exactly what I said.

 

 

The concept behind multiculturalism is to encourage and nurture cultural intermingling, borrowing, learning and openness.

That's your definition of multiculturalism. Not the one accepted by most people. For example, according to dictionary.com, multiculturalism is idea of several distinct cultures co-existing and mainting their distinctiveness. No mention of borrowing or learning. Canadian Multiculturalism Act stresses preserving and enhancing cultural heritages, not assimilating.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

 

quote:

---

Immigrant communities in Europe are isolated and insulated because the larger society has not allowed them the space to be themselves and partake of the society at the same time. Canada, US and Australia/NZ are different. And the UK is decent too.

 

I know. Duh! That's exactly what I said.

 

 

[/QB]

If you agree with that - how can you say that multiculturealism has failed? The societies/countries have failed at enacting the very essence of multiculturalism.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

If you agree with that - how can you say that multiculturealism has failed?

 

First, I never said multiculturalism has failed. That's a judgement best left to posterity. However, what I did was it is a failure where it's practiced: Europe and to lesser extent Canada for example.

 

As I have said already multiculturalism is flawed idea, an unattainable dream, at variance with human history. Good intentioned albiet untenable one. It posits different cultures should remain what they are, be proud of it and keep it that way. To the extent Laws are enacted to protect their distinctiveness. The flaw in this position is cultures aren't static, they're fluid... either a culture must be responsive to changing times or wither away.

 

Contrast multiculturalism with assimilation and you'll see the pragmaticism of the latter... how lands where assimilation is official policy, everyone feels (after sometime) more attached to their adopted nation's mainstream culture than the one they left behind. In America, you can be any hyphenated american, be proud of it, have parades celebrating your ancestoral home's culture but you're american first and foremost. When you land in America, you're forced to ADOPT or risk getting your fair piece of the pie. And to mainstream American culture, adopt is also the modus operandi... You have multicultural Neatherlands enacting draconian laws like forcing new immigrant claimants to watch videos of dutch social mores... in France, muslim girls can't wear the Hijab in government buildings and on and on. None of this takes place in the US because cultural differences are incorporated into the melting pot.

 

 

The societies/countries have failed at enacting the very essence of multiculturalism.

If they did, good thing. It's time they accept the best way to reduce social frictions is assimilation. The melting-pot example of the US.

[Che -Guevara]

Multiculturalism would work in favorably economic conditions.

 

 

I wonder what the Jews of Europe from world war II era have to say about Multiculturalism?

 

The Point.... the States, Canada and New Zealand are diffirent, but all these countries have one thing in common, the original inhabitants' culture is nearly wiped out or relagated to second class status.

 

One also wonders how the whites of America would react to the every growing Hispanic culture in the America as the population of these immigrants continue to surge.

[Aaliyyah]

Asalaamu alaikum,

Multicultural is significant and essential to construct a society. For instance, Toronto is multicultural city, and certainly multicultural approach did work. Since, different people with different cultures, perspectives, and opinion are relating with one another for the goal of refining this city. I really support the notion of making more multicultural cities, because people with different background will learn from one another, you will learn to appreciate other cultures, while maintaining your culture and not assimilating. But, what is sad is that Somali people only lived outside of Somalia for the past 15 years, and currently lost their culture, language, and honor :mad: . Somali parents and their children are having hard time communicating that could be due to language difficulty, and also perception distinction. Kids observe life in different way than parents do, due to the fact that we live in different environment, and children are exposed to different cultures. Since there is communication gap, certainly the parents can’t teach their kids their culture, and I wonder whet is going to be left of our culture 20 yrs from today?? allow sahal umuuraha :confused:

[Peplow throb]

Your current opinion doesn’t convince me. After I conducted a long research on whether multiculturalism work, I carried out a poll on 1’300 people 700 people said multiculturalism doesn’t work 300 said don’t know and 300 said maybe.

[Ibtisam]

^^^sounds like a load of bull! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

quote:Originally posted by ThePoint:

If you agree with that - how can you say that multiculturealism has failed?

 

First, I never said multiculturalism

has

failed. That's a judgement best left to posterity. However, what I did was it

is

a failure where it's practiced: Europe and to lesser extent Canada for example.

 

How has multiculuralism failed in Canada?

[Aaliyyah]

the point yes, you have a point there canada certainly did not fail in term of multiculturism. I am proud to say we live in multicularal society yet live peacefully, the same can not be said about somalia. Somalia certainly isnt multiculural, it has one cultur, yet we are having civil war? :rolleyes: Fatman you just said you did a research on multiculturism? where are you talking about? since it is not the same location wise. :confused:

[Baashi]

What is multiculturalism? Any1? You would be surprised how wrong some of the folks here are once the term is properly defined

 

What sort of social arrangement the Communitarian concept advocates for? Any1? Can any1 connect the dots here?