^^ I see you're still being emotional, sister. Tell me when you've calmed down if you require a response to your above rant.

^^^ Heh. I bet you have a complete vision of a perfect “Somaliaâ€, saaxib. One where everyone of note hails from Puntland. (only teasing).

Qacbaro. I looked at my screen and saw your name on every topic, saaxib. Carry on

I have a friend who came out of prison recently. He spent twelve months locked in a small cell. He’s very withdrawn and depressed at the moment. I too, had the bright idea of organising a prison shower for him! We’ll invite everyone round (might even hire out a big hall and a musical band). I’ll insist that all the guests come armed with suitable gifts. The theme of this party will be “FREEDOMâ€. This might sound idiotic to you but there is method behind this madness of mine. I’m trying to cheer my friend up and show him that now he’s out of prison, he’s free to do anything he likes. Anything! Even organise parties celebrating his release. There is no harm in organising such a party, is there? Sheeko kale ban idiin haya, ma doonayo en aan af gaalo ku qoro sheekadan. Wa enaan ceebta yada asturna ( marka ega raali ahaada hadaan af somaliga ku yara ceyaaro ). Sheekadan aad ka hadlaysaan waxay I xasuusisi waxay Somalido London joogta sameen jireen marko qof cosob Somali ka imin jiray. Waxa loo sameen jiray “ Welcome to London†xaflad (Hada waa qof Somalia ka yimid o ingreeska esko dhiibe doona!). Sheekada ban la yaabi jiray, lakin markan arkay sheekadan fortanka aad la timadeen, kuwa “welcome to London†sameen jiray waxay ela noqdeen dad maskax eyo celmi leh. Qofka cosob ayaay farxada ingreeska la qaybsan jireen, edinka na, gabadh la foray bad nacasnimadeed la qaybsanaysan. Alahoma dadka wada astor.

This thread makes no sense at all, saaxib. Why are they furious at the BBC?

Eh? :eek: You call him a weak leader and the Israelis call him a terrorist? Who to believe, huh? :rolleyes:

^^^^ Thanks brother. That was a much more interesting reading than the article above. I don’t know if he’s what you think he is. He could very easily be an ordinary person venting his (understandable) frustration and anger at the state of the Muslim world today. His amateurish attacks on the scholars lead me to believe so. I seriously doubt if he belongs to any particular “groupâ€. I’m glad you’ve clarified the point about the “fatwa†on Osama Bin Laden’s acts being made two years prior to the September 2001 “incident†(regardless of the argument of whether he was behind those attacks or not). It really doesn’t matter if I see eye to eye with the Salafi’s, Hezb Ut Tahrir or Jamacat Ut Tableegh. I would still read their articles and seriously think them over if they were well written and accompanied with proofs of how they’ve reached their conclusions. The “political†trash above (with the utmost respect to the sister who posted it of course) is an affront to any zealous Muslim’s intelligence.

Reer Eray Bixin.. Thought you might like the following (unrelated to the topic). Short film with background Music

^^^^ warya..adigo ma wax walbaad ka jawabi doonta cawa? loool

^^^^^ Heh.

holy lord and saints above! Heh. Another similar shock or two and you’ll be singing “Our father hallowed be thy name†or do a “Hail Marryâ€. Heh.

You seem to be hooked on the author's merits, if you want to know more about the credentials of the author, a search engine might be a good place to start. That was the first thing I did, brother. Found lots of articles but no info about this guy. Like I said, he raises some very good points. He questions the Muslim’s habit of kowtowing to America and points out the various “illogical†fatwas! He blames some of it on the manipulation and misinterpretation of the Islamic texts to suit the goals of these “deviant†scholars (a very serious accusation). As an idea, this has crossed my mind before. I too questioned such things. I however did not act as an authority on such issues and write up articles attacking the scholars. Again, who is he and what qualifies him to make such declarations? Viking, if you think you don’t need to be a theologian to make such attacks on the scholars of Islam then you’re a better a man than I, friend. I go for proof, saaxib. I don’t take the words of every Tom, Dick and Harry that decides to attack the scholars using sweet words and trying to appeal to my logic and emotions. I actually prefer that he spoke in general terms rather than going into which scholar said what and working from there- it gives the piece more of an impact and credibility. That’s the worrying thing sister. He’s tarring them all with the same brush but because some of the points he is making are true and some make sense his whole article looks very credible. It’s not though, not at all. As far as I can see (and until I know more about this individual) this article is nothing but a rant masquerading as genuine analysis. Don’t fall for every person who decides to besmirch the scholars (even if he seemed to be right) if you don’t know anything about him. What was the Al Azahar Sheikh’s fatwa? Any of you read it in full? Why didn’t this guy include it in his article and decimate it piece by piece? How about the ones in Kuwait & Saudi Arabia (as Viking and Rahima say)? Why didn’t he pass on their words fully and then question them individually? Like I said in my earlier post, this is not a political discussion. It’s not and should not be treated in the same way you would treat an article defaming the character of a president or King.

Somalis are homophobes? Shock, horror, shock, horror! :rolleyes: Why do you all seem shocked to hear of Somali homosexuals? It’s even more laughable when you hear the comments about such people not existing “back homeâ€. Homosexuality has always been there. It’s not a new “western†phenomenon. Read your history books, or better still, read the Koran. I can understand someone who’s not very religious embracing homosexuality and “coming out of the closetâ€, but, how do those that staunchly defend and pronounce that they’re Muslim reconcile the two opposing concepts? If you had to “advice†such a person, what would you say to them (once you’ve finished calling them all the names under the sun of course)?

Brother, whilst I love the scholars of Islam, they are not always correct on every situation. The Salafi scholars are divided on the issue of Usama- not all of them disagree with him on the main issue of his war on the west, often they disagree with him on technical matters such as the methods which he employs (and this all comes back to whether or not you recognize “suicide†bombings as a legitimate form of combat). But the author is correct, when it is a defensive jihad, you do not need the command of a khalif to defend yourself. He isn’t saying anything which objects to the teachings of Islam-any scholar would tell you just that. Also, some scholars (namely the pro-Saudi government scholars, not that I am degrading them wal ciyaadu bilaah, I love them) are against Usama for the reason that he speaks out against the royal family. As for the one obscure neo-mod remark, he once again is correct (in my opinion anyway). In an attempt to explain the status of Polygamy in Islam, often many Muslims take on a defensive mode to the point that some even claim that it is not applicable in today’s world. I believe that he was only making the point that we shouldn’t trample on Islam and become apologetic in an attempt to make Islam seem more appealing to the gaalo. I understand the point he was making in regards to America and the West. What I questioned were his specific attacks on these scholars. Rahima, sister, this guy talks about what harms and undermines Islam, his intentions might be good but his delivery is not. He resorted to attacking scholars and institutions without saying who he is and what he represents. He alluded to malicious scholars conspiring with the West but how can we tell if he’s not the malicious one? (doubt it, but it does leave him open to such accusations). You rightly state that the scholars of Islam are not always correct; you didn’t paint them out to be deceivers and seekers of influence and wealth. This Phantom Mullah did. His comments were not directed at the ordinary Muslims (who rightly or wrongly follow “moderate†Islam), his were directed at the scholars. The only one that seems to have escaped his attack is Osama Bin Laden (Is he even recognised as an Islamic scholar?). My position on it being a desperate attack on Muslim scholars stands (despite what my or your logic and desire tells us on their actions). If you’re going to discredit someone you should at least provide proof of your superior knowledge. In the case of it being a “defensive Jihadâ€, well, that too is a controversial argument, which some scholars agree that it indeed is correct, and others arguing that it is not (before we even consider the suicide bombing issue). As I said, he highlighted some good points in the state of Islam today and those reformists, moderates (call them what you like). However, if I were going to agree to such attacks on the Muslim scholars, I’d rather hear it from someone who is at least equal to them or superior to them in his knowledge. Someone who is also not afraid to display that knowledge while in the process of discrediting these scholars! This is akin to someone telling you that the diagnosis of your physician in regards to your illness are all incorrect without showing what gives him the authority to know better (even if he’s right).

Rahima, As an example they claimed that, the Mujahideen led by Shaikh Usamah Bin Laden are not entitled to declare Jihad in the absence of the Islamic State (Khilafah). The subject of Khilafah has been conveniently avoided and now, it has suddenly becomes important! Since, when does anyone need permission to declare or fight a defensive war (Jihad)? When the slaughter of the defenceless Muslims is rampant, even common sense dictates that permission is not required, not even from the Khalif. No matter how much ‘scholarship’, or ‘knowledge’ or ‘wisdom’ one claims to posses, the truth cannot be hidden under such pretexts. What is he saying exactly? He’s implying that it’s ok but does he give his proofs (other than appealing to our logic and common sense?). Need I remind you that your Salafi Sheikhs disagree with him? One obscure neo-mod alleges that the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was in reality a monogamous person and polygamy was primarily a mere convenience to acquire tribal allegiance, amongst other reasons. He declares that this was the opinion of “One obscure neo-mod†yet goes on to dedicate the bulk of his article questioning this point! Like I said, he makes very strong arguments in parts of this article (the apologists, the US appeasing, etc). However, he never states what his position is. He assumes that those reading this will agree that his “way†is right just because he quoted one obscure “scholar†and derided the cronies of the USA. Viking, What sour grapes? The author has clearly stated his standpoint and is against the secularist neo-mods who act like phalangs of the neo-cons. I can see that he did. But he spoiled his argument by using questionable examples and not really saying where HE is coming from. Does he criticise for the sake of criticising? There are a whole lot of scholars who fall into some of the categories he identified. He questions their credentials but never says what his credentials are, saaxib. These are direct attacks on a number of scholars and institutions; the least this guy could have done is to state who or what in his opinion is in the “rightâ€. This is why I think his article is nothing but a severe case of sour grapes. This type of article would work well when criticising political policies or some such. The writer’s objective in such cases would be to score points and undermine the policies and logic of others. When applied to matters of faith however, the writer has to put in a lot more effort and make sure he comes armed with plenty of evidence and proofs that support his (clearly declared) position. Am I being pedantic?

Interesting article. He makes some very strong arguments about the shortcomings of others. He doesn’t really say what “side†he’s on. His words imply that he’s on the right side but he never spells it out, rendering the whole article pointless and smelling of some real sour grapes. It’s unfortunate really; he started so well too.

Ok, Ok. Accept my sincerest apologies and hope all goes well for your cousin. This is a sarcasm-free post by the way.

War, if you really think it’s that serious go and seek some professional help. Don’t go posting about your cousin’s illness in Internet forums. THAT’S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO TELL YOU IN NOT SO MANY WORDS, silly. Viking, I’m afraid I can’t help it. He decided to air his “problems†in public and invited others to comment. Once I commented on how dubious the whole story sounds he threw a hissy fit. Contrary to my better judgment, I actually advised him to SEEK HELP elsewhere, saaxib. Usually, I’d just deride such †heartbreaking†threads. Oh never mind, maybe I’m having a bad day. Here, here saaxib. Sit your cousin down and tell him in no uncertain terms that he’s throwing his life away. Tell him that he’s an adult who’s still in charge of all his faculties and that if he wanted to keep his sanity he has to go and see a specialist. Tell him there is no shame in doing so. Better safe than sorry and all that. If any of this is true, I sincerely hope the guy gets better. Been around discussion forums and characters like this guy far too long to know a windup when I’ve seen one though. :rolleyes:

Heh. I believe I DID “contribute†to this dismal thread, saaxib. You chose to view it as “rambling shitâ€! Ok, lets “brain stormâ€. How about you drug him up and send him home (like they used to do to Mr T in The A Team, he used to be scared of flying you see). :rolleyes:

What’s with this new fashion of resurrecting old threads? :confused: Who’s the culprit? :mad:

Can’t help but be cynical in Internet forums, sister. Wish I had some of your obligatory concern though.

You poor girl. What possessed you to set foot in this forum? Now the vultures will come out and try to brain wash you into taking sides. Oh well, since you’ve got the bottom of your googarad wet with mud already, you might as well roll up your sleeves and get ready for all the mud slinging. :rolleyes: You never know, you might even get a hadeeth or two coming your way.

Amazing! :eek: Dangerous, from the little you described, it doesn’t sound like your cousin has any problems at all. I’m surprised that people have managed to go into all sorts of through diagnosis over the whole thing! Seriously surprised. Like I said, unless there is more to the story than the little circumstantial evidence you’ve just posted I wouldn’t worry about the guy at all. However, if there is more to it than a single 27 year old quitting three jobs and talking about people plotting against him and talking behind his back, I’d say seek help. This is the last place to seek help in though. This place has people like me (and you), saaxib. We’re either very quick to declare his absolute madness or even quicker in ridiculing this Hollywood script of a story. Does my bum look cynical in this? :rolleyes:

It’s been three weeks since RudeBoy has come back to town. His mother has been very impressed with his progress and how he decided to change his rude ways. Today, he was sitting at home talking to his mother about his adventures in Somalia. He was saying: Listen Hoyo, yeah. I’s seen some amazing tings back home, ya get me. Even dat David Blaine is not as good as some of our Somali saaxirs, blud. I’s remember I’s went wid Adeero Abukor to a wadaad’s house, blud. We’s was taking a Nin Walan to da wadad to read qoran on him, hoyo. Da wadad was not a wadaad, ya get me. He was a magic man. He told us to sit down and not speak, blud! We sat down and he switched da lights off, blud. We was sitting down in da dark, hoyo. He’s started to talk to somebody and saying “ dadkan waxay doonayan daaawaoooâ€..I’s was propra scared, hoyo. He was talking to a jinni, blud! I’s heard some woman’s voice saying “ daaaawaaaadaaa waaaan o haaaynaaaaâ€..She was saying we have to pay two hundred dollars for da dawo, hoyo! I’s knew it was a trick but adeero Abukor didn’t listen to me, blud. Da jinni voice kept changing to a man’s voice, hoyo. It was real scary, blud. I’s whispered to da Ninka Waalan if he hears anyting and he said “ daaadkaaan waaaay nooo laaaaba codleeaaanayaaaaanâ€. I’s don’t know what dat means, hoyo! I’s shouldn’t have aksed da ninka walaan anyting. Dey told us to come back tomorrow for da medicine. I’s asked Xaaji Abokur if he believed dem and he’s said yes, hoyo! Dat day, I’s lost my respec for da old man. How can he believe dese khaayins, hoyo? You believe it too, hoyo? For real? You’s Somalians are mad people, for real, mad people. Next time I’s go back to Somalia, I’s gonna take some torch light, some fireworks, a tape recorder, massive speakers, a toy gun and a magic tricks book, blud. I’s gonna fool all a dem people into tinking I’s the best magician in Africa, blud. Ya get me? Dat saaxir put da lights on, brought out a cup of water and he spit in it, blud, he spit in it! He gave it to da Ninka Walan to drink. Hoyo, Ninka Walan is still crazy, ya get me? Da spit water didn’t do anyting for him, blud. Xaaji abokor wanted the saaxir to read quran on me because I’s dhaqan celis. Da saaxir put his hands on my head and closed his eyes. He was reading some tings in Somali. Hoyo, I’s know dat I’s a thug but even I’s know dat quran has no Somali words in it, ya get me? I’s told da saaxir geezer dat I’s know his game. He said I’s got some gaalo irbad in me, hoyo! Man is dumb, ya get me? Of course I’s got gaalo irbad in me. It’s for my health, innit? Hoyo, if you ever go back dere don’t let dis guy trick you, blud. He’s making it up. I’s sure da jinni woman’s voice is his ugly wife dat we saw by da door when we went in! Dem people tink i’s was born shalayto, hoyo.

^^^^^