They’re hiding their heads under the sand again and focusing on a different problem altogether! This letter was written as a response to the latest (alleged) terrorist arrests in the UK. As usual, the Muslim Council of Briton and others are no fans of self-examination and reflection. Instead, they would rather lay the blame somewhere else! Still, I don’t mind the tone of their letter to Tony Blair or the content. What I mind is that they consider a discourse with the British government of the greatest importance and pass copies of this letter to all media outlets yet don’t see or seem to remember their responsibility to their local ‘community’ on whose behalf they speak! There is not one single line where they urge and clearly advice the Muslim ‘community’ to distance itself from troublemakers (remember, with such a letter comes great exposure and any advice made in it would have reached most UK Muslims). Alas, these ‘community’ leaders are not interested in dealing with their own but instead would prefer to argue (in a most futile way) with the British government about its foreign policy and what not. While I’m at it, let me talk about the thing that prompted them into writing that letter. Of course, the issues of Iraq and Lebanon might have given them the idea for the letter but only when the arrests were made did they finally get together and write it! Isn’t it strange then that they would not talk about these arrests and the real reason for them?

British Muslim groups have written to the prime minister calling for "urgent" changes to UK foreign policy. In an open letter they say British policy is putting civilians at increased risk in the UK and abroad. This is the text. Prime Minister, As British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens. It is our view that current British government policy risks putting civilians at increased risk both in the UK and abroad. To combat terror the government has focused extensively on domestic legislation. While some of this will have an impact, the government must not ignore the role of its foreign policy. The debacle of Iraq and now the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East not only increases the risk to ordinary people in that region, it is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all. Attacking civilians is never justified. This message is a global one. We urge the Prime Minister to redouble his efforts to tackle terror and extremism and change our foreign policy to show the world that we value the lives of civilians wherever they live and whatever their religion. Such a move would make us all safer. Source Looks like I’m back to my old stomping ground. What an utterly duplicitous letter that was.

Heh! There is so much enmity here that not even the mutual love of a tall guy would heal. ** Runs away whilst ducking the sharp looks coming his way **

^^^ They don't 'cut off' hands in Sharjah, saaxib (or at least they never used to). It’s a very nice city and one of the safest in the world. Still, even the safest place in the world can’t stop mental people from snatching a child or a teenager from causing a deadly car pileup.

How romantic. Two honeymoons and a lifetime of nagging. Still, ‘the tall guy’(as Duke calls him) seems to have broad enough shoulders to cope with it all. When all is said and done, and considering the place, culture and environment where these events took place, this really is a non-story. The good news for the single boys here is that there are plenty of options for you back home, girls that are ready for marriage and girls that are on standby. You’re all spoilt for choice, why waste time and let the tall guy and others clear the deck? Get a move on boys, says I. PS Didi, easy with the accusations, saaxib. It’s not my place to speak for Rahima, but I think the same thought that crossed all our minds is what disgusted her. Not the fact that a man married two women but that he did so on the same day. Without reducing the topic down to vulgar levels, I’m still uneasy with that fact. It’s a strange situation to be a newly married woman and content yourself with the fact that your husband is away to spend time with his (also) other new wife! Some people would rightfully be disgusted at the thought. PPS Zafir has an unhealthy imagination (almost JB like in it's dreadfulness).

Saudi scholar rallies support for Hezbollah By Mariam Al Hakeem, Correspondent Riyadh: A prominent Saudi scholar yesterday called for the support of the resistance in Lebanon and Palestine regardless of differences over "schools of thoughts."In a statement sent to Gulf News, Shaikh Abdul Rahman Al Omar said the mujahideens (holy warriors) in Lebanon deserve the support of Arab and Islamic countries regardless of "schools of their thoughts" because they are fighting the enemies of Islam and assassins of the prophets."Muslims should be supported in general, against their enemies no matter the schools of their thoughts are. Because the confrontation of the enemies - the Israelis - is more important than any sectarian or factional differences," Al Omar said.He also called on Muslims to refrain from instigating any sectarian tendencies especially during these delicate and crucial circumstances being experienced by Muslims in Lebanon and Palestine.Al Omar appealed to countries with diplomatic or commercial relations with Israel to sever their ties and expel Tel Aviv's diplomats. He also urged Arab and Islamic countries to open their borders to "let the mujahideens pass and fight the Zionists." "It is high time for the Islamic and Arab countries to allow the youth to fight the Jews in the battle of honour and dignity in Lebanon and Palestine," Al Omar said. Al Omar's statement flatly rejected an earlier call by another scholar urging Muslims to refrain from helping the Hezbollah because of the "Shiite school of thought.""This party should not be supported nor fight under its banner and supplicate for its victory," Al Gebrain said . Gulf News See why I'm puzzled? :confused:

With this war in Lebanon and our collective (expected) indignation at events unfolding before our eyes, an unanswerable question kept on flashing in my mind, Hezbollah? Watching various Arabic news programs during this conflict, I’ve come across several of those shows where the viewers are invited to call and air their opinions and views on this conflict. The majority of the callers are (not surprisingly) on the side of Hezbollah. In fact, many of them phone to specifically praise Sayid Hassan Nasserallah (the Hezbollah leader). Still, in the midst of these phone calls, there were also some that phoned to dissuade their Sunni brothers from supporting Hezbollah (because they’re Shia of course). These are not very loud calls and are almost always drowned by the emotional wave of anger that is engulfing everyone else. Nonetheless, it is something that displays the cracks in the Muslim world (even when under the severest of attacks from elsewhere). The western media, for its part, is doing its utmost to highlight this division in Lebanon, Iraq (see claims of civil wars, etc) and even Saudi Arabia! Many Western observers attribute the silence of the Saudis, Egyptians and other gulf countries to this chasm between Sunni and Shia Muslims. However, judging by the Arab media’s coverage, it seems that the Arab street(as it were) is overwhelmingly on the side of Hezbollah! Are they being duplicitous (are we?) or have those that regard the Shia as infidels always been an irrelevant minority? Then again, maybe this is a kind of truce from ‘domestic’ squabbles until the greater enemy is dealt with! Where do you stand on this issue and how do you reconcile your beliefs/principles with what is going on in Lebanon?

^^^ I agree with part of what you say there (the part about salafism being a new concept that started in Sudia Arabia). However, in one of your earlier arguments, you alluded to the fact that we assign names to schools of thought by the names of their originators (Bin Hanbal, Abu Hanifa, etc). Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that Salafis reject such labels too!

What an ironic title this thread has!

^^^^ I think you missed his point there, saaxib (or possibly it was done on purpose). In short, when he talks about toddlers, he’s not talking about age. He’s attempting to belittle your political knowledge. As you can see, he went on to list and explain why being a democracy does not stop a state (or entity in our case) from arresting those it accuses of treason. The extent of that state’s democratic pretensions are found by the process that follows the arrest. Will due process be applied? Will the accused be given a chance to challenge his arrest (and the charge of treason) in court? Somaliland claims to have donned the cloak of democracy, is that evident in it’s actions and the way it conducts itself or is it merely a case of emperor’s new clothes? I’m undecided either way but only thought I’d bring you together to a point where there is a basic understanding of what’s being said here. Shoddy comprehension is the slayer of any debate.

Makes sense, saaxib. Still, your following words might have not. However, this didn't mean I have written the TFG out of the solution yet. I still think they have a role to play though deminished. That is if the TFG's Shariif can find a way to rescue it by replacing Abdullahi Yussuf and Gheedi with more reasonable individuals . That way, the TFG would become instrumental in using it's acquired international contacts while working with other groups in Somalia, chiefly the UIC in Mogadishu. That way the TFG could become part of something meaningful. Why spare Shariif?

Originally posted by Djib-Somali: PS: Ngonge, I've the feeling that you consider Islam here as a politic tool rather than a supreme philosophie, englobing every sphere of our existence. Do you really believe that it's purely destined to manipulate "naive populace" and certainely not to rule "enlightened intellectual" like you as well? Heh. I'm an 'enlightened intellectual'! Still, when you say ‘Islam’, are you talking about the faith or the specific situation in Somalia? I shall not expound on Islam the faith; it will suffice (I presume) to say that I am a follower of said faith. Now the quagmire of Somali politics is a different issue altogether. After sixteen years of ups and downs I’m sure you’ll forgive my cynicism and cynical stance when it comes to the Islamic Courts. With them, I take the exact same position as I take my home region of Somaliland: Show me satisfactory results and I’ll happily wave the flag. Though in the case of the Mullahs the results will really have to be satisfactory and their conduct whiter than white. Nonetheless, and even though mind compels me to view them with suspicion, my heart roots for them.

Him and his president missed a trick or two, saaxib. That’s what you get when you don’t follow the trends I suppose. Still, all is not lost. President Yusuf and the Prime Minster can still salvage something out of this mess by working on their image and presentation. They need some spin-doctors first. To start with, they both have to avoid the limelight for a month or two. They need to issue statements through their spokespersons or even the spokesman of the parliament (there is a reason for this). These speeches should be littered with kind soothing words and full of affected religious speak. After a time, they need to return and give their first press conference outside a mosque after Friday prayers. The speech has to be a long one and should include as many affected Islamic phrases as possible. It should not include any political statements or outline any future plan of action (politically, economically or regionally). It should be a lecture of sorts and should ‘appear’ to be spontaneous and off-the-cuff. They should talk about their heart-felt pain for their Somali brethren and their bleeding nation. They should propose to have peace talks with their wayward opponents and emphasise that the time of the gun is over. They should also gather as many bearded people as possible and show (in the most subtle way) that they and their supporters too can don this latest and must have attire. They should use their international connections to coerce Saudi Arabia and Egypt (with the Azhar mullahs) to endorse this new transformation. In no time at all, the government will be on the ascendancy and can claim (as is expected) that the Mullah’s in the capital are refusing to fall into line behind the pious Geedi and the devout Yusuf. The fickle populace, who were chasing scraps and looking for reasons to reject the Islamic Courts will lap it all up and strongly condemn these self-styled Mullahs of the capital. Voila! The most honourable Geedi and spiritual Yusuf will again have the upper hand.

Though it’s a trivial topic, I can’t help pointing out that Mr Gibson had brought it upon himself. There is no doubt that his comments were anti-Semitic. For what’s a Jewish police officer in America has to do with Israeli foreign policy? It’s as bas as being stopped by a Muslim police officer and ranting about Muslims all being terrorists. The other reason he brought it upon himself is that he’s a celebrity, and not an every day dull-flash-your-bits kind of celebrity but the bible-bashing kind. Live by the sword; get arrested by the sword, Mr G.

You’re forever surfing the huge wave of Somali politics, Duke. Don’t you ever get tired of it? It was only at the end of 2004 that you and many on here were rejoicing at the establishment of the TFA and then you rejoiced even more when president Yusuf was chosen to the lead the Somali Transitional Government. Was it not a year ago when things looked bleak and the Speaker (Shariff Hassan) was proving a pest? Was it not less than a year ago when many prominent Minsters in that government were being petulant and causing Mr Yusuf and his Prime Minster all sorts of grief? Were not these Islamic courts accused of being remnants of the defeated Al-Ittihad masquerading as a new and peaceful grouping? Was it not a few years before that when Mr Yusuf defeated them in Puntland? Was it not three years ago when things looked dark and bleak for Puntland and Somaliland? Did we not expect war to erupt between those two entities? Was it not a few years before that when president Abdulqasim’s TNG was the great hope for us all and many thought Somalia was saved? Did we not, months after that accuse him and his sidekicks of corruption and weakness? Did he not fail? Was it not years before that when the former president of the Republic of Somalia was defeated by the various ‘resistance’ groups? Did we not all (or at least most of us) rejoice at his overthrow and look forward to a better future? With such a history, with that many setbacks and celebrations, don’t you think it’s time we all sat back and watched the clowns wreck more havoc. It’s not as if these Islamic Courts are any better than all the rest (they’re Somali after all). If I were you, I’d hold my celebrations and condemnations just yet. There are many twists and turns on the way. If you get too involved, you’ll forever be changing sides, just like you did with adeero Abdullahi, and just like many here were cheering for those wretched warlords a while back and are now cheering for those that defeated the warlords. Somali politics is like a cat that was dropped in water and jumped straight out. If you try to predict where it will put its foot next you’ll only develop a headache, or worse still, an epileptic seizure.

wax aan dheer nahay ninkaas ma jirto, it could be any one of us. You really think? I don't think I want to live with the fear of being mutilated by the men around me. [/QB] I think the men around will only pull your hair, very hard. I would congratulate them on such an act.

^^ Help him out, brother. Anyway, you must be a TFG or Somaliland/Puntland fan. You can't be a fan of the mullah's or you would have helped him out here. They're very helpful those mullahs.

Have a go at any random faction if you want replies, saaxib. You've got to strike a match if you want light a fire, adeer.

Drop out of education to become a housewife? Once upon a time this place used to be heaving with feminists. Wonder what happened to them all! You started something; you may as well finish it (unless life and circumstances prevent you from doing so). As for being a housewife that gave up on education and bagging yourself a ‘rich’ man, one would assume that you’d need to be drop-dead-gorgeous in order to ensnare such a man. I’d also hazard a guess that such women need to have sharp manipulative talents and super charged seduction skills (Gold-digging is an art form see). The vast majority of Somali women (in the West and home) are illiterate, ignorant and poorly educated. There are countless women who, having lived in the West for the best part of twenty years, still can’t adequately fill a form or carry a conversation in any language other than Somali (these are our sisters, relatives, acquaintances and friends). Nobody seems to be bothered with these shortcomings and many try to justify them with the usual excuses (she’s had a hard life, she’s here temporarily, she does not like it, she’s got her husband to translate/interpret for her, etc). Society, whether you like it or not, operates on different levels. I shan’t go deeply into class systems and the like, but I’d still say that YOU can determine what level in society you want to move in. If your only ambition in life is to be a housewife and bring up kids then you’ll, almost invariably, be mixing with those moving in the lower echelons of society. Yes, there are many educated housewives but there are many more that are NOT. In our society at least, one has to make a mark and distance oneself from such circles. I don’t suggest this for the superficial reasons of pride, arrogance or aloofness. I advise it because it’s the only way that will lift our housewives from the gutter. On the issue of organised education and how some belittle it, I fail to see what alternatives they could suggest. People have to have a basic level of knowledge (and no I’m not talking about the sun coming out in the morning, the moon at night and when you’re bursting for the loo it’s best that you don’t hold it in and risk wetting yourself). I’m talking about basic, conventional knowledge that will hold you in good stead in everyday life. Knowledge that, if nothing else, will help disguise our collective ignorance as humans! Being a graduate is only the start, what happens next depends on your personality, intelligence and drive. Of course there are anomalies and exceptions to this rule but unless one has already achieved ‘success’ one can’t just sit and hope. Still, you can have all the education in the world and still lack wisdom and common sense. However, having the knowledge will at least raise you above those that have neither knowledge nor wisdom. And, if the saying that wisdom comes with experience is true, why limit your experiences or force yourself to reinvent the wheel? Why not benefit from and build on the experiences of millions of others before you? We come from a poor, backwards and ignorant society. It’s dangerous and quite damaging to discourage education. The general cry, to my mind at least, should be that education comes before everything else. Organised, formal and conventional education at that and not the hippy and luxurious self-teaching type!

Originally posted by Salahh: Ngonge, I have no clue where you are coming from. First of all, I am surprised that you are content with having one man dominate another due to his/her financial troubles. Another thing, why do we need slaves if people can work and get paid for the amount of work they do? Would it be because we would like to mistreat them knowing that they wouldn't be able to do jack? I don't get it...break it down for me. All in all, I don't think any human can beautify slavery. It doesn't matter wether the economy depended on it....owning a human is unjust. Saaxib, this is not about condoning or condemning. It’s a discussion about slavery and I’m simply trying to look at things from all sides. Do you agree with the notion that humans throughout history tried to subjugate and dominate other humans? Do you think that this is an inherent human attribute? Again, is it part of our human makeup to seek to dominate another human’s will? Why was Slavery accepted for more than two thousand years and only regarded as ‘unjust’ in the past two hundred? How difficult would it be for the world to return to that time of slavery? Looking at man’s faults I can never discount the return of slavery. And, no, this is not about colour or origin; slavery knows no colour (though black was quite fashionable). Is it possible this is why Islam did not prohibit it outright?

Need to go further back to 12th July 1947. A very similar incident happened to the British authorities that were controlling Palestine at the time. Here is an extract: ........................................... One incident that stands out most is the hangings of Sergeants Martin and Paice. On the 16th of June 1947, a sentence of death had been passed by the British courts on three Jews who had participated in the attack on Acre prison in which many Jewish prisoners had regained their freedom. Almost a month later in the early hours of the 12th of July, two British field security NCOs Sergeants Paice and Martin were on duty in Nathanya in the company of the Jewish Clerk. They were held up by five armed Jews and driven off to a secret hiding place. For the next two weeks and British security forces diligently searched for the kidnapped sergeants but no trace of them was ever found. On the July 29th British authorities, unable to bow to the blackmail of the Irgun, even though British lives were at stake had no alternative but to allow the sentence of death on the three Jews to take it's course. Two days later, on the 31st to July, the bodies of the two British NCOs were found hanging from a eucalyptus tree one and a half miles from where they had been kidnapped. They had been dead for about two days. The area around the bodies was mined. The bodies had also been booby trapped. As the bodies were being cut down a hidden device on one body exploded. In this explosion a British officer was severely wounded. A few days later the Irgun posted notices in Hebrew on the walls around Haifa which read : Announcement The two British spies, Martin and Paice, who were under arrest by the underground since the July 12th have been put on trial, following the inquiry into their criminal anti Hebrew activities in. Martin and pace had been accused of the following crimes 1. Illegal entry into our home land : 2. Membership of the British criminal terrorist organize Asian known as the British army of occupation in Palestine, which is responsible: for depriving our people of the right to live; for cruel, oppressive acts; for tortures; for the murder of men, women and children; for the murder of prisoners of war; and deportation of Hebrew citizens from their country Homeland. 3. Illegal possession of arms intended for the enforcement of oppression and despotism : 4. Anti Jewish spying, disguised in civilian clothes : 5. Conspiracy against the Hebrew underground, it soldiers, bases and arms, the arms of freedom : The court has found two to be guilty of all charges and sentenced them to die by hanging by their necks until their souls would leave them. The request of the condemned man for clemency has been rejected. The sentence has been carried out. The hanging of the two British spies is not a retaliatory act for the murder of Hebrew prisoners-of-war, but it is an ordinary legal action of the court of the Underground which has sentenced will sentence the criminals who belong to the criminal Nazi British army of occupation. We shall revenge the blood of the prisoners war who have been murdered by actions of war against the enemy. The Court of Irgun Zvai Leumi In Eretz Israel. There are many more recorded incidents like these. It has to be said http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/kidnap.htm

Because they’re the loudest and they never stop telling us all that they’re the chosen sect. Advertising works, brother. Why do we all drink Coca Cola instead of Pepsi?

Care for "image", in this case, shows control by the whims of Aduunyo. The Mullahs do not live in the Aduunyo. Hmmm! I suppose after 16 years of destruction one can’t regard the capital as part of ‘aduunyo’. I have a feeling that you’re not being serious there. Too much bravado and no substance. I seem to recall these Mullahs that don’t care for the West shouting at the top of the lungs and trying to convince whoever would listen, that they are not terrorists. I’m sure Duke (if he’s around) can furnish us with some statements they made which show that they CARE for what the West thinks. Nothing wrong with that either, it’s politics and even Mullahs have to play the game from time to time. PS Who are the backers of these Mullahs? (Please don’t say God).

^^^^Though I’m a natural cynic, I’m actually rooting for the mullahs here. There are lots of things about them that I don’t agree with but, for the time being, I choose to ignore most such news and try to tell myself it’s only propaganda and lies. At least with this one power base in Somalia I can honestly believe that their intentions are good and true. How they convert these intentions into actions is what worries me. On a civic level, the application of some aspects of sharia law also worries me. I don’t want to get into an argument over sharia law itself but I can never feel comfortable with the cutting off of the hands of a poor person that resorted to theft (as opposed to someone reasonably well off that decided to steal out of wickedness). Nor do I endorse the stoning of badly informed folk. PS A skirt would only show off my herculean calves.

Originally posted by HornAfrique: Imagine my surprise when I found out it was none other then our former great imam of Seattle. A truly respectable leader in his own right who had, not only the the respect of Somalis, but of the whole Islamic community in the state of Washington. Imagine that, a great scholar and a former professor of Islamic studies. Kudos to the Courts! My support increases everytime I see the calibre of their members. Sheikh Ibrahim recently asked to be sent back to Somalia after being arrested and being held by the anti-terrorism and immigration officials on flimsy charges. First he was accused of lying to immigration officials, then of being a member of the ONLF, and then of other accusations. Everytime a charge was refuted, another soon followed until it was obvious to all that the good Sheikh was being held on acount of only being a respected religious leader. Since the harshest sentence of those charges was deportation, the good Sheikh volunteered to be sent back to his country after having coverted a total sum of 38 people in the Washington immigration facility at Tacoma. Earlier Arrest There goes the Sheikh in the left hand side with glasses and cimaamad. Sounds like the most controversial figure they could have chosen for these negotiations, saaxib! If they were not Wadaads, I’d read this choice as sticking two fingers to the USA. This of course is in no way a judgment from my side on the credentials (or otherwise) of this person. From a political point of view and seeing that the government and many others have been trying to paint the courts as terrorists and what not, I think this is a school boy mistake on the part of the Mullahs. They, more than anyone else, know that ‘image’ is everything.