Allyourbase;992080 wrote: I rest my case This is very funny actually. You all claim that your God placed these 'hints' to scientific concepts in your holy scripture for the purpose of, what exactly? What have you done with them except waiting for Kafir Gaalo research to latch onto and to somehow give the Quran a 21st century makeover. If there is science of any level in the Quran for you to take hold of and thrive in this Duniya would you not agree it was a miscalculation on the part of the author? How come not a single one of these alleged 'discoveries' was made by a Muslim? I have said it before and I will say it again- the Quran is not a science textbook but a spiritual guide for mankind. And just to remind you, I started this thread discuss about the Muslim world lack of progress in the sciences but Allah Almighty is not just "our" God; He is the Lord of the kaffirs too. Allyourbase;992080 wrote: Anyways back to Solomon: And Solomon inherited David. He said, "O people, we have been taught the language of birds , and we have been given from all things. Indeed, this is evident bounty." Quran 27:16 So imagine with me a grown man telling you today that he could conversate with birds, what would you say? Apparently one of the birds, a Hoopoe, was a double agent for king Solomon, it said to him: I found (there) a woman ruling over them and provided with every requisite; and she has a magnificent throne. Qur'an 27:23 Subxannallah Allah is the One who taught mankind to speak in languages so He also taught the birds and the ants to speak to each other and with his power gave Solomon the ability to converse with the animal world. Subxaanallah indeed ---- Allyourbase;992080 wrote: The Quran believes the moon has its own light, when in fact it is only reflecting the Sun's light: And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp? Qur'an 71:16 This verse makes the difference between the sun and the moon clear. The sun is referred to as a lamp and we all know lamps use fuel to generate light. Just like lamps which use oil to produce heat and light the sun uses hydrogen in nuclear reaction to generate heat and light. The moon on the other hand is referred to just as a light meaning its light is nothing but a reflection of the sun's light. ---- Allyourbase;992080 wrote: We know today about the big bang and the formation of the earth, but the Quran disagrees. It claims that the earth was created in six days : We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days , nor did any sense of weariness touch Us Qur'an 50:38 The Quran made it clear that time is relative and that the days mentioned in the above verse is not our short earthly days. The Angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day whose length is fifty thousand years. (Surat al-Ma‘arij, 4) He directs the whole affair from Heaven to Earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a Day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure. (Surat as-Sajda, 5) ---- Allyourbase;992080 wrote: What if I told you that the Quran claims the earth was created before the universe as you've put it there? It states that the earth was created before the 'seven heavens' with all of their galaxies and stars, which again we know today to be wrong, as elements making up the crust of the Earth today were first found in stars that have then exploded. He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven , and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things. Qur'an 2:29 The verse you mentioned makes it clear that the heaven and earth were already created before Allah made further changes to the already existing heaven. The link below will put your ridiculous suggestions to rest http://prophetrejectors.wordpress.com/category/proving-that-quran-is-from-god/

Allyourbase;991973 wrote: Let me get this, your religion is supported by Dailymail articles? Hayee please also explain the 950 year old and the speaking to birds as well. You can even cite articles from the Sun if it will help Do you see how ridiculous this all is Talaabo? Honestly, ila eeg these statements and tell me it is acceptable as we approach 2014. No my religion is not supported by the Dailymail. Indeed they ridicule us daily in their papers. However, the truth of Islam cannot be hidden or mocked for too long. People like you were mocking the Quran for centuries for stating that the ants talk and now we have a scientific confirmation of the truth in that statement. So the Dailymail has no choice but to report the Quranic truth to the world. In the Quran, prophet Noah is said to have lived 950 years. So what? There are animals and plants which have lifespans of centuries. We believe Almighty Allah is the Creator and Giver of life so your question about a mere 950 years makes no sense to us. How can I doubt Allah's power when humans are attempting to extend our lifespan to a thousand years?? http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/03/can-humans-live.html

Mahiigaan;992075 wrote: The heading is misleading as Somaliland is misleading to be a country. The country of the year is Uruguay with its humble President Jose Mojica. Everything is possible in the land of the Skinnies, we can even claim that Mogadishu is the most beautiful and fastest growing city city in the World and President will be the first Somali astronaut to Mars in the year 2016!. Yeah I noticed that. What do you expect from XX?

Gar_maqaate;992029 wrote: "Somaliland, has kept both piracy and Islamic extremism at bay" And yet there is a farmer Somaliland Minster on trial in the USA for Piracy and the head of al shaabab is a Somalilander. The statement I just made is factual correct but it is not a fair assessment of Somaliland and it still tells you more about Somaliland then the article above. It is also more than the Economist Journalists know about Somaliland. Watching the cries and desperation of Somaliland's haters is quite enjoyable;)

Allyourbase;991966 wrote: You have asked for it, more scientific contradictions in the Quran: The Quran claims of a certain beast that could speak to people are indeed impossible: And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), we shall produce from the earth a be ast to (face) them: He will speak to them , for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs. Qur'an 27:82 I mean, with all the research put into things like the great ape language we can say that no animal is able to people, waa waali cad taasu. ---- The Quran seems to borrow the jewish myth of King Solomon, here you see the claim that Solomon can control the wind, a claim that is so deep in mythology that it still exists in comic books read by children today. I do not blame Prophet Mohamed for he knew very little about atmospheric pressure but I blame those today who know how the wind works yet still believe that someone at somepoint was able to 'control it'. There is also the bizarre statement regarding a certain spring of liquid copper ! Waa yabka yaabkiss iga walle. I am ignoring the statement about the jin servants, it wont be fair on our believer brothers Then We subjected the wind to his power, to flow gently to his order, Whithersoever he willed Qur'an 38:36 And to Solomon [We subjected] the wind - its morning [journey was that of] a month - and its afternoon [journey was that of] a month, and We made flow for him a spring of [liquid] copper . A nd among the jinn were those who worked for him by the permission of his Lord. And whoever deviated among them from Our command - We will make him taste of the punishment of the Blaze. ---- Speaking of Solomon, he apparently also commanded huge armies of (wait for it) birds and jins, again a clear example of the Quran borrowing from Jewish mythology and something that is clearly impossible scientifically. Did I mention he spoke to birds too? And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds , and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts― of Jinns and men and birds , and they were all kept in order and ranks. Qur'an 27:16-17 ---- Our dearest Talaabo was disputing the impossibility of people to sleep for 300 years. Would it be a huge jump to assume he agrees with the Quran that certain people can live for up to a thousand years? We (once) sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years less fifty : but the Deluge overwhelmed them while they (persisted in) sin. Qur'an 29:14 Well, 950 years to be exact. :cool: A speaking beast Even the ants speak:D http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1137267/Getting-chest-Study-reveals-ants-talk-other.html Liquid copper Ever heard of a molten lava rich in minerals?? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16493787 Solomon Apparently Superman, Iran man, and the Spider man are pathetic copies of him:mad: Power is given by God and Solomon was blessed with all these powers.

Mr Allyourbase, I think you would like to read this similar debate. http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2011/03/sun-sets-in-murky-water-as-per-quran.html

Allyourbase;991963 wrote: Sxb what I am saying is very clear, however you choose not read it objectively. You agree that your knowledge of Arabic is not up to par, the translations that you have provided state that the sun rises and sets at a specific place, this is further supported by an authentic Hadith that says pretty much the same thing. You've been had sxb. You have refused an authentic Hadith which would put you (with me) in the Kafir slot in the eyes of some of the brothers here. Since you're there anyway why dont you have an other read of my post, without religious dogma this time. For everyone else, this is yet an other example of a seemingly reasonable person going all (because Allah says so) when faced with contradictions in their holy literature. Indeed what you have said is clear, a clear case of confusion:D My friend we know that even if the Quran had Einstein's equations as verses, you would still dispute its Divine origin because the Quran has told us what you and your fellow repels are like. But I will be patient with you for patience is a virtue unknown to the disbelievers. The Quran is translated by well-versed scholars so if you have an alternative translation kindly put it up here:o

^ My knowledge about Arabic is of no consequence here as the verses we have quoted are translated by illustrious scholars(may Allah be pleased with them) and I am sure they knew what they were doing. As I already mentioned, the hadiths no matter how they are classified are not without errors but I see you have given up finding faults in the Quran:o To make your arguments against the Quran look even more ridiculous here is yet another verse which indicated that the sun has no rising or setting "place". "So I swear by the Lord of [all] risings and settings that indeed We are able" Quran 70:40

Tillamook;991863 wrote: ^ Nimanka Mudug iyo Nugaal ka yimi dhulka iyagaa iska leg Wir wax ka dheh ina gumeedyahow .., All jokes aside, why can't we just all get along eh? There is a proven way to do just that but unfortunately Somalis have not yet discovered what that way is.

xiinfaniin;991799 wrote: This is aid is from Somalis everywhere in the world and in the country. Mogadishu donated $200, 000. Hargeysa I don't know , but I am sure Xaaji Habaar has the numbers. It is worth noting that this is aid is from Somalis not from NGOs, UN or Countries There are many people who were made homeless in Somaliland especially in Berbera area by that terrible cyclone. I think the people of Hargeisa are collecting aid for those victims.

Xaaji Xunjuf;991856 wrote: Remember when u used to try to convince some landers about the so called somaliweyn. Now that it all failed you believe in clan separations is your last card of the game. You blame cigaal though i never edited anything i am some how glad though he put an end to your little shifts war, fight your own battles not on the back of the people of the somali republic. Imagine if we actually freed you it would be different, after the civil war broke out. Somalis of somalia would had no where to flee, and you would fight somalilanders. Hada meel baad nagaga xiidhantahay. As for being allowed to leave the somali union somalilanders created the union in the first place somalilanders dont ask permission they just take what belongs to them like they did 1991. In 1960 the koonfurians were skeptical about sl motives wanting the union they thought there were other motives, today they are moving closer to restore relations. When kenyans like you are put aside all will work out as it all started with mogadishu iyo hargeisa labada meelood. Waar xaaji maxaa hortan walaaleena reer NFD lagaa siiyaa. Ninyow miyaa lugugu sixray dadkaas aad la diraysid uun.:mad:

Allyourbase;991803 wrote: The verse is not unscientific? Using stars as 'missiles' aimed at devils is unscientific? Come on sxb, I am prepared to give and take for the sake of the discussion but this is as unscientific as it gets. The fact that both were mentioned in the same verse clearly shows the Quran is confusing stars and meteorites. You speak of the seven heavens, what do you mean by that? No I can tell you that bacteria are asexual i.e. is not 'paired' as the Quran would describe. That is a fact, and one that the Quran got wrong, you've got to see that. You can not argue with what could or could not be, because if this was the case we would be sitting here all night. So either tell me how bacteria are made in pairs or accept this unscientific verse of Quran. Allah (SWT) is stating the five things that only Allah knows. This is explained by the Prophet in this hadith below (which is Sahih): Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) said, "Keys of the unseen knowledge are five which nobody knows but Allah . . . nobody knows what will happen tomorrow; nobody knows what is in the womb ; nobody knows what he will gain tomorrow; nobody knows at what place he will die; and nobody knows when it will rain ." Sahih Bukhari 2:17:149 As is also stated by all the Tafsiir of the Quran. So again this is clear contradiction to modern science. The Quran mentions the flat state of the earth because the understanding of the Prophet implied so. To further illustrate my point, lets look at the specific verses that mention the rising and setting place of the sun. These talk about the sun rising from and setting on fixed places which again goes on to strengthen the view of the Quran, i.e. that the Earth is indeed flat with fixed points at which the sun sets and rises again. Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun , he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. Qur'an 18:86 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun , he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom. Qur'an 18:90 As you must know the sun does not rise or set at a fixed place do its orbit around the sun, that is just impossible. But the book assumes the simple view of the world popular at the time that there was a fixed position whereby the sun would set and rise from again. You lost me there Ask yourself, why did all of these amazing miracles happen only in the past? Would it not be the case that a physical miracle today would lead to many people embracing islam? I understand you are trying to defend your faith but you must clearly see how this is just plain myth. Our bodies would not last one year let alone 300 years. Open your eyes sxb. Now you are going in circles desperately trying to twist the words so others can see things from your point of view, a point of view which has no basis in reality. The Quran did not say the sun sets in a "place" or rises from a "place". It only describes an environment/scene/view at the setting and rising of the sun. Much like someone describing the surroundings on a tropical beach at sun set. For your benefit here are four translations of the verses you mentioned and they only describe a scene. Quran18:86 YUSUFALI: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." PICKTHAL: Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. SHAKIR: Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit. Sahih International: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness." Quran 18:90 YUSUFALI: Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. PICKTHAL: Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom. SHAKIR: Until when he reached the land of the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people to whom We had given no shelter from It; Sahih International:Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield. Mate give up, there is no point in searching for faults in the Quran because there are non.

Allyourbase;991780 wrote: Dear Tallaabo, we are not talking here about stars in other galaxies and supernovae, the Holy Quran is very clear in its Arabic: السماء الدنيا Which is the nearest heaven, i.e. the world's heaven. Now the verse attempts to explain shooting stars as missiles directed at jinn who eavesdrop on Angels. But in doing so lumps them up with Stars, which would have been a fine explanation in the 7th century but we know today they are different things. The implied purpose for creating things in pairs is for reproduction which is proven above that some species do not have a need for. As with regards to your claim (and the Quran's) that all things are in pairs, I am sorry to say but that is not correct. If we are being scientific, then viruses are neither male nor female, same for bacterium which multiplies by cell division. In addition, there are a organisms that have both male and female parts, see Hermaphrodite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite This makes no sense. It is clear that the use of 'rounded course' is describing the orbit of the Sun and the Moon and no the Earth . The Quran believed that the Earth is stationary in it is the Sun that orbits the earth as seen in Hadiths posted earlier. The verse translates as such: And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming . You can see all the translation of this particular verse below, I do not know where 'rounded' comes from: http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=21&verse=33 I have noticed that you did not attempt to explain the Quran's claim of the impossibility of forecasting the rain and knowing whats in the womb , as you can see it is also supported by a Sahih Hadith. I would have also loved to see you explain how it is that people could sleep for over 300 years. All of this clearly speaks of a simple understanding of the world by someone who lived in the 7th century. I cant believe how you cant see it. Stars In the Quran Allah takes about seven heavens. Of these seven the first is the one adorned with the stars, it is our universe. In additions to the supernovas which produce projectiles in the form of hot gases, comets are also the product of stardust. So this verse is not unscientific. Pairs The verse says everything is created in pairs and does not say these pairs are created for the purpose of reproduction. There are many things in nature which are in pairs both living and non-living, microscopic and macroscopic. The numerous different varieties of viruses and bacteria in nature could be pairs in different ways be it physical or functional. Humanity is still learning about nature and discoveries are being made on daily basis so we will see what sort of ways things are paired up. You can tell me there no pairs in the microbes because we do not know everything about them. No expert can claim to have a complete knowledge about his/her field. So this verse is also no unscientific. Weather Here is the verse again: "Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things)".Quran 31:34 It does not say we cannot predict the weather or not see what is in the womb. The carpet The Quran is not a science book but is not wrong about science either. Its purpose is to give humanity a spiritual guidance so only deals with subjects briefly. The Earth is implied to be spherical by several verses describing the overlapping night and day and the spherical orbits. Yes rounded orbits, that is what the verse I mentioned says. The spread-out like a carpet feeling due to the earths size and gravitational pull is from our perspective and it is what makes this planet so habitable and homely. It is what the Almighty is asking us to reflect upon. 300 year sleep This is so easy for the Creator who created everything, the Lord of life and death, the Lord who keeps us conscious and takes it away when He intends to. The Lord who nourishes our bodies. My friend come up which better arguments please.

DoctorKenney;991785 wrote: Tallaabo....instead of addressing these arguments directly in an endless back-and-forth discussion that bears no fruit. Just leave it. You're not knowledgeable enough to address these arguments head-on (as most people of course) All of these arguments are all addressed on www.letmeturnthetables.com Click on the link and go on the Articles section. There are plenty of other forums and articles that address this. Thanks doctor. I am certainly not an expert in Islam but will give my point of view, my understanding of the meaning.

Mr Allyourbase you have no argument here. Stars like bombs do produce projectiles when they explode in supernova. I am sure you don't want to get close to one. And yes all the living things are in pairs. The species you posted are also in pairs(male and female) regardless of how they reproduce. As for the earth, Allah indicated that it is a spherical body when he me revealed this verse and others like it. "It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course." Quran 21:33 Although it is spherical, due to its immense size and gravitational pull this planet gives us the impression that it is spread out and flat. It is indeed this carpet-like property of the earth which makes it so homely and secure which Almighty Allah is asking us to think about as a blessing from Him.

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar;991722 wrote: No body ka quustay Soomaaliya iyo dalkeena. What decent folks on here have given up is 'debating' with trolls whose very existence, it seems, is to be content inay Soomaaliya saan kusii jirto. Their hatred iyaga ayaa u dhimanaayo and it is a waste of breath to engage with them. Hatred against who?:confused:

^ The water-maals are our cousins waaryaa. We should give them moral support.

Che -Guevara;991742 wrote: What's so amazing this thread, it was started by Ditoore. The guy got transformed overnight like qori ismaris;) Instead of the SNM tribe, he now hates the Arabs and Mogadishu replaced Boosaaso as the promised land.

^ Although the Sahih hadiths are considered to be the most authentic, they like the Christian bible are compiled by collecting bits and pieces from a large number of people in a wide geographic area long after prophet Mohammed(scw) passed away. So their contents can never be free form human error. Among the hadith literature, those sections which deal with day-to-day rituals like prayers, fasting, alms, Hajj, etc. have a higher degree of authenticity because of the large number of people practising these rituals on regular basis from the time when the prophet(scw) was alive. Other sections which deal with rituals and laws that are rarely applied are of course more prone to have errors. In Islam, the Quran is the foremost source of law so for instance if we take your breastfeeding argument as a case study, we see from the holy Quran that these hadiths cannot be taken literally because in the Quran Almighty Allah forbade all mature women from showing off their body to non related males. " And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss." Quran 24:31 On top of that Allah brought down a special ruling for the wives of the prophet(scw) who are also considered as the mothers of the believers in the following verse: "And when you ask (his wives) for something you want, ask them from behind a curtain (hijab). That makes for greater purity for your hearts and theirs." (33:53)

http://www.bradtguides.com/articles-somaliland-beacon-of-peace.html

Allyourbase;991675 wrote: Again Tallaabo, define authentic. I say this because authentic for you may not be authentic for the poster above you. How do you define it? Is it an understanding based on Quran alone? On Quran and Hadiths? On various Tafsiir books? By authentic I mean the holy Quran and what can be attributed to prophet Mohamed(scw) beyond reasonable doubt. As the Quran is protected by Almighty Allah from corruption, its authenticity and authority is not disputed but the problem begins with the hadiths, their interpretations and commentary by various scholars over the years, and the subsequent fatwas issued based on these interpretations and the point of views of those who studied these hadiths.

Safferz;991484 wrote: Thanks Tallaabo Today I went out and bought a crapload of art supplies -- oil pastels, watercolour paint, pencil crayons, markers, etc. I used to be really into it in high school but pretty much quit anything creative I used to do when I started university. So now that I have some time off, why not get back into it? Did you know they make people in psych wards colour? It relieves stress I watched a documentary about it. Some people with learning difficulties can indeed be great artists.

I doubt anyone in Somaliland takes this guy seriously. He is probably there to entertain the Koonfurians:D

OdaySomali;991627 wrote: We are Somalis. Somalis of the Somali Republic. The Somali Repiblic of the Somali Peninsula. And we are known the world as such. We have no other country. We have no other people. We must re-assert our independence and reclaim our dignity, lest we cease to exist as a country and as a people. You make no sense here. You seem to be stuck in the past, almost time-frozen. You are sounding like someone peaching that the people of Russia and Latvia are still citizens of the erstwhile USSR when if fact those nations have been on completely different trajectories in the past 22 years. Brother OS, you and others like you are far from being the solution to the problems of Koonfuria, you are the problem itself. Instead of wasting your time trying to find solutions to a problem which existed in another country which belonged to another era and now sits firmly in the trash heap of history, try to be a little more pragmatic about the current realities on the ground. It would be wiser if you start with the aggressions of the HAG against the peace loving people of Lower Shabeele.

Somaliland should abandon its neutrality in southern affairs and side with the D-block if the HAG do not stop their aggression against the water-maal.