Too young for hijab?

[N.O.R.F]

I have not been convinced by any of these arguments.

Me too

[Johnny B]

A view in its own right could be, that religious indoctrination of children as young as 4,5, etc is a vile tool, used by insecure parents against their kids' underdeveloped cognitive abilities.

Main reason if not the sole one beeing, to teach the vulnerable children accept the parents' religious doctrines without having to worry about serious challenge of critical thinking.

religious indoctrination of children is nothing but a futile attempt to discourage children to question and or challenge the very so called truths in their parents religions,

which perverts the future critical thinking skills of these children, hence, religious indoctrination of children is not an education as claimed but the opposite, namely it lays a cognitive hinder in the mindes of those vulnerable children.

How many of you adults of today can't rationally reconcile what you been religiousely indoctrinated in as a kid and what you've experienced in real life , yet hold to or value more what you been indoctrinated in?

Lastly , children lack the cognitive capacity to completely understand or critically question the information being presented to them with an informed personal opinion, and that is the whole point.

 

Norf,

If the answer to your question " why did my beloved father take me to the mosque on a Friday as a 4 year old when I obviously didn't know what was going on? " could be anything but another reason to drag your young ones to the mosque and make the act a cultural virtue that never gets explained.

 

Seriously though, what is the answer and why letting you as a child of 4 do things you din't compeletely understand their real implications is a -must-do-thing?

[Ibtisam]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ Indoctrination here we come.

 

Ibti,

You just made that list up. Sounds like a sexed up advert for the Hijab. A load of hogwash of course.

Ngonge I happen to believe it, I was told this at young age. :cool:

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

A view in its own right could be, that religious indoctrination of children as young as 4,5, etc is a vile tool, used by insecure parents against their kids' underdeveloped cognitive abilities.

Main reason if not the sole one beeing, to teach the vulnerable children accept the parents' religious doctrines without having to worry about serious challenge of critical thinking.

religious indoctrination of children is nothing but a futile attempt to discourage children to question and or challenge the very so called truths in their parents religions,

which perverts the future critical thinking skills of these children, hence, religious indoctrination of children is not an education as claimed but the opposite, namely it lays a cognitive hinder in the mindes of those vulnerable children.

How many of you adults of today can't rationally reconcile what you been religiousely indoctrinated in as a kid and what you've experienced in real life , yet hold to or value more what you been indoctrinated in?

Lastly , children lack the cognitive capacity to completely understand or critically question the information being presented to them with an informed personal opinion, and that is the whole point.

 

Norf,

If the answer to your question " why did my beloved father take me to the mosque on a Friday as a 4 year old when I obviously didn't know what was going on? " could be anything but another reason to drag your young ones to the mosque and make the act a cultural virtue that never gets explained.

 

Seriously though, what is the answer and why letting you as a child of 4 do things you din't compeletely understand their real implications is a -must-do-thing?

Why bother writing all that if you disagree with a 5 year old ASWELL AS a 25 year old wearing the hijab? To you it doesn't matter when, as you view it as being wrong anyway. Is there any point in explaining to you how kids are/could/should be taught/encouraged at a young age to observe their faith when you left that same faith? It would only be futile

 

could be anything but another reason to drag your young ones to the mosque and make the act a cultural virtue that never gets explained.

Speak for yourself mate

[NGONGE]

^^ Well, it's mostly either wrong or exaggerated drivel.

[Cara.]

Ibti, you're not serious about not letting little girls run and scream in a playground?

 

Johnny, how do you suggest a parent raise their child without sharing any of their values and beliefs? And from a religious parent's point of view, isn't it more important to save their beloved child from eternal damnation than to avoid 'indoctrinating' them? I would think NOT teaching them would be parental neglect and indifference, if anything.

[Ibtisam]

^^^Cara depends on their age. If theya re older only if it is a girls only school

 

Ngonge:

Whatever it was, it worked for me, so I see no reason to change it. I refuse to narrow down the virtue of hijab to Men's pervertedness and lack of self control :cool:

[NGONGE]

^^ Nobody asked you to narrow it down to anything. All we ask is for you to explain your reasoning. The way this above reply of yours comes across makes it sound that Johnny was right all along. Can't you see that?

[Johnny B]

^Norf, ha cadhon dee! ( huba huba , my Qaldan lessons really paid off )

 

And hey, i don't disagree with 25 years old covering herself, boy, it's about time i let you in on a secret .. i find them yummy .

 

Seriously Norf, they're two different subjects.

[Ibtisam]

Ngonge: I can see it perfectly well I'm just not of the crew that likes to argue with Johnny. I mean what is the point?? :cool:

 

As for narrowing it down. The arguments on this thread are centred on those ideas and the inability for kids to understand this or have the desirable features to cover up! I'm simply pointing out that it is not all about this. Go figure.

[N.O.R.F]

Its not about how Johnny sees things (we know his track record).

 

I'm yet to see a proper argument against the hijab at a young age. Indoctrination and a perceived lack of knowledge on the part of parents (un-provable of course) are not enough. Show me the money and I may just pull my finger out and end this debate.

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by Ibtisam:

1)That hijab is first and foremost an act of obedience to Allah and to his prophet (pbuh).

 

2)That the hijab is Allah Shield and protection, without it you have broken Allah’s shield.

 

3)That the hijab is Taqwah; by this I mean that is fear of running counter to the will of allah. Taqwa is based on the Love of Allah, if I teach my child to love allah, they will have no problem understanding this.

 

4)The hijab is Imaan, It is central to their believe.

 

[/QB]

The above can simply be summed up as: God said, and therefore you must obey. Its not really much of an explanation at all. If you tell a child 'God said this', they would most likely follow it up with 'But why did God say that?'. A child must be able to understand their role in the wider context in th community and how their actions and looks effect that. And although kids might understand this, they may not appreciate it until they are old enough to have be part of that experience.

 

5) The hijab is Haya, morality etc.

 

^Haya and morality has little if anything at all to do with how one looks but how one acts.

[NGONGE]

^^ Heh. How sneaky of you, North. YOU were supposed to answer this question.

 

ps

North and Ibti,

 

This is not about arguing with Johnny. He has valid points. It's a public forum. If you don't want to talk to him personally then don't talk to him but you will still have to deal with his well-put argument.

[Ibtisam]

^^I did not read what he said, well put or not.

 

The above can simply be summed up as:

God said, and therefore you must obey.

Its not really much of an explanation at all. If you tell a child 'God said this', they would most likely follow it up with 'But why did God say that?'. A child must be able to understand their role in the wider context in th community and how their actions and looks effect that. And although kids might understand this, they may not appreciate it until they are old enough to have be part of that experience.

That is the long and short of it, thanks Serenity. You can explain why they must obey god, without drawing on the wider community. Although I'm sure it helps.

 

 

5) The hijab is Haya, morality etc.

 

^

Haya and morality has little if anything at all to do with how one looks but how one acts.

 

Go back to the drawing board Ibs

Are you sure dear?? :cool:

[NGONGE]

^^ You're just being petulant now. Do you want me to quote him so that you can read it from a post of mine instead?