Somaliland authority consolidates Tukoraq and surrounding regions...

[Suldaanka]

 

[Old_Observer]

Aren't you afraid that, these incidents are following the same pattern as happened with Eritrea and Afar-Tigray if we take Somaliland as Eritrea and Afar-Tigray as Puntland?

There has to be a different way of approaching this.

[Suldaanka]

7 hours ago, Old_Observer said:

Aren't you afraid that, these incidents are following the same pattern as happened with Eritrea and Afar-Tigray if we take Somaliland as Eritrea and Afar-Tigray as Puntland?

There has to be a different way of approaching this.

 

And what was the pattern regarding Eritrea? And what is the different way of approaching this?

[Holac]

@Old_Observer, can you elaborate what happened and what the end-result was? I am curious. 

[Old_Observer]

Suldaanka, Holac,

 

We are all aware that colonial borders were not set by someone walking the places. The way they were set was from mountain or hill such and such, to river such and such..etc.

Generally speaking this would be less of a problem among Somalis, since two most significant factors that of Language and culture, Religion would not be an issue, but peoples daily life is regulated by clan, sub-clan, village, territory etc. That is where problems happen.

 

This is big problem between Eritrea and Sudan and between Eritrea and Ethiopia. Eritrea and Sudan share 3 peoples: Tigre (Tigray +Beniamer Beja), Hidareb(beja) and Rashayda(Arabs). Most of these border people are nomads. Never observed the borders until Eritrea became independent country.

 

The border between Ethiopia and Eritrea has Afar, Irob, Tigrinya and Kunama as shared peoples. The famous place of the border conflict was called Badme. The border in this area was done between Italy and Ethiopia by pointing from one hill to a place where two rivers meet. It so happened that with use of modern satellites the village was split. Most houses were on Ethiopian side including a church, but the cemetery falls on Eritrea side. Has not been resolved to date. Of course Ethiopia controls the area since they evicted and defeated Eritrea, but Eritrea has court decision on its side.

There is similar cases with the Irob where couple of villages are on Eritrea side while 95% of the Irob are in Ethiopia. Again this is also under Ethiopia since they took it by force.

 

The lasting solution to such problems is letting the 2-3 illages of Irob join those in Ethiopia.

 

 

[Holac]

Quote

The Saho are predominantly Muslim. A few Christians, who are also known as the Irob, live in the Tigray region of Ethiopia and the Debub Region of Eritrea.^[5]

 

Isn't it fair to say that bringing the Irob (Catholic Saho people) under Ethiopian "Christian" rule was the main thing driving Ethiopia-Eritrea war? Irob is one of the clans of Saho people. Sahos are 90% Muslim and are cushitic people who mainly live in Eritrea. Irob are the only Saho clan that is Christian and Ethiopia wanted to separate them from Eritrea. 

[Old_Observer]

8 minutes ago, Holac said:

 

Isn't it fair to say that bringing the Irob (Catholic Saho people) under Ethiopian "Christian" rule was the main thing driving Ethiopia-Eritrea war? Irob is one of the clans of Saho people. Sahos are 90% Muslim and are cushitic people who mainly live in Eritrea. Irob are the only Saho clan that is Christian and Ethiopia wanted to separate them from Eritrea. 

 

The Irob are Tigray by ancestry, check from their own web site. They originate from village closest to Negash. They are Orthodox, Catholic and Moslems.

The Saho are rebelling in Eritrea too, but against injustice and not against independence of Eritrea.

 

Since people are intermingled everywhere religion has not been a separating issue in these areas. There are Moslems in every nationality and there are Christians in every nationality (of course different percentages) in northern Ethiopia and Eritrea. Remember first Moslems are deep inside the first Christians and both have same ancestry and language.

 

 

[Suldaanka]

12 hours ago, Old_Observer said:

Suldaanka, Holac,

 

We are all aware that colonial borders were not set by someone walking the places. The way they were set was from mountain or hill such and such, to river such and such..etc.

Generally speaking this would be less of a problem among Somalis, since two most significant factors that of Language and culture, Religion would not be an issue, but peoples daily life is regulated by clan, sub-clan, village, territory etc. That is where problems happen.

 

This is big problem between Eritrea and Sudan and between Eritrea and Ethiopia. Eritrea and Sudan share 3 peoples: Tigre (Tigray +Beniamer Beja), Hidareb(beja) and Rashayda(Arabs). Most of these border people are nomads. Never observed the borders until Eritrea became independent country.

 

The border between Ethiopia and Eritrea has Afar, Irob, Tigrinya and Kunama as shared peoples. The famous place of the border conflict was called Badme. The border in this area was done between Italy and Ethiopia by pointing from one hill to a place where two rivers meet. It so happened that with use of modern satellites the village was split. Most houses were on Ethiopian side including a church, but the cemetery falls on Eritrea side. Has not been resolved to date. Of course Ethiopia controls the area since they evicted and defeated Eritrea, but Eritrea has court decision on its side.

There is similar cases with the Irob where couple of villages are on Eritrea side while 95% of the Irob are in Ethiopia. Again this is also under Ethiopia since they took it by force.

 

The lasting solution to such problems is letting the 2-3 illages of Irob join those in Ethiopia.

 

 

 

I don't think there is any parallels  the border issue between Ethio & Eritrea to that of Somaliland and Somalia 

 

The issue with Puntland is not about a dispute of where the border line runs that of which existed between Ex-British Somaliland and Ex-Italian Somalia. They know where that border is located. However, they don't recognise as a president fact. Instead they want to create a border based on kinship/clan affiliation. Mind you, the clans they are claiming as part of their border also spills over into Ethiopia. Hence, they are not consistent in their claims. 

 

Anyway, the issue between Somaliland and Puntland is coming to a close either through the barrel of the gun or through recognising what is right. 

 

 

[Old_Observer]

10 hours ago, Suldaanka said:

 

I don't think there is any parallels  the border issue between Ethio & Eritrea to that of Somaliland and Somalia 

 

 

 

 

Suldaanka,

Not only parallel, its exactly same problem.

People of any race or creed survived all the past on some kind of institution. For Somalis the clan institution was the means of survival. When the clan became to big to manage then sub-clan became next institution. Kinship the most important. If we separate a village or two from kinship following colonial borders, we are only following the colonialists for a never ending conflict.

I know its opening a new can trying to negotiate borders, but there is always exceptions.

 

What if the threat Puntland faces from terror and neighboring regions is gone tomorrow and Puntland starts settling scores, do you think you will have the same logic then. Wealth and force are always temporary. It only took starving Ethiopia 2 years to put its house in order and not only kick out Eritrea, but force Eritrea to call Clinton at 2:00AM to beg him to tell the Ethiopians to stop. Never threat any thing that outlasts empires, like blood kinship.

 

The problems as I see them are same. From what I heard the Irob have 1 town and 3 villages that are in Eritrea, according map and they did not rest. Even though the Irob are only about 70,000, but very influential in Tigray, and even in Addis Ababa. The one or two villages that you might consider small this time can affect the rest of your plans.

[maakhiri1]

OO, another example is between SOMALIA and Ethiopia, the border is 100%unfortunate, dividing brothers and sisters, families, or the Issa clan  living between SOMALIA and Djibouti, or SOMALIS living between Kenya and SOMALIA.

 

The whole thing was an exercise to divide somalis, to weaken them by colonials, SOMALIS have been the most feared and tough people, and would dominate AFRICA, if they were all together, instead they been divided, and finally  SOMALIS themselves fall  into their biggest weakness, achilles hills, tribal warefare.

 

It is also true that all the areas most SOMALIS live now, they expanded to, and taken over, SOMALIS maybe getting reverse expansion from OROMO, but we have been chasing these people for 100s of years, and we will in the future.

 

 

[Old_Observer]

maakhiri1,

Absolutely. Until the 19-20 century the Somali was always able to get even or do more. Then the Somali had instirutions, which as you said were the first ones to be dismantled. I am not sure how it happened, but every Somali clan and sub-clans is represented in Ethiopia, while there is one or two in other countries.

 

The only ones the Somali had difficulty getting even or do more seem to be the Afar, no wonder the Somali and Afar are the same in everything except language. The Oromo went everywhere except Afar and Tigray. The Somali of course they were running away from, but now coming back with various methods.

Suldaanka,

Don't underestimate the power of villages. Some villages in history have brought down empires. What is done by agreement and convincing, no matter how long it takes, will last much longer. What is brought by war is easy to undo when situation changes.