There are all sorts of conflicting analysis on this issue. Some argue that Israel had long-term plans to destabilise Lebanon and had deliberately allowed the situation to escalate in such a way. Others are claiming that Israel was caught off guard and is now hastily trying to have the upper hand. In the past, whenever an Israeli soldier was captured, the Israeli government was always receptive to negotiation and prisoner exchanges. However, this time, I believe that Israel saw an opportunity to exploit things and decided to obliterate its enemies in Hamas and Hezbollah one by one under the pretext of ‘defending’ itself against unprovoked attacks and ‘kidnap’ of it’s soldiers. On the Palestinian side, Hamas was merely responding to the six-month-old blockade and boycotting of its government by Israel. A blockade that really hurt the Palestinian people. It wanted (as it always did) to use that soldier as a pawn in its bargaining process with the Israelis. The Palestinians understand that very few Israeli soldiers choose to join the army and that most of them are conscripts that have an obligation to do ‘military service’. They also know that this fact compels the Israeli government to guarantee their safety (or at least the safe return of their bodies if they were killed). This is why Israel was ready to exchange thousands of Palestinians/Lebanese prisoners for the remains of one dead Israeli soldier. In this instance, the Palestinians demanded the release of women and children! A very strange demand really. They could have just as easily demanded the release of jailed leaders (such as Marwan Bergouti). They might still ask for that (though he’s not a Hamas member) and they’ll eventually get their man (unless Israel finds its captured soldier first of course). Hezbollah are just as opportunistic here as Israel. It’s conceivable that they only captured the two soldiers in order to have a prisoner exchange of their own (there are thousands of Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails). However, the more likely scenario is that Hezbollah are gambling on Israel’s ability to carry on this offensive. The only way that Hezbollah could lose is if the Israelis invade Lebanon and completely annihilate the Hezbollah machine. This of course is almost impossible. Israel might severely punish Hezbollah and destroy all its weapons but it can’t wipe it off the face of the earth (unless it kills every Lebanese shia). The gamble that Hezbollah are taking here concerns the fact that when the dust settles on this conflict and, Israel having made its point by bombing the airport and a few other places, came to the table and negotiated the release of the captured soldiers, Hezbollah will be left as the most powerful faction in Lebanon and will be looked upon (by most) as victors. Still, with the invisible hands of several regional powers stirring this froth what happens next is anyone’s guess! The stakes are very high here and the first one to blink will lose.

What we forget here, and is frankly the crux of this matter is that Montenegro has carried out its referendum with the clear acceptance and implicit (at least) approval of the other party. Somaliland’s actions are unilateral and as such they can’t be compared to that of Montenegro. I’m hedging my bets (call me an opportunist if you will). I’ve got two flags under my bed and I’m ready to take them out and wave them in support of the first group that manages to get recognition. Nothing else matters. International recognition is the be-all-and-end-all of this issue. If that should happen then to hell with what Puntland, the TFG or anyone else thinks. If it does not one would, naturally, happily stand side by side with the dissidents of Las Canood and wave our beloved blue flag.

There are still lots of twists and turns to this story, saaxib. Don’t start counting your chickens yet. It’s merely a blip in the flat line of Somali politics and when one blip takes place, usually, a few more follow before we get back to normal (trouble, factions and warlords).

Heh. I agree with the general sentiment but could not help being tickled by the weakness of your argument, saaxib. With no research to back you up, no examples from history and no statistics to show, you’ve decided to state that the Somalis of the past NEVER sold their fellow Somalis in the way that some might do today! I almost punched the screen with indignation there! Where is the nationalism? Where is the brotherhood? Where is the fear of god? Of course, I say I almost punched the screen, but I did not. That I didn’t is due to a word that floated in my mind as I read your musings about slavery! The word was BANTU. Maybe, that was not the angle you were aiming at and the Bantus didn’t cross your mind. I suppose it’s possible that the slavery that appalled you was the one where the buyer was white and not a Muslim Somali! I somehow doubt it though; you’re usually fair and just in your assessments and it’s highly doubtful that you would let yourself get caught out like that. Lets just say that driven with emotion and anger, and wanting to show us how ghastly those warlords were, you let your usual standards slightly slip and allowed your emotions to rewrite history! On a serious note, I actually find myself agreeing with you there. Not because I’m a great supporter of the so-called Islamic courts. To tell the truth, I hardly know what those courts are like and if they are actually genuine. All I know about them is received from Western sources (whom I’m aware would put their own tilt on the way they present matters). So, as you can see, I can’t support them just because they adorned the Islamic cloak. However, anyone that can batter those warlords and have total control over the capital city of Somalia is someone that I would root for, time will tell if they turn out to be good or bad (though, naturally, one hopes they’re good). So, yes, without any fanfare or convoluted historical lessons, whatever you were trying to sell in this thread of yours has been happily bought by this contented customer. PS Lets just hope that they don’t follow the Hamas way of government or make the mistakes that other ‘Islamic’ group is making.

^^^That would have been a great project. He’s a very talented and imaginative individual.

No. No. I’m talking about Somali TV. I wouldn’t at all recommend British Television (well, not most of it anyway). My point was that Television is a reflection of a culture. Just as American TV showcases American culture (good and bad) a Somali TV that does that would be a great help to parents. I put a lot of emphasis on TV because, right now, it does not exist. Most parents already do their best to talk to their children and make sure they’re not going off the rails. TV will merely complement that. You see, the reading of stories and asking of clever questions would work fine up to the age of ten (maybe twelve) but after that the child will start pulling away from their parents and attempting to assert their own personality. That personality (for most teenagers) is anything that is different to what their ‘un-cool’ parents have.

WaterL, The TV of my childhood was not censored simply because the ideas and acts you fear were not ones that the society wanted to glorify. Likewise, a Somali Television station is very unlikely to go down the path of venerating homosexuality or abortion (our value systems do not look kindly on such practices). Television has its bad uses and can be very corruptive. Yet, if used correctly, it can also be every educational. Take soaps for instance; you may turn your nose up at that sort of art and consider it misleading and false, and for some types of soap you would be absolutely correct. But that would depend on the story being told and the moral of that story. Suspend your disbelief for a minute and picture a drama about a teenager being caught in the recent fighting in Somalia. Imagine a soap that documents the life of that youth days before he got involved in the fighting. Watch him play football with his friends, chat a young beautiful filly up, trouble his mother and take most of her money. Delve into his mind and listen to his dreams and aspirations. Hear about how he wants to find a way out of that wretched city to go and make his fortune. Or maybe how he wants to have his own army and become a respected warlord. Follow him as he decides to join a militia and is provided with his own submachine gun! Observe his younger brother copying his footsteps and waving a wooden stick about the place in the childish pretence that it’s a gun! Recoil as you witness the first bullet of this pointless fighting being shot. Spot our male protagonist sallying forth to make a name for himself as a brave fighter! See the fear in his eyes and the misguided resolve in his demeanour. Look at his savage triumph as he brings down his first prey. See doubt and guilt building through his shaken body. Watch him as he slumps down on the floor and reflect on his first kill. Have a birds eye view of a bullet flying through the air and heading towards his sweaty skull! Weep as you see him inhale and exhale his last few breaths. Pan your gaze out over the smoky city all the way to the sunny sky, now zoom down on his house and watch his mother receiving the news of her son’s death. Wipe a tear from your eyes as you watch her let hers fall freely. Wonder if she’s the type of mother that would denounce all wars and ask for her son to be brought back to her or one that will ignorantly rejoice the death of her son in what she thinks is a just war! See the little boy throw away his wooden stick and vowing never to die like his brother. Would he pick up a gun instead or will he avoid all forms of war and fighting? Now back to our topic, as you can see above, I quickly sketched out (an albeit weak but possible) scenario of a drama or even soap (you can stretch the details to a hundred episodes if that’s your wont). Still, the unmistakable moral of this story is that war is wrong and that many innocent lives are ruined by it (even some of those that take part in it). A soap or drama has the power to present events to you in a more succulent and indirect way. It does not tell you anything you didn’t already know about but it engraves in your mind an imaginative process of events showing you how things could have possibly got to the stage they’re in! It’s possible that the next time you think of war, you might not have a blank image in your mind or think of destroyed buildings but, instead, wonder about lives and how each that is caught up in such situations happened to be there. I appreciate that the topic here is not about the fighting in Somalia but thought that giving a topical example would send the message in a much better way than if I told a story about a youth in the streets of London of Minnesota. I’m sure you can draw your own biased picture of one of those, if you wanted. Now, spread your net a little further and try to apply the power of drama to other situations and problems. Conceptualise them, package them, give them a beginning and an end. Make them come alive and imagine if everyone else could see them the way you do. In addition, and to move away from drama a little, Television has the power to also display factual achievements and struggles to a wider audience. Lets look at the idea of graduates helping out and becoming mentors. Or good and clued up parents giving their children the proper guidance or even heroic teachers putting in the extra effort to make sure their pupils do not become wayward and criminal! Where such stories would be heard and seen by dozens (at best), Television has the ability to make them known to millions. In a stable and organised society Television might not be of paramount importance. However, in a broken up, scattered and extremely unorganised society, Television (in my opinion) is a must. Of course it could easily be turned into an instrument for spin and propaganda but that, when all is said and done, will never be as bad or confusing as the ‘waxa la yedhi’ disease we have now. The biggest advantage on the side of Television is our inherent addiction (as Somalis) with news. I’m sure most of the readers are aware of the current Somali channel being broadcast through Hotbird. At the moment, sadly, it only shows a bit of news, occasional films and an endless number of repeated adverts. Yet, most Somali houses that have access to it (I’ve observed) follow it religiously and not even those hideous adverts would put them off from watching. Because seeing is believing and because it’s a link to home. I’ve only touched upon a tiny area of this and could go on championing its cause until I go blue in the face but, I suppose it’s best I take a break now and let you digest what I wrote above first. Northerner, The London style is easily creeping into all the northern cities now. They’re all rude boys to a man.

I was not brought up by my parents. My parents fed me, clothed me, made sure I was polite in their presence and, occasionally, told me right from wrong. However, all my morals, principles and sense of right and wrong were not learned from them. In their eyes, just making sure that I was alive, healthy and attending school was enough of a job. I could have easily become a criminal, thief or drug addict. My parents were not ignorant or lacking in education. On the contrary, they were reasonably educated and both spoke, understood and wrote in several languages. Still, it was not they that brought me up! This might sound absurd but it’s the truth nonetheless. For I was brought up by TV. It was my constant mentor, devoted companion and loving nanny. Many that see me now and suffer my endless preaching would roll their eyes and mutter about how much of an Arab I am! But, it was not Arabs that brought me up (strictly speaking of course). It was the TV. I grew up watching cartoons such as Tom & Jerry, Woody Woodpecker and Popeye. They were childish, pointless and silly. But they still taught me that if you’re big and strong (like Tom) you could easily bully and beat up Jerry. They taught me that if you’re clever, you could easily confound Tom. They taught me that eating vegetable and healthy food makes you stronger. The older I got, the more advanced the message became and more sophisticated the cartoons were. As children, these cartoons were teaching us a universal set of morals and ethics. Yes they were all dubbed in Arabic but the ideas applied to every culture and faith. They taught us the meaning of loyalty, friendship, love and respect. Often times, whilst in my religious classes and the strict stick-wielding mullah would attempt to explain verses from Surat Luqman. I would cast my mind back to one of those cartoons and remember how one of the characters treated his mother or how patient he was in the face of all the trials and tribulations! It was a childish way of understanding life but, surprisingly, it easily helped unravel all the mysteries and complications. The opposite (as in remembering verses from the Quran while watching one of those shows) was also always true. By now, I suppose anyone reading this is wondering what my aim here is and why am I rambling so! Patience, dears, patience. For many years now, It has been my belief that what the Somali community lacks is Television. Don’t think of it as a medium that transmits songs and trivial dramas (though that in itself is not something to scoff at). Think of it as your local coffee shop or mosque (or wherever people of a village would congregate to hear the latest news). View it as the central point in any given town or village. A place where the whole community would go when faced with a quandary. In a small town or village, when a mother/father has a rowdy child that can’t be controlled, they would speak to relatives, friends, elders in the local coffee shop or the Imam in the mosque. They’ll receive advice about putting the child to work, sending him to evening school or introducing him to new things that would fully occupy his spare time and keep him away from trouble! Yet, not all villages are the same and not every solution would work on every child. We as a people don’t live in small villages or towns anymore. The actual landmass of Somalia might be in Africa but, nowadays, Somalia almost exists in every part of the world. You might agree with this but counter back with the argument that mosques, coffee shops and elders can also be found in every part of the world. I would happily concede the point but question the uniformity of their ideas and interpretations of situations. Seldom have I heard of troublesome Somali children in Scandinavia, India or the Arab world. Yet, I’m quite sure that all three destinations are full to the rafters with Somalis! Have they devised new ways of dealing with their children? Is it the societies they live in? Is the schooling better? Why are they not making similar waves to the ones the Western Somalis are making? I believe that such things should be investigated, sought out and reported back to all of us in a truthful, acceptable and honest manner (and without the untrustworthy Somali style of Waxa la Yedhi). Whenever we speak about wayward children and reasons for their unruliness, people speak of bad parenting, lack of role models and weakness of the community! Humbug says I. Parenting is not a skill that comes to anyone naturally. No mother or father is born with the ability to bring up children. It’s a skill that one learns with time and experience. But what helps accelerate the learning process is the adoption, exposure to and the sharing of the experiences of other parents. When a community only exists as an idea with no physical central point of reference, it’s impossible for such an exposure to take place. In other words, when parents do not have the opportunity to mix with as many other parents as possible and specifically discuss such problems, their chances of learning new skills diminish. It’s very easy to blame bad parenting for those that have not had to cope with these problems. Walk a mile in their shoes I say, walk a mile in their shoes. The second point here was the one about role models! Again, that too, I fear, is a flawed argument. Like an actor needs a stage, a surgeon an operation theatre and a teacher needs a classroom, a role model too needs a medium! In addition, we need to define what is a role model to Somali youth! Surely it’s not going to be some great poet! It certainly is not a singer or actor. Could it be a businessman? A graduate? A professor? What if it were a religious man? How about a gangster? If one wanted to meet and find out about any of those above, one would need to go and visit them in their different environments. But, what if one brought all these people together in one place! Let’s say a Television studio? Admittedly, Television would be more beneficial and would give more exposure to writers, singers, dramatists and poets. But then again, in most societies, these are the exact people that have their fingers on the pulse of their communities and know how to present to us the ugly truth in a benign way. Do think about this please. You never know, one of you might have the resources and vision to bring this idea to light. At least then, when we’re faced with problems such as the murder above, those seeking to speak to Somalis will not need to pick out someone at random and would instead speak to the voice of the community.

Originally posted by W11 aka Winger: Whats happened to everyone?? B.boyz are on top but for how long?? Not for long I fear. My best players are all injured and I have no hope of winning my next two games (takes a while to recover from injuries).

If you have more than 14 teams it's best to divide the league into two. A top leage and second league with promotion and relegation, saaxib.

Hey. My current low position is not down to a lack of managerial ability. I have a long-term plan and have been building for the future. I shall unleash my all conquering plan on you in the coming season and defeat all . You have been warned.

The issue of Muslim refugees is not a new one. It was there long before the Somalis decided to have a tiff and burn the country down. It started with the Palestinians and the declaration of the state of Israel. At the time (and even now) the Israelis argued and fought for a state of their own. They pleaded with the world and told all those that would listen that they’re a prosecuted people and that they need a land of their own. They used and, at times, magnified the holocaust issue to highlight their sorry position and sad state. When the Arabs (not strictly the Muslims) fought them in 48, 67 and the last war, they (Israelis) won. However, the winning of those wars was a mere hollow victory. The real victory was in the media and the public consciousness of the world. The Israelis pointed to the fanatical anger of the Arabs and their ready ability to wage war to ask why are they not giving the Palestinians refuge in their own lands, and therefore end this problem once and for all. Jordan was the only country to allow thousands of Palestinians to reside in its own lands. However, it later, along with all Arab countries regretted that decision. This is not because of a dislike or hatred for their fellow Arabs but for the clear and obvious reason that if they allowed Palestinians refuge in other lands the whole issue of Palestine and the Israeli occupation will be rendered null and void. Therefore, and ever since, the idea of accepting refugees in Arab lands has been a great big NO NO! Having said that, many Arab countries did briefly ease the restrictions during the first Gulf War and allowed thousands of Kuwaitis in their lands. This however, I suspect, was not a sudden change of policy or to show particular love for the Kuwaitis. It was simple political bum-kissing that they knew was temporary and also knew was not going to cripple their various economies (how many Kuwaitis are there in the world?). I doubt if they’ll extend the same generous help to the Iraqis now (though some countries did during the rule of Saddam). I can’t see any Arab country even contemplating opening its doors to the 20 million Iraqis that would jump at such an opportunity. It’s a funny old game this politics lark and the Arabs are the worst players there are.

Nobody can rub a lion’s nose in the mud like the lion cubs could. The news of newborns is always great but, in your case, it’s even greater. I’m not much of a fortune-teller or reader of the unknown (nor do I even entertain such thoughts) but, from experience, I can almost conclude that this great news will do wonders for your patience and the way you view life in general. It’s not my habit to take part in congratulations or condolences threads but, for you, in spite of your amazing ability to always frustrate me, I’ll make an exception and extend you my heartiest congratulations. May your child put a permanent smile in your face whilst young and fill you with pride in your old age. Welcome to the club.

With respect to the initiator of that thread, I didn’t see much of an invitation to ‘discuss’ the matter there. I think he was letting of steam (we all do that from time to time). Therefore, I thought it best to revive this thread and leave the other to take it’s own course. Somewhere in this thread, I wrote that sooner or later people would tackle this issue head on. Like a fly that hovers round your face and buzzes in your ear, you try to brush it aside with your hand but it keeps on coming back, you try to quicken the movement of your hand, but it keeps coming back. Sooner or later, the fly (measly, irritating, meaningless and pointless as it is) gets your attention and you finally get up and try to deal with it. I see signs of the penny finally dropping. People, angry as they are, are finally trying to crush that fly instead of the nonchalant dismissals of the past. Then again, it was not just one fly; Manji, Rushdie and co are a bloody swarm! Maybe that’s what’s getting the sleepy ‘ceeb, ceeb, ceeb’ brigade to sit up and take notice.

I noticed a thread titled ‘open letter’ and thought it’s time this one was revived. The Keepers of the Faith are at it again I see.

^^^ Heh. Both points are meaningless, saaxib. Think about it a bit longer, I say. To say that mere humans can’t imitate the prophets is to state the obvious. It’s also a misleading digression. Neither Goth nor any other person can and would expect ordinary Muslims to fully emulate the prophets. That’s a red herring, saaxib. However, what we all strive to and try to work towards is replicating a tiny grain of the prophet’s ways in our daily life. If one follows the author’s argument one’s conclusion would be that we should not bother at all. We’re only mere humans and, as such, we might as well know our weakness and continue on sinning instead of trying to punch above our weight by trying to emulate the prophets. With all due respect to you and the author, that’s utter nonsense. On the freedom of the expression point, I will repeat one more time that when the limits are NOT in place one is free to do what one wants. In the case of the cartoons, which the author (and you) unwittingly seem to overlook, such limits did not (and do not) exist. If and when they’re put in place they’ll make his argument valid. As things stand, he’s being idealistic and is refusing to deal with truth. This, of course, does not conflict with my previous argument that such laws should not exist anyway. That’s a different argument and is one that goes beyond what we’re talking about here. Alas, I doubt if the author has the ability or comprehension to reach such simple heights of reasoning. His attack is on the person of Mr Goth and not the arguments put forth. He rebukes Goth for criticising Muslims and takes his words and ideas out of context to prove some vindictive point. Come and witness the mirthful and nonsensical logic of the man in these following quotes: He states: “… the Danish people have the right to behave the way they want to behave on their own turf.†If we apply the logic of his statement to Moslems behaving as they wish in their own countries would it not justify the kind of behaviour he is condemning in Moslems? Here, the author asks an obtuse and very child-like question. His words imply that Muslims should not speak out against wrongs done by other Muslims, because, they’re on their own turf. Steady now, I’m sure that this was not his intention, but when one clutches at straws and tries to score non-existent points, one (almost inevitably) ends up sounding obtuse. Though this was not his intention, this would be the natural conclusion of that point if we had to press him further. Or else, it could only be explained as a throwaway comment uttered in a moment of high emotions. Neither explanations flatter the author much. When all is said and done, Goth’s argument still stands unscathed! Furthermore, he scoffs of Moslems finding satisfaction in new conversions to Islam as he says: “It is not uncommon to read reports in newspapers from Arab and Islamic world on Islam spreading in the West like a fire on a windy day. They talk with glee about European women converting to Islam in their hoards. In fact most of such reports come from Muslims living in the West. With such vitriol rhetoric and with the stereotype of the few Europeans converted to Islam turning their back on the norms and values of their home countries, changing their attire and adopting an alien look and attitude, it is just natural for the Western people to feel their values and their free speech were under threat.†(Emphasis mine). These words surely cannot be the words of a Muslim as they are, plainly and simply, an attack, not only on Moslems who pride themselves on the swelling of their ranks but also a blatant and unwarranted denunciation of those westerners who convert to Islam. Here again, the author displays a laughable lack of comprehension and shows a deficiency in his attention span! As is evident in his piece, this leads him to take Mr Goth’s words out of context and deal with ‘provocative’ sentences in isolation. When reading such shabby pieces I usually tend to conclude that the author lacks comprehension, I realise that this (by now) irritates anyone reading my words. But, accusing one of a lack of comprehension is a far better slur than accusing them of being dishonest. Here, the author is being blatantly dishonest. However, from experience alone, I highly doubt that he even realises it! Mr Goth, as the quote below demonstrates, though not covering himself in glory in that paragraph, does not seem to espouse, denounce or intend to insult Muslims (and this I gleaned from reading the same piece that the author skimmed through)! Mr Ismail, if he’s reading this, needs to go over that paragraph once more and read it very slowly. He will note that Mr Goth starts by inviting us to ‘a little dose of SELF-criticism’. Mr Goth then goes on to explain how Muslims insult and make mockery of other people. He then speaks about the very real idea and dream that all Muslims have about turning the West into an Islamic land. Remember, we’re still at the self-criticism stage here. The reader is given a BIG hint as to why such sentences are written. Goth adds some opinions of his in the middle of the paragraph that, I personally, do not agree with. However, that’s a mere detour. His central theme remains the same. He’s still at the self-criticism stage and the very clear message is contained in his last sentence. Now, if Mr Ismail (or anyone for that matter) disagrees with Goth’s conclusions there, this is what they should tackle and not the man himself. In other words, Goth, after a little self-criticism (on all our behalves) concluded that it’s the actions and words of some Muslims, which made the West fear for it’s values and ways of life and, as a result, some Westerners drew those cartoons! His message seems to be that we should put our own house in order before we knock others. This is Mr Goth’s opinion and opinions are not always TRUE. Mr Ismail (and others) should have challenged that opinion (if they disagreed with it). Here is the quote in its entirety: A little dose of self-criticism will show us that Muslims every day insult and make mockery of other people. Our Imams curse the Christians and pray God to destroy their houses, to shatter their unity, to wipe them out of the face of the earth; and all the faithful respond with a hearty Amen. I will not even mention the Jews whose ridicule is a daily bread for our clerics although I find it beyond my understanding why Muslims always drag Jews and the holocaust into the agenda whenever they have a debate with the Christian world. These are the beliefs with which every Muslim child grows up, my brothers and sisters, and no one in our self-righteous world has ever questioned how much disservice we are doing to our future by preaching such hate to the young minds. My dear brothers, even today, at the dawn of the 21st century, some of us dream of the day when Islam will again conquer Europe and a turbaned Muslim will occupy the American White House. I am not saying this, these are the words of Ayman Al Zawaheri, Al Qaeda's second man, and Abu Hamza Al Misri. The first uttered these words in one of his broadcasts in Al Jazeera and the latter preached them in his Finsbury Park mosque in London. It would have been understandable if this kind of fantasy thinking was confined to these unbalanced and misguided men, but it is very worrying and indeed scary when one discovers some of the learned men of Islam taking pride in such utterances and defending them in Arab televisions; not even feeling any shame to add the title of Sheikh to the name of these men. It is not also uncommon to read reports in newspapers from the Arab and Islamic world on Islam spreading in the West like a fire on a windy day. They talk with glee about European women converting to Islam in their hordes. In fact most of such reports come from Muslims living in the West. With such vitriol rhetoric and with the stereotype of the few Europeans converted to Islam turning their back on the norms and values of their home countries, changing their attire and adopting an alien look and attitude, it is just natural for the Western people to feel their values and their free speech were under threat.

^^^ Four wrods: I agree with you.

A good read and pleasing conclusion. However, it’s not the end of the road for you, brother. You’ve only been a Muslim for four years. If you try to look back and think of the amount of knowledge and information you have gained in those four years, I’m sure you’ll be amazed and wonder where has all of that been stored. Still, don’t sit on your laurels and think this is the end of the matter. There is a whole lot of knowledge to be gained, a whole lot of lessons to be picked up and many many experiences to go through that will strengthen your faith and keep you on the right path. You have the great advantage of not being born Muslim. There is no risk for you of this faith becoming a habit or tradition. You believe it because it makes sense to you. Now, as long as you carry on in the same vain and try to always consult your mind (and not your emotions), you’re very unlikely to go wrong, brother. You never know, in time, many of us genealogical Muslims might refer to you and come to be educated at your hands or take advice from your superior understanding and lucid grasp. All the best.

Since I went to the trouble of writing this poem in a pervious thread about books and reading, I think it’s worth another airing. Thought I’ll answer in verse. [big Grin] In my time of reading, I learned about Japan Of Geisha's and of Samurais Great people to a man Now China too I read about the land of Chairman Mao Its history was great before it’s more amazing now The Brits invaded half the world for gold and other things I read about it in a book I know how Big Ben rings I’m not American as you know but know their civil war Gone With The Wind was a great book and helped open that door I read of masters and of slaves of southerners and yanks yet I have never ever set one foot in that land! The French Monarchy, I’m sure you heard was a great institution But Louis and family were scared When faced with the revolution They were executed by the mob or should we call them public? And there and then it was born the great French Republic The Spartan war was not real it was as fake as Achilles’ heel Gods came and fought alongside men and poor old Priam lost his son Odysseys he was a man of thought he was brainy and he was clever he made the horse that changed the course of this long and hard fought war between men, gods and even rivers The easterners too wrote great books on all types of subjects they even translated porn and names of sexy objects The days they loved and the afternoons but they most enjoyed the nights they wrote of 1001 of those and all their great delights Aladdin was to be found there Ali Baba and Sinbad and the adventures of the three in great old Baghdad You really don’t have to read a book written by man but I fail to see how you’ll explain not reading your Koran in there too you will find stories of many men some of them prophets, some good and great and many men of sin Each story there has a lesson, a sort of a moral tale of life and people and history and even heaven and hell Of four four two I hear you speak Of football and of races of sport and winning all the cups and trainers with no laces In reading that you might pick a hint (some might say that’s just vague) on who is good and who is bad and who might win the league It might be silly and might sound daft still, it’s information and that’s what reading’s all about enlightened communication.... PS Don’t pay too much attention to the technical bits of that (poetry was never my thing). Heh. Tolstoy recommends a great book above and since what you ask for are books that have historical themes, let me recommend the following books and authors. Try anything by a lady called Colleen McCullough: Thorn Bird, Morgan’s Run or any of the Masters of Rome serious (this latter is great reading). You mentioned Louis de Bernières, so I assume that you’ve already read Captain Corelli's Mandolin. But all his other novels (The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts, The Troublesome Offspring of Cardinal Guzman, etc) are as funny and captivating. Gone with the Wind is yet another MUST READ book. Even Dickens does ‘historical’ novels in Barnaby Ridge. There are many many more that I could recommend but I don’t want to bore you with them. I suggest you check out older book topics on this site.

Ahura, I’ve gone through this thread and read every word written by every participant in it. I was getting excited and pleased as I saw you gently rebuffing all these suitors and hangers on. But, as I read further and followed the discussion more, I could not help noticing a softening from your side to a Nomad that my tongue refused to utter the name of! I’m deeply troubled, highly perplexed and utterly bewildered! A most loathed and unwanted guest has taken residence in my bosom and is telling me all sorts of horrific tales. I tried to block her constant whispers and relentless hints from my mind but failed. I tried to banish her, but my sense of Somali hospitality prevented me from throwing a guest out. Yes, even one reviled by the entire world. Now jealousy has taken permanent residence in my heart and has become my bosom buddy! She refuses to share me with anyone else and is forever pointing out all your shortfalls so that I grow to hate you and dislike you. I’ve tried to argue with her, reason with her or completely reject her. But she keeps on at me and has managed to plant the seeds of doubt in my mind. She asks: Why has she been so soft on this Nomad (that shall not be named)? I reply: Because she’s a nice person She asks: Isn’t she worried her flirting with him might upset you? I reply: She’s not flirting with him. She asks: Why is he following her around in such a way if she’s not flirting with him? I reply: Because she’s a great lady. She asks: Can you cope with and accept the fact that men will follow her around? I reply: I doubt it She asks: What are you going to do then? I reply: I’ll speak to her and tell her how I feel She asks: What if she tells you that this doubt is your problem and that you should learn to live with it? I reply: I’ll try to live with it. She asks: Can you? I reply: I doubt it! She triumphantly asks: What then? I reply: I don’t know! She asks: How can you love someone you’re not sure of? I reply: but I’m sure of her! She asks: But you can’t live with the fact that others admire her? I reply: Yes. No. I’m not sure. She asks: Is she worth all this pain and doubt? I reply: Indeed. She asks: So, you will carry on loving her? I reply: Without a doubt. She asks: And what will you do when one of these admirers starts pestering her and she does not spurn him strongly enough? I reply: I shall beat him to within an inch of his life! She asks: And what if your beloved is upset by your aggression? I reply: That’s the way I am and she can take it or leave it! She asks: And what if that also (flirting and being soft with admirers) is the way she is? I reply: Erm, err, well then, we’re not meant for each other. She says: Let me share a small secret with you, that IS the way she is. Observe how she flirts with that Nomad (that shall not be named). Hear how she laughs at his jokes. Look at her body language. Notice how she swishes her hair about as she sweetly reject him! I reply: To hell with her. :mad:

Because the lot of us are spoilt children that want to cry and call press conferences when we’re wronged and refer to fairy tales and conspiracy theories when some of us are the ones doing the wrong. We keep going on about this concept of ‘ummah’ yet when some people that are part of this ‘ummah’ disagree with us, we quickly brand them as traitors, apologists, oriantalists and what not! Well, some people in this Islamic ‘ummah’ (regardless of what you call them) still have some principles and know RIGHT from WRONG. When a hasty know-nothing Muslim decides to blow up places and kill innocent people, I for one feel obliged to apologise and distance myself from him and his actions. When some ignorant Muslims decide to burn, kill and destroy property in the mistaken belief that they’re defending Islam, I feel it’s my duty to apologise and distance myself from them. When pointless numbskulls make senseless threats and pick and choose all the harsh verses in the Quran (out of context may I add), I, as a Muslim, feel it’s my duty to apologise and distance myself from them. The concept of one ‘ummah’ dictates that I do that. Your concept of Ummah was what the Qureesh tribes were practising before Islam. The one where you support your brother regardless of being right or wrong! It’s utterly clannish and WRONG. This duplicity and contradictions never ceases to amaze me. At times, I wonder if people view Islam as some sort of nationality or private club. Are we not ordered to call people to Islam? Is it not supposed to be the correct faith for EVERYONE? How then are non-Muslims expected to join the true faith when the followers of that true faith distance themselves from the world and act in such an impudent way? Those that apologise in the Western media today are the Salman Rushdies, Irshad Manjis and Ayan Hirsis of the Islamic world (indeed, most Muslims don’t even regard them as Muslim). On the other hand, those that make the most noises when Muslims are wronged hardly ever make any apologies. They, like many here, feel that the entire Muslim ummah should not have to answer for the actions of the few! Yet, they’ll be happy to complain about wrongdoings in Iraq or Afghanistan! It’s a childish attitude to have. Calypso above compares it with Denmark or America and how both countries should not apologise for the actions of the few. I however, beg to strongly disagree there. Denmark, America or China are mere countries that shall die away with time (like all the great civilisations before them). A single Dane need not apologise for the actions of his fellow citizen because citizenship is the only thing they share in common. We on the other hand share a FAITH. The actions of one Muslim impinge and have an effect on the image of the whole faith! If I want to complain about the plight of the Muslims in India, I also have to be a man of principle and reject the actions of some of the Muslims in Iraq (or London, Madrid and New York). Your books have to balance my friend. For every debit entry you have to have a credit one. Or else, Islam (or at least the image of it) becomes no different to all the other diluted faiths and political ideologies that we usually reject and point out the loopholes in. Forget about Islam and defending it for now (don’t worry, it will not be wiped out while you do so). Focus on yourself and how you view things in this world. Work on your principles, on your senses of RIGHT and WRONG. Question your beliefs, understanding and views. Rid yourself of the caution and angry stubbornness. If your mission is to learn and know then you shall learn and know. However, if your intention is to get angry and bang on about how your superficial (version) of Islam is the correct one, then may god help you.

Originally posted by Blessed: Castro n Ngonge, Old t-shirts, huh? With holes waliba, how indearing :eek: :mad: *wonders in her farax thinks of her as such* NEVER! You're a spanking new Liverpool top (without the Carslberg bit). Give him time, give him time. He'll soon find his feet and label you as one thing or another. When he does, KNOW that you've arrived. My Liverpool top (the one with the holes in it) has the word CANDY written across it.

^^^ I have more sense than to buy you chocolates, dear. It would go straight to your hips and then, out of guilt; you’ll starve yourself for the next three months and live on ‘barees cad’. I could never forgive myself if that were to happen. As for being late, one must make an entrance, one must make an entrance, dear. As for stamping on my feet, smacking me and kicking me! Don’t start acting as if this is the first time you’ve done this. I’ve grown used to your sweet gesticulations as you demurely demand a hug, shorty. Up you come

You do realise that this article is from THE ONION.com and is not Castro’s personal opinion about his current/to be wife, don’t you people? A wife is like a favourite old t-shirt. The more you wear it and the more the years pass, the more holes it develops and the more you start thinking of ‘buying’ a new t-shirt. But you could never bring yourself to do it, because, you love that old t-shirt of yours and no new t-shirt could ever fit in as snugly or comfortably. On a side (but trivial) note, I’ve never met a man who allowed his wife to get rid of his favourite t-shirt (the one you do the painting, gardening and other stuff in).

I know I’m late, but, In my opinion, there has never been a truer saying than ‘better late than never’. I come here trembling with anxiety and shaking with worry! Could it be that my lady has withdrawn her invitation? I don’t think I’m alone here. Do you think when the Prince went about town looking for his Cinderella and carrying a shoe, he wasn’t embarrassed and wary of her response? Do you think Romeo wasn’t worried that his beloved might toss the day’s garbage on him as he arrived late? Do you think Cyrano de Bergerac wasn’t worried that his lovely Roxanne would choose Christain over him? Ah! But my Ahura and me are not like any of these. Rather, we’re like Menelaus and Helen of Troy. When she was kidnapped, he gathered an army and fought brave Hector until he got her back. Nay, nay, nay. Helen is nothing on my Ahura! Helen gave her heart freely to Paris and forgot about her beloved. My Ahura, like faithful old Penelope, waited for her Odysseus to return from his arduous journey and rejected all the greedy suitors! She’s like Popeye’s Olive. Shrek’s Fiona. Celmi’s Hothan. If I were late, it’s only because I’m a worthless Somali and have inherited this wretched carelessness with time keeping from my miserable ancestors. They, at least, are excused. They had no beautiful damsel awaiting them to be her chosen one on the day of love. For if they had a whiff of such an invitation, I could just imagine them galloping barefoot through space and time to accept this enchanting offer. But even if they did, and others did, and they all crowded at her feet. My Ahura, with a wave of her lovely hand, will split the salivating throng apart and beckon me forward with a smile. And I, with my plastic rose, will wade through my dribble and crawl over to her. When I get there, I’ll momentarily, decline the offer of her hand and whip out my carefully composed poem. I heard you call my name and dearly tried to come But when at last I came, too late! You were feeling numb! The special day has gone; your name throughout I hummed The jealous people thought that I would never appear They said ‘he’s there and there, but why isn’t he here’ To think that I was near yet never knew my dear! To think that I would shy or hide away or fear To think that I heard you but choose to steer clear! I’d like to say I’m humbled or even mortified I’d even pretend to cringe, recoil or take flight But none of these are worthy of the man that I'm The man that Ahura chose to be her Valentine A rose m’lady