She's A Thoroughly Modern Muslim

[Resistance]

^ Bro is rather evident to see who has been led a blind alley. Modern, Extremesit etc. is used by the meadia for a specific reason to cause divisions amongst Muslims.

[Blessed]

Ngonge,

 

Myopic mullahs, eh?

 

I'll respond after I watch the show and hopefully by then you’d have shed your amiable arrogance after days fasting. InshaAllah!

 

p.s I don't take offence with the terms modern, traditional, liberal if used in the right context, I've problem with the attached connotations when Islam and Muslims are discussed in the media.

[NGONGE]

^^^ Didn't mean to come across as arrogant in this instance, ayeeyo. Still, I don't think watching the show will make much difference to your argument. After all, it's the titles you seemed to be against and not the women themselves!

 

Ps

Lest you mistake the myopic mullah comment to apply to all mullahs, I'm only talking about myopic mullahs only. I think the media refers to them as fundamentalists! Myopic is much kinder, wouldn't you say?

 

 

Resistance,

 

Is that your idea of a debate? You're being unnecessarily obstinate my friend. Rather than a tiresome throwaway comment, care to stand up for your argument and furnish it with some logical substance?

 

ps

If you're going to go into a long explanation only to end up with the tiresome old idea of a Jewish conspiracy then I'd rather you just ignore me and not bother. Anything else, of course, will be gratefully received.

[Khayr]

Salams,

 

Originally posted by Zenobia:

Kalaf and Dabshid

 

How about you obey Allah by following This Command;

 

quote:

---

Tharnee waman khalaqtu waheedan

Thats not actually just a command but a curse and an oath by Allah to deal with the treachery and blasphemy of Al Walid ibn al Mughirah, a rich poet of Quraysh. He used to frequent the Prophet (sallahu caliyhe wasilm) and when Abu Jahl heard of this, he approached him and questioned his honor.

 

Al-Walid ibn al-Mughirah was in the habit of visiting the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, and Abu Bakr so much so that the Quraysh thought he was going to embrace Islam. Abu Jahl then said to him: ‘The Quraysh claim that you visit Muhammad and Ibn Abi Quhafah to share food with them’. Al-Walid said to the Quraysh: ‘You are people of noble lineages and sound minds, but you claim that Muhammad is mad. Have you ever seen him seized by a bout of madness?’ They said: ‘No!’ He said: ‘And you claim that he is a soothsayer; have you ever seen him soothsaying?’ They said: ‘No!’ He said: ‘You claim that he is a poet; have you ever heard him utter poetry?’ They said: ‘No!’ He said: ‘You claim that he is a liar; have you ever caught him lying?’ They said: ‘No!’ The Quraysh said to al-Walid: ‘What is he, then?’ He thought for a while, looked and frowned and then said: ‘He is nothing but a sorcerer’, hence Allah’s saying (For lo! he did consider; then he planned…) [74:12] up to His saying (This is naught else than magic from of old)”.

This story is in the tafsirs of this ayat in the major works such as Qurtabi and Razi.

 

The point of that ayat is to show that betraying and insulting the Prophet (sallahu caliyhe wasilm) was no light matter to Allah and Al Walid's actions warranted a strong reaction-straight from Allah.

 

This ayat is not a testament to western ideals of "ye judgment me not" or "no one can judge me but God" (I think what was 2pac! lol).

 

Intelligence is discrenment and discrenment is the ability to JUDGE btwn right and wrong. This is what makes Bani Adam different from Animals (or as Johnny Boy like to say-His Ancestors! )

 

A believer can make a judgment and if anyone has a right to judge it is the Believer.

 

What is in question is the mannerism in which the judgement is made? i.e. verbalized, physically, etc. Its a question of Adab also which often most of us forget when judging others.

 

Fi Amanillah

[-Lily-]

^^^ And I'm sure some ppl count themselves among the upstanding Muslims who never sin in their daily life. Warning someone and accusing them are two entirely different matters.

 

Ngonge,

These sort of programmes are simultaneously positive and patronizing, in effect what they are saying is 'Oh look, apart from having a love for blowing people up, some of them actually have brains, work, and have kids, and they joke! Oh my God, she uses the same chocolate brownie recipe as I do! This is very confusing, they must be normal then, quiet normal if only it wasn't for that tinee tiny thing called Islam. What a shame'.

[NGONGE]

^^ But isn't that the truth in most cases. Aren't you and I normal people (Zenobia said I was arrogant so I'm playing it down a little)?

 

Is it really that wrong to show others that our women are intelligent, independent and Muslim, all at the same time?

 

 

There are many people with awful agendas talking for Islam in the UK today. I needn't point them out because I've already done that in countless threads in the past. When I see that the BBC is profiling normal, everyday Muslims (that could be my sister, wife, cousin or friend) I'm fully in support of such programs. It's much better than giving the spotlight to an Abu Hamza or a Salman Rushdie to be honest.

[Ibtisam]

Khayr:

 

Surrah Al-Mutaffifin states after making explicit the relation between morality and the doctrine of the Hereafter: That the deeds of the wicked are already being recorded in the black list of the culprits, and in the Hereafter they will meet with utter ruin.It goes on to say that: the best end of the virtuous has been described and it has been laid that their deeds are being recorded in the list of the exalted people, on which are appointed the angels nearest to Allah. ( I hope you are getting my point, we do not need to police people's actions, good or bad, everything is being recorded and each will meet with their action)

 

I read in the tasfeer that although the verse “But they (disbelievers, sinners) had not been sent as watchers over them (the believers)” (Verse 33 in Surrah Al-Mutaffifin) specificly speaks in a context (the none believers V the belivers) it can include and be applied to Muslims who make It their business to pick on others sins, with no intention of helping them, as it happens in this forum frequently, to the extent that some are condoning people to the state of muuafiaq.

 

Allah Aclam

 

I could not agree more with Lily's comment regarding these kinda of programmes, it is aimed at the average Joe who thinks our full time job is to blow up people, getting beaten up by our husband, no english and strange culture. Hence if they are doen in the right way, I have no problems with them, and Like Ngonge said I'd rather have these kind, instead of Abu Hamas and undercover mosques which just reinforce these crazy ideas that we are all crazy violent muslims.

[Khayr]

Lilly said:

 

These sort of programmes are simultaneously positive and patronizing, in effect what they are saying is 'Oh look, apart from having a love for blowing people up, some of them actually have brains, work, and have kids, and they joke! Oh my God, she uses the same chocolate brownie recipe as I do! This is very confusing, they must be normal then, quiet normal if only it wasn't for that tinee tiny thing called Islam. What a shame'.

Funny enough they rarely show a clip of a muhajibah or niqaabi who is tradional in attire and mind set and happens to be a home maker. What is often shown is a sound bit of those sisters agreeing with the idea of "Jihad" and responding to leading questions that Sound Bit Journalist often raise to traditionally thinking muslims.

 

i.e. Niqabi offers tea to the reporter, reporter asks the first question-Do you support the killing of innocent people?

:eek:

Journalism at its best :rolleyes:

 

Here is an example of a leading or rhetorical question-

Is it really that wrong to show others that our women are intelligent, independent and Muslim, all at the same time?

The question really is-Why the interest in Muslim Women?

 

Why the overwhelming interst in praising "modern" muslim women and demonizing a muslim women that is a home mamker or wants to go to a madrassah?

[NGONGE]

^^ I like the roundabout way you quoted me there, Khayr.

 

Now. I'm not sure if you're being obtuse here or just letting your anger run with you. Never mind, none of it matters.

 

The comparison here was made by you and not me (or the program, as far as I'm aware)! You're projecting your own fears and worries, saaxib. Nobody is demonising homemakers or those wanting to go to madrassahs! However, many in the Western media portray Muslim women as oppressed, backwards and uneducated. All of course are true. But that's not all that a Muslim woman is and this program (from what I've read above) aims to show the other side. I don't see what your objection here is.

 

It's laughable that you should talk about rhetorical questions then come up with one of your own. What do you mean why the interest in Muslim women? Have you not noticed that, these days, there is an interest in EVERYTHING Muslim?

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Ghanima:

I read in the tasfeer that although the verse “But they (disbelievers, sinners) had not been sent as watchers over them (the believers)” (Verse 33 in Surrah Al-Mutaffifin) specificly speaks in a context (the none believers V the belivers) it can include and be applied to Muslims who make It their business to pick on others sins, with no intention of helping them, as it happens in this forum frequently, to the extent that some are condoning people to the state of muuafiaq.

Thats a very modern and self serving way of "re-interpreting" that idea. :confused:

 

Its like quoting an ayat that says that Allah loves that righteous and saying that Hitler was a righteous devout Christian and thus loved by Allah.

 

How can the Muslim be equated (= )with the Non-Muslim? Especially in that ayat that. Here are is the rest of that surat that highlights my point:

 

34. So today, that is, the Day of Resurrection, the believers will be laughing at the disbelievers,

 

35. upon couches, in Paradise, gazing, out from their dwellings at the disbelievers while they are being tortured; and they will laugh at them just as they, the disbelievers, had laughed at them in the world.

 

36. Have the disbelievers been requited for what they used to do? Yes, indeed!

 

[RedSea]

These type of Muslims are very weak. They'll do anything to sort of not get 'attention' from the non Muslims and fit in. I am not going to accuse them, I'll just leave to Allah. But they really need to practice the reall Islam as there is no such thing 'moderate Muslim'.

 

BTW...what are the people so pissed about, Khalaf and Dabshid siad what I would say outloud.

[N.O.R.F]

Let the sisters be and try to encourage them. If not keep schtum!

 

How many encourage sisters to cover up when on their daily travels tolow?

[Elysian]

I think that we as muslims have become hypersensitive. Media in the west have been throwing dirt at us for so long, that when the rare occasion someone in all honesty wants to give us a chance, we automatically respond by barking. Not saying that we should be less critical, but just think twice in what context we are delivering our protests.

 

Without having seen the actual documentary, in general terms, does portraying muslims as normal people contribute to the islamophobic tendencies in the western societies? does it do more harm than good? Considering the storm of anti-Islamic, anti-muslim propaganda, I find this type of documentaries a much sought-after breeze. Could the media do better - of course! I'd love to see on tv a muslim women talking about the stock market, the greenhouse effect, or whatever and nothing is mentioned about her religion, muslim outfit, terrorism, or honour killing.

 

For people to conduct a discussion or analyze things there is a necessity for categorizing things, hence muslims are grouped into modern, fundamentalist, extremist etc. Nothing wrong with that, but what is dangerous is that it is west that defines who or what goes into each category. So you could have a news reporter saying something about an islamic party in Indonesia, for instance, and refer to them as being islamic extremists because they support al-Qaida, are against women attending schools, and are pro-sharia laws. Now who said that believing in sharia laws classifies you as an extremist? The consequence of this is that you always have to prove you you're not an extremist.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Northerner:

Let the sisters be and try to encourage them. If not keep schtum!

 

How many encourage sisters to cover up when on their daily travels tolow?

Its a Social Taboo to ask another muslimah to wear hijab or ask another muslim to come to salat etc. However, you can always ask them to finish University and why they can't get a job because those questions help in producing the "ideal citizen".

 

Proof is in the pudding, ask any of your relatives why they don't wear hijab and/or observe the beard and/or pray salat and see what they say to you and their reaction as a oppossed to asking them why they haven't finished school or found a job.

 

Elysian,

 

Its a question of what is defined as Normality-the Norm?

 

And does the Norm = the Good?

 

For if it does, then any practicing muslim with a traditional islamic mind set can and is often deemed to be "Abnormal".

[N.O.R.F]

Its a Social Taboo to ask another muslimah to wear hijab or ask another muslim to come to salat etc. However, you can always ask them to finish University and why they can't get a job because those questions help in producing the "ideal citizen".

 

Proof is in the pudding, ask any of your relatives why they don't wear hijab and/or observe the beard and/or pray salat and see what they say to you and their reaction as a oppossed to asking them why they haven't finished school or found a job.

A social taboo? I dont think mentioning the need for her to wear hijab on a website she will probably never visit is any better saxib. My point was that every Muslim is never perfect all of the time throughout their whole lives. Who knows she may have started wearing her Hijaab already. The benefit of the doubt should be given together with positive discourse where possible. Outlandish comments such calling them 'munaafiqs' is simply out of order.