LoL, there was a debate on the radio this morning about this incident. Most are blaming the parents. Looks like the waitor has already been dealt with.

The people. They havnt won over 'the people'. Much is being said about Somalia being 'cleaned up' and what not but it is very simple. The people do not want this govnt!

The Hotel, The Waitor or the Parents? Toddler gets burnt after falling on hotel grill By Bassam Za'za', Staff Reporter Published: August 29, 2007, 23:46 Dubai: A father whose two-year-old boy fell on a grill and sustained 15 per cent permanent disability is suing the hotel, where the accident happened, and its waiter for $2 million [about Dh7.34m] compensation. The two-year-old Russian boy sustained 30 per cent body burns and according to medical reports, his skin lost part of its function which regulates the body temperature. The accident happened during a barbecue beach party which the five-star hotel management threw for its customers. The Indian waiter was making some candies and serving a boy seated 12 meters away from the grill when the Russian boy fell on the charcoal. Responsibility The two-year-old victim was rushed to hospital where it was reported that he sustained second and third degree burns in different parts of his body. The hotel's lawyer Dr Habib Al Mulla, of Habib Al Mulla and Co Advocates and Legal Consultants, will submit his defence to the Dubai Civil Court next month. The Dubai Court of Appeal fined the Indian waiter Dh3,000 and held him responsible for the accident due to negligence. The father is seeking medical, financial, moral and emotional compensation for the accident which took place at the hotel. http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Police_and_The_Courts/10150183.html

Amin.

Talk about crappy taste Ma aragtay :rolleyes:

^^thats not fair. Give this thread at least a week,,,,,,,and it will be way back on page 3 of the general section Jokes aside, what is there to discuss? Should the poster not post something to discuss?

LOOL They dont make them like they used to,,,,

Originally posted by Ghanima: They taste nasty, I cannot even describe how bad they taste, even the memory is making me sick! I did not vomit but I spat it out, people were not best pleased. You drank the 'dhanaan' one dear. It was probably a few hours old. Try it fresh its tastier than normal cow milk and healthier.

Wonder why 'some' are avoiding this thread?

Originally posted by Johnny B: ^Let me be nice and just ask you, what kind of evolution are you claiming to not have taken place? skip it, don't answer , i just dont have enough energy to explain the obvious. I've another idea , let us turn this thread to a place where we proof that Evolution of any kind hasent taken place by using the following if and then assertions. let me start , If evolution is right then why men have two breasts(nibbles)? :confused: So are you defending Darwinism or not? Do you believe you was an Ape in a previous millenia?

They are opinions but not the opinions I was talking about.

No, no. Opinions on the use of astronomical calculations in determining the beginning and end of lunar months. The one's you mentioned do exist and I remember some Pakistani brothers (a minority) at College/Uni doing that.

You seem to enjoy writing in riddles of late (or do I just not understand you?) Maybe its your fall back strategy, I don’t know. But being a staunch pro-science so and so, where is the proof that there actually was any evolution? Where are the non-charlatan scientists to ‘show us the money’? Even the Christians are on board with ‘Intelligent design’. A losing battle for the ‘oh it just happened so believe it’ numpties wouldn’t you say?

Ramadan Starts on October 5 in Europe: ECFR CAIRO, October 1, 2005 (IslamOnline.net) – The holy fasting month of Ramadan is to start in Europe on Wednesday, October 5, according to astronomical calculations, the European Council for Fatwa and Research (ECFR) said Saturday, October 1. The Dublin-based council, the main religious authority for Muslims in the West, said moon sighting will not be possible in Makkah, Saudi Arabia, or across Europe on Monday, September 3. It did not cite the partial eclipse of the Sun, which astronomers expect on Monday. The vice-chairman of the Arab Union for Astronomy and Space Sciences (AUASS)'s Moon Sighting Department said on Thursday, September 29, that a partial eclipse would occur Monday, which will make it impossible to sight the Ramadan moon. The ECFR, which meets twice a year in Europe, aims to serve Muslims living in the West and facilitate their positive integration into society while preserving their Islamic identity. Hard Evidence The council, headed by prominent scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, said hard scientific evidence by astronomers overpowers "uncertain" and "hypothetical" counts given by people. The council, however, stressed that such evidence should neither be based on calendars nor given by those who practice astrology, which is rejected by Islam. Astrologists believe that the positions of certain celestial bodies either influence or correlate with people's personality traits, important events in their lives, and even physical characteristics. "But this evidence is all about the contemporary astronomy built on scientific and mathematical bases," said the statement. The council has further called on Muslims worldwide to act in unison ahead of the dawn-to-dusk fasting month. The Islamic Shura Council in North America (ISCNA) has said that a confirmed moon sighting report in North America will be accepted as long as it does not contradict indisputable astronomical information. The council consists of the main Muslim organizations in North America: the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the Muslim American Society (MAS) and the American Muslim Association of North America (AMANA). Moon sighting has always been a controversial issue among Muslim countries, and even scholars seem at odds over the issue. While one group of scholars sees that Muslims in other regions and countries are to follow this sighting as long as these countries share one part of the night, another states that Muslims everywhere should abide by the lunar calendar of Saudi Arabia. A third, however, disputes both views, arguing that Islam is against division and disunity, since Muslims, for instance, are not allowed to hold two congregational prayers in one mosque at the same time. This group believes that the authority in charge of ascertaining the sighting of the moon in a given country (such as Egypt's Dar al-Iftaa [House of Fatwa]) announces the sighting of the new moon, then Muslims in the country should all abide by this. http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2005-10/01/article05.shtml

Question: Dear Sheikh Ahmad, as-salamu `alaykum. Recently, ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) decided to depend solely on astronomical calculations in determining the beginning and end of lunar months, including Ramadan. They say that sighting the new moon by the human eyes is not an act of worship, but a means to know the beginning and end of lunar months. They argue that astronomical calculations can play that role and unite at least Muslims of America. They announced the beginning and the end of the coming Ramadan. They even issued an Islamic calendar, based on the astronomical calculations, for some years to come. How do you see this issue? Shihab - United States Wa`alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh. In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. Thanks very much for your question, which comes at a critical time for North American Muslims. Before responding to your question, we would like first to direct the attention of Muslims in North America and elsewhere to the paramount importance of unity and solidarity. We call upon all Muslims in North America, especially those with a view opposing ISNA's, to put their unity as a community as a priority before delving into internal differences on this issue. Moreover, it is high time for us to truly base our approaches concerning juristic issues on the pristine sources of Islam. We should stop feeding animosity. Critical issues like this should be judged with wisdom while placing the unity of Muslims as a top priority. If we consider all this and kept in mind that ISNA has made a real contribution to North American Muslims and made their unity a priority, then we will see that we should not promote our differences to the detriment of the well-being of Muslims. Responding to the question, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states the following: I can very well agree with the decision of ISNA Fiqh Council on this matter. Such a decision is long overdue. My reasons for this are the following: 1. During the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), sighting the new moon with the naked eyes was the only means available for the people, as he himself said: "We are a people who are unlettered." He did not mean that he would like his people to stay at that level forever. Given the condition of his time, naked-eye sighting was the only possible choice. 2. We know from evidence that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used every opportunity to lift the Ummah out of illiteracy to literacy and civilization. 3. The Qur'an provides ample evidence for scientific observation of the sun and the moon. Astronomy today is a science that is based on observation of the position of the sun and the moon. So by following scientific methods of calculations, we are still observing the moon but not by naked eyes, rather by far more precise instruments. Therefore, we are not contradicting the original intent of the Prophetic dictum that orders us to observe the moon. 4. The fact that the scholars of the past did not base the beginnings of months on scientific calculations cannot be used as an argument, for in their time, there was little difference between astrology and astronomy. Today astronomy is a science. The Qur'an already taught us that the sun and moon revolve in their own orbits and that they follow fixed divine laws. They do not run erratically, so there is an observable pattern to be discovered through observation, which is what scientists do. That is why Imam Subki and others also supported calculations even before the snowballing of scientific knowledge. Furthermore, by following calculations we can facilitate the observance of the festivals and plan for them way before their time. This is a great maslahah (public interest) for those living in the West. The principle of taysir (facilitation) is a great consideration that we can never dispense with in this time and age. In conclusion, for reasons mentioned above and others, I agree with ISNA's position. This would be a great step for moving the Ummah towards a united position. Link

A difference of opinion does not mean confused dear,,,,

Ramadan start date to differ again By Habib Toumi, Bureau Chief Published: August 27, 2007, 23:06 Manama: Pinning the start of Ramadan this year will again be a point of debate in the Muslim world as 1.2 billion Muslims will most likely begin observing Ramadan on three different days, a professor in Bahrain said. "Muslims in at least one country will start fasting on September 12 while the others will begin either on September 13 or 14," Dr Waheeb Al Nasser yesterday said in a statement to the press. "I believe that Libya will be the first country to announce the start of Ramadan on September 12," said the physics professor at the University of Bahrain. Social divisions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The start of Ramadan, the ninth month of the lunar-based Islamic calendar, has been a source of heated debate among Muslims upset over how countries are claiming sightings on different dates and starting the month on different days. The clash is mainly between conservatives who insist on seeing the moon with the naked eye, in line with a literal interpretation of Islamic principles. This is in contrast to those who call for the use of astronomical calculations to predict the start of the month. For the naked-eye sightings, varying geographical and weather conditions mean that people in different locations cannot see the appearance of the moon, making Muslims around the world fast on different days. However, the strict interpretation of the visibility stipulation is increasingly becoming a source of national and social divisions, defeating the call for unity preached by Islam during the sacred month. "It is regrettable that some countries still reject any role for astronomers in determining the first and last days of Ramadan. "I sincerely wish that the committee of the scholars who decide on the first day of Ramadan and the start of Eid would use science and astronomy," Al Nasser said. Religious scholars should reconsider their views about technology and astronomy by following the example of Saudi Arabia which has recently built 11 astronomy observatories and launched a satellite, he said. http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Bahrain/10149551.html

Or maybe a video would help.

The real reason behind 'Darwinism' As Harun Yahya explains, the theory of evolution does not limit itself to the field of biology; rather, it has socio-political, economic, religious, scientific, and ethical repercussions and effects [in] all spheres of life. The author explains that the objective of evolutionism is to destroy the belief in God, the Creator, in accordance with the agenda of materialist atheists . Evolution Deceit is particularly important as it exposes the hidden agenda of the evolutionists. It becomes evident that as a thesis, as a philosophy, but most of all as an ideology, the theory of evolution is intrinsically evil. http://www.evolutiondeceit.com/global_impact.php

^^Can any 'enlightened' scientist challenge brother Haruun's observations? Anyone?

LoL Its a EU wide thing saxib. They are all getting the jitters because of the 'Islamic bogey eyed monster'. Their lives, ideologies, culture and now their sky line is at risk. As long as they can get drunk on the weekend whats their problem? :rolleyes:

Qatar to build first Christian church for 1,400 years... Written by Islamic Times Thursday, 01 December 2005 The first Christian church in Qatar since the arrival of Islam in the 7th century is to be built in the conservative Muslim state. The £4 million development of the Church of the Epiphany, which will not have a spire or free-standing cross, will begin early next year on land donated by the Emir of Qatar, Shaykh Hamad bin Khalifa al- Thani. The Rev Clive Handford, the Anglican Bishop based in Nicosia in Cyprus and the Gulf, said: "We are there as guests in a Muslim country and we wish to be sensitive to our hosts . . . but once you're inside the gates it will be quite obvious that you are in a Christian centre." The grounds of the church, on the outskirts of the capital, Doha, will have crosses and flower motifs resembling those used in early Christian churches. Bishop Handford said "We hope that the centre can be a base for ongoing Muslim- Christian dialogue," Qatar has in recent years estimated the number of its Anglican community to number between 7,000 and 10,000 people. The site for the church has been levelled and a quarter of the £4 million needed has been raised by the Anglican community in Qatar, with the rest to be met by fundraising abroad. The church will be run by Ian Young, a 58-year-old Scot who has served as Doha's chief Anglican priest since 1991. History books will show that Christianity disappeared from most Gulf Arab states within a few hundred years of the arrival of Islam in the 7th century AD. But with no surprise, Westerners including Christians migrants have started to move back to the region over the past 100 years, particularly since the discovery of oil. As a consequence, some Gulf states have allowed churches to be built, for example Kuwait, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, where Westernfriendly governments have sought to provide amenities in tourism and the labour force to attract skilled migrants. Some citizens of Qatar have expressed their dissatisfaction at their governments decision to make a church, stating that the money would be better spent in helping Muslims in poorer countries. Bishop Handford accepts that some people of Qatar might not be happy saying that "In the conservative Muslim world you'd expect it," he said. "You'd get the same in the conservative Christian world where mosques are being built." He added: "However we haven't experienced any problems or difficulties with the local people where the Church is being built. They have been welcoming and felt that this was right." The congregation will take security precautions but no "dramatic" measures are planned. Qatar, home to huge gas reserves and enjoying an economic boom, prides itself on its security. With a population of fewer than one million, centred mainly in Doha, it is confident that it can keep an eye on everybody. http://www.islamictimes.co.uk/content/view/92/50/ So we go from anti mosque building to donating land for a Church!. Cajiib!

Euro Mosque bans - Are our leaders too busy building more to bother fighting for their rights? Tuesday, 07 August 2007 "The desire of Muslims to build a house of worship means they want to feel at home and live in harmony," said Alboga. PARIS — Though Islam is the continent's second religion, Muslims across Europe are facing campaigns from far-right groups and some church leaders to have stately mosques. "The desire of Muslims to build a house of worship means they want to feel at home and live in harmony with their religion in a society they have accepted as theirs," German Muslim leader Bekir Alboga told Reuters on Monday, August 6. Muslims across Europe, who have long prayed in garages and old factories, are aspiring to have grand mosques. In Germany, a plan by the Turkish Islamic Union (DITIB) to build a grand mosque in Cologne has met opposition on claims that it would be too big for a city housing one of the most imposing Gothic cathedrals in the Christian world. Leading the anti-mosque campaign is Pro Cologne, a far-right organization which has held five seats in Cologne's city council since 2004. A mosque project in Pankow, an eastern Berlin area, sparked violent clashes with neo-Nazi groups with a truck being torched at the construction site. A local council voted against a third in Munich. Germany is home to some 3.2 million Muslims, Europe's second-biggest Muslim population after France. Europe-wide In London, a petition against a grand mosque next to the 2012 London Olympics site was posted on Prime Minister Gordon Brown's Web site. Critics of the London mosque, led by London Borough of Newham Councillor Allan Craig, an MP for the Christian Peoples Alliancea, described the planned mosque as the "the biggest symbol so far of the Islamic colonisation of England." In Germany, a plan by the Turkish Islamic Union (DITIB) to build a grand mosque in Cologne has met charges it will be too big for a city housing one of the most imposing Gothic cathedrals in the Christian world. A mosque project in Pankow, an eastern Berlin area with few Muslims, sparked also violent clashes last month between supporters and opponents. Neo-Nazi groups have joined the protests and a truck was torched at the construction site in March. A local council voted against a third in Munich. In France, which is home to Europe's largest Muslim minority of about five million, a far-right political party, the National Republican Movement (MNR), won two court cases this year against giving pieces of land at low prices to Muslims to build two mosques in suburbs of Montreuil and in Marseille, both having a sizable Muslim minority. Most Marseille Muslims now pray in neighbourhood mosques too small for their congregations. In Switzerland, two right-wing parties have launched a petition for a referendum to ban minarets on mosques there. Italy's anti-immigration Northern League called last month for all mosques there to be closed for security checks. In December 2006, protesters left a severed pig's head outside a mosque being built in the Italian town of Colle di Val d'Elsa. In Greece, Muslims only got their first purpose-built mosque in Athens in June. Plans for a larger one are still on hold. Faulting state statistics about the growing number of mosques, Muslims in the Spanish autonomous province of Catalonia have called repeatedly for a grand mosque to meet the needs of the sizable minority instead of the dozens of prayer rooms and vaults that burst at the seams with worshippers. No sooner had Muslims in the Catalonian city of Barcelona started raising funds for the much-hoped place of worship mosque than the council reneged on its promise, arguing that the issue was not a priority. Far-right groups also proposed this year to ban minarets in Switzerland. "Islamization" "I have a queasy feeling (about mosques)," Geraman Catholic Cardinal Joachim Meisner said. Critics claim mosques are signs of the "Islamization" of Europe. "I have a queasy feeling," Cologne Catholic Cardinal Joachim Meisner told Reuters. "A mosque would give the city a different panorama. Given our history, there is a shock that Muslim immigration has brought a cultural rupture in our German and European culture." Riem Spielhaus, an expert on Islam in Europe at Berlin's Humboldt University, argued that mosque construction is a controversial issue because houses of worship in general have a high symbolic value in Europe, where the cathedral or church is usually the center of town. "A mosque symbolically retraces the changes that have been made in society," she said. "It reopens the debate on whether these changes are good, whether Muslims should live here, even whether Islam is a good religion." Spielhaus said opposition to mosques is also related to other issues irrelevant to the house of worship itself like Islam as a religion and security threats. Last month, the private secretary of Pope Benedict XVI of the Vatican gave voice to a spiraling Islamophobia in the continent warning of the "Islamization of Europe" and urging defense of Europe's "Christian roots." Rights "Everyone has a right to a significant house of worship," Marseille Mayor Jean-Claude Gaudin said. Despite opposition from right-wingers and come church leaders, mosque plans are usually backed by city officials and mayors, who see them as pivotal to help Muslims integrate into European societies. Former London mayor Ken Livingstone was one of the staunchest supporters of constructing grand mosques for Muslims. He rallied behind the plan for a grand mosque near the Olympics site, defending it as a symbol of communal harmony. The mayor of the Italian town of Colle di Val d'Elsa, Paolo Brogioni, has also defended Muslim plans for a mosque. "The Muslims are just as much residents of the town as any other," ha had said. The Cologne mosque is equally supported by all political parties, trade unions, and associations. Mayor Jean-Claude Gaudin of Marseille wants a "cathedral mosque" built after decades of debate. "Everyone has a right to a significant house of worship." http://mpacuk.org/content/view/3921/34/

Comments Feature: Mosque Plans Across Europe Face Protests Petitions in London, protests in Cologne, a court case in Marseille and a violent clash in Berlin -- Muslims in Europe are meeting resistance to plans for mosques that befit Islam's status as the continent's second religion. Posted: Monday, August 6, 2007, 11:49 (BST)Font Scale:A A A Critics of the London mosque, led by a local councillor from a Christian group, argue a large mosque with room for 12,000 worshipers will turn the integrated neighbourhood into a "one-faith zone" driving out followers of other faiths. They also charge that Tablighi Jamaat , the Islamic missionaries building the mosque, are a security risk because "shoe-bomber" Richard Reid and two suicide bombers in the July 2005 London attacks followed the publicity-shy movement. In Cologne, DITIB's plan for a modern Ottoman-style mosque has met charges it will be too big for a city housing one of the most imposing Gothic cathedrals in the Christian world. "I have a queasy feeling," Catholic Cardinal Joachim Meisner said. "A mosque would give the city a different panorama. Given our history, there is a shock that Muslim immigration has brought a cultural rupture in our German and European culture." A mosque project in Pankow, an eastern Berlin area with few Muslims, sparked violent clashes last month between supporters and opponents. Neo-Nazi groups have joined the protests and a truck was torched at the construction site in March. "EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT..." France, whose five million-strong Muslim minority is Europe's largest, has a longer history of mosques in its cities and many mayors provide land at low cost for them. A far-right political party, the National Republican Movement , unexpectedly won two court cases this year against these subsidies in the Paris suburb of Montreuil and in Marseille, where a quarter of the population is Muslim. Mayor Jean-Claude Gaudin of Marseille was so set on seeing a "cathedral mosque" built after decades of debate that he quickly got approval for a new contract at slightly higher rates. "Everyone has a right to a significant house of worship," he told the city council. Most Marseille Muslims now pray in neighbourhood mosques too small for their congregations. In Switzerland, two right-wing parties have launched a petition for a referendum to ban minarets on mosques there. Italy's anti-immigration Northern League called last month for all mosques there to be closed for security checks. In December 2006, protesters left a severed pig's head outside a mosque being built in the Tuscan town of Colle di Val d'Elsa. Concern about Islam has deep roots in some countries. In Greece, which lived for four centuries under Ottoman Turkish rule, Muslims only got their first purpose-built mosque in Athens in June. Plans for a larger one are still on hold. In Spain, a bastion of Islamic culture for eight centuries until 1492, Catholic leaders nervously turned down a request from Muslims to pray in Cordoba Cathedral, originally a mosque. A local Muslim group wants to build a half-scale replica of the mosque for its own use, but has not yet submitted its plan. http://www.christiantoday.com/article/feature.mosque.plans.across.europe.face.protests/12106-2.htm

Well done to them. The amount of time I spent trying to call people was just crazy,,,,