Secessionists' negative propaganda against federal states

[Illyria]

Really, that is your comeback.

There you go with you xaar walwaal matag. re-read and come up with an iota of explanation in the trend discussed. if not, take a bow and make an exit.

 

Oodweyne;941429 wrote:

Xiinfaniin,

There was no questions of even being worthy of a toddlers nightly dribble on their pillows. Hence I do not know about you, but as a principles I don't encourage others to detain us with their toddlers nightly soaking drama of their pillows.

[xiinfaniin]

Oodweyne,

 

The question is why our separatists brothers are so obsessed with federalism and federal states? Why are they so fond to talk about Jubbaland and Puntland? The poster has made an excellent observation about this trend. The questions are asked in a very civil way. Number of separatists brothers has shown up in the post, only to go on a tangent, and when subjected to Illyria's rigorous and unforgiving queries, they either exited or in the case of Xaaji Habaar started farting about Youtube clips

 

You have it in you awoowe, so can you be the first taker of Illyria's question?

[xiinfaniin]

Oodweyne,

 

Your analogy would have been quite fitting if this wasn't a trend- we are not talking about the usual one liners or a passing commentary here and there. We are talking about a pattern. It is bordering obsession. At times , it comes across as though our brothers in the North stopped reading Somaliland news , and read only news portals that heavily report on Southern matters.

 

So it is not an empty argument- but it is tricky one as it requires a deep soul searching and reexamination

[Illyria]

Xiin,

You would think it is a simple question, but no, the secessionists are khiyaal ku nool, and that is asking too much of them to live in the real world, and come out of the cage they surrounded themselves in the triangle. And instead of debating the message, they resort what they do best. go after the person, but guess what. I believe eye for an eye.

[Carafaat]

The Pirates must be getting desperate when they send their top shot lawyer to debate federalism with Somalilanders of all people.

 

Find below one the many articles written by Somali intellectuals against this curse of clan federalism.

 

 

Clan federalism tears Somalia apart – By Mohamud M. Uluso

 

Clan politics, rivalry and hatred have ruined the social bond, moral principles and trust among Somalis who share common language, culture, territory, history, and religion. Now, three political manifestations -secession, clan based federalism and unitary decentralized political system- divide them and are obstacle to the recovery of the lost nation of Somalia.

 

The Provisional Constitution (PC) rejects secession, suggests voluntary federalism of regions while it establishes a unitary democratic central government. Respect of human rights, political and civil rights for all citizens, free market economic system, political pluralism, and promotion of peace constitute the basic foundation of the new constitution. The US diplomatic recognition of the government of Somalia gives impetus to the implementation of these goals and offers space and encouragement for internal unity and dialogue.

 

Therefore, the people of Somalia led by their farsighted and legitimate leaders have the responsibility to engage a national dialogue that aims to respond to the sentiments and anxieties underlying the three political manifestations so that strong Somalia can bargain with the International Community. In his 1963 book on Somali nationalism, Saadia Touval wrote, “

 

Somali nationalism stems from a feeling of national consciousness in the sense of “we” as opposed to “they” which has existed among the Somalis for many centuries. It was nurtured by tribal genealogies and traditions, by the Islamic religious ties, and by conflicts with foreign people.” This kind of exceptional Somali nationalism is now needed more than ever. Bad faith political negotiations fail Somalia.

 

Today’s acrimonious relation among Somalis is in full public display. Late Said Osman Kenedid captured this sad situation when he said in his book “xusuusqor”, a Somali becomes foe of the other when clan diversity is discovered. This approximates the present social breakdown.

 

Clan federalism worsens the situation and tears Somalia apart. It’s an overstatement or wrong to claim that the PC has created a federal government for Somalia. Yes, article 1(1) stipulates the establishment of the Federal Republic of Somalia (FG). The stakeholders of this FG are the 4.5 clans represented by the 275 members of the Federal Parliament (FP) and not by Federal Member States (FMS), Ahlu Sunna Wal Jama, Ras Kamboni or other factions.

 

In accordance with articles 48 and 49 of the PC, the FP must enact a law establishing the parameters and conditions to be used for the establishment of FMS and appoint a commission that will study the issue. The findings of the commission will determine the options. Article 49 (6) sets only one parameter: The voluntary merger of two or more regions based on the 1991 boundaries can form a FMS. In the interim, FG will represent the country and administer the regions and districts.

 

Clan-based federalism is against many articles of the PC. For example it is against article 8 on the people and citizenship; Article 11 concerning equality of all citizens and prohibition of clan based discrimination; Article 21 on the freedom of movement and residence; Article 46 which prescribes that the power of self-governance begins and ends with the people. Article 142 does not recognize in name the existing FMSs and harms national interest.

 

To appreciate the concept of federalism in Somalia, a review of the different views, motivations and perceptions propounded by Dighil and Mirifle and ***** ***** (Puntland) for their resolute support of federalism is helpful. In 1991, some politicians suggested a federal system between the two territories united on July 1, 1960.

 

Hizbia Dighil and Mirifle (HDM) Party of “Dighil and Mirifle clan” proposed in 1947 a clan-based federal system later debated in 1957 and rejected by the parliament. In his paper titled “the emergence and role of political parties in the inter-river region (1989),” Prof Mohamed H. Mukhtar noted that HDM divided the Somali Italian territory into two regions: North of the Shabelle River and South of it. Sheikh Abdullahi Sheikh Mohamed (Bogodi), founder of HDM told the Four Power Commission sent to Somalia in 1947 the following:

 

My people are those who behave themselves better than others. We always prevent other people from making trouble or robbing. .. The Other people who are not Dighil and Mirifle, they may live and stay with us, but we want them behind us recognizing the land as belonging to us and not to them.

 

One of the three things the founder requested the Commission was that “the country in which Dighil and Mirifle live always to be regarded as belonging to them and if the government who live with them wish anything from them they want the government to be discussed with them.”

 

As a result, HDM federalism was for land ownership and intended to take place between Dighil and Mirifle clan and the rest. No significant power was allowed to the central Government.

 

In May 1998, sub clan ***** ***** decided to form a “Puntland State” composed of five regions –Mudug, Nugal, Bari, Sol and Sanag- and to make “clan federalism” the national form of government. On October 9, 2010, Mr. Mohamed Abshir Waldo published a paper on

 

Federalism: Birth of Puntland in which he put forward three reasons why Puntland decided to predetermine a federal system for Somalia. They are: (1) to heal and overcome the fear, hatred and distrust of the bloody civil war; (2) To take a middle solution between an autocratic, centralized system of government -which is an imaginary future government, and the outright secession of Somaliland. Sanag and Sol regions are claimed by Somaliland; 3. To emphasize district level socio economic development.

 

Residents in Puntland became divided into two categories: Puntland citizens and refugees. There was no economic, social political and legal study about the feasibility of a federal system for Somalia or preliminary discussion among Somalis. Mr. Waldo stressed that “

 

It [the decision] was not borne out of emotion, clan sentimentalism or as resentment resulting from the clan cleansing massacre of thousands of people originating from the current Puntland regions that took place in what is now known as South-Central Somalia (SCS) mainly in Mogadishu.”

 

Puntland State is now in confrontation with FG over the formation of Jubbaland State which will comprise three regions-Lower Jubba, Middle Jubba and Gedo and will be under the rule of *****, ******, and ******* as the majority group out of 38 clans in the area.

 

As consequence, Bay, Bakol and Lower Shabelle regions will be under Dighil and Mirifle rule. Middle Shabelle, Hiran, and Galgudud regions will be under ****** rule. Togdher, North West, and Awdal regions will be under **** rule. In consideration of clan imagination, Mogadishu, the capital and seat of FG will be under sub-clan Abgal-********** rule. To revive HDM federalism, a preparatory conference for a new State of six regions-Bay, Bakol, Gedo, Lower Jubba, Middle Jubba and Lower Shabelle is underway in Baidoa, Bay region.

 

Puntland federalism aims to deal with past and future “clan cleansing” and to control the central power if ever emerges. In Somalia, “clan cleansing” takes place every day as long as clans fight and people leave their homes for new destinations. It happened different parts of the country.

 

Somalia clan federalism resembles the clan division suggested by President Yuweri K. Museveni of Uganda in his

 

letter dated July 15, 2009 for handling the Banyoro political grievance against Bafuruki in Banyuro region. Banyoro are considered an indigenous (natives) clan, while Bafuruki (migrants/settlers) – a derogatory word- are Ugandan citizens whose ancestral land is not Banyuro region even if they they were born in it. The President proposed clan land ownership and ring-fencing the positions of local councils and Member of Parliament for the indigenous (native) Banyoro clan. This has raised firestorm inside and outside Uganda because it was seen as tribalism, unpatriotic and unconstitutional and later President Museveni backtracked.

 

The signs of many problems associated with clan federalism like violent minority dissent within are now visible in Puntland. In fact, clan federalism rather than solving the problems of bad governance expands them. Only Ethiopia, Nigeria, and South Africa practice clan based federalism in the African continent. A comparative study carried out in 2012 shows that African federalism fails for at least nine causes like a lack of commitment to democratic values and obstruction of the central government authority.

 

In the gloomy prospect for Somalia’s future, the observations of Saadia Touval about Somali nationalism provide pride and hope. He testified that Somali leaders were always striving to eradicate “political tribalism” because it was and still is detrimental to national harmony. In 1958, political parties with clan names were banned. He also stated that Somali leaders (northerners) gave up their privileged positions for the sake of realizing the broader nationalist goals of unifying the British and Italian territories in 1960. These kinds of patriotism are deeply rooted in the Somali culture and could re-emergence at the right moment like today.

 

Mr. Mohamud M. Uluso

mohamuduluso@gmail.com

 

[Illyria]

I am familiar with Culusow's argument, but yours I am not.

See if you can dig deep to explain away your fascination with federal states.

 

Carafaat;941574 wrote:

The Pirates must be getting desperate when they send their top shot lawyer to debate federalism with Somalilanders of all people.

Find below one the many articles written by Somali intellectuals against this curse of clan federalism.

[Carafaat]

Well if you know Culusoow and his arguments against federalism, then why pretend HAG folks dont have an argument against clan federalism?

 

Or is this the latest pirate abduction strategy, debate Somalilanders on federalism and ignore/silence the arguments of all other Somalis?

[Illyria]

It is your lots' obsession I am questioning, so try for once to stand for what you breach without intertwining yourself with others.

[Carafaat]

What is however troubling is how HAG fans, who are supposedly unionists are on the same bandwagon without realising the game being played. I understand they are a bit slow when it comes to politics, but will it be too late by the time they wake up to realise the game?

This is your thread, these are your own words, and this is your own statement regarding other people being played by others. You are questioning the opinion of others by saying they are followers and are being played. Is this how all pirates see Somalis and Somalia? Again I suggest you go read or listen to other Somalis and their vieuws on clan federalism as well. I can post more articles, opinions of Somalis as well. Maybe you will learn a thing or two. But I suggest you are not interesting in that are you?

 

P.S. If you are interested in my vieuws regarding federalism, just check one of the many threads I argumented against clan federalism since I have become member of this board.

[Illyria]

Horaa loo yiri Hashu maankay gadaye ma mansaar bay liqday. It is impossible to get you to stick with one thing at a time and discuss it in a rationale way.

[Carafaat]

Somali wexe horey u tiri: "Hadal aan fiiro loo dhihin iyo caano aan fiiqsi loo dhamin feerahey wax yeelaan". Now coming back to your argument, Federalism is opposed by Somalilanders and the rest of Somalis are just followers who dont have an own opinion or mind for themselves.

 

This kind of an argument shows the dédain you have for the Somali people, this kind of speech is something hurting your argument for federalism and at the same time insulting a majority of the Somalis opposing this travesty called federalism.

 

qoraalkaga u fiirso hada kadib, waa iga talo.

[uchi]

While we are asking questions, Carafaat, what happen to your united Somalia stance? when did you lose your way?

[Carafaat]

Uchi, my stance on the unity has not changed. The same goes for my position against Clan federalism.

[burahadeer]

Illyria;941185 wrote:

 

What is however troubling is how HAG fans, who are supposedly unionists are on the same bandwagon without realising the game being played. I understand they are a bit slow when it comes to politics, but will it be too late by the time they wake up to realise the game?

 

Genuine pro-unionists, whether in favour of federalism or not should be on the lookout, and beware of the trap being laid.

 

Cos neither HAG fans nor any otha somali trusts you no matter how loud you plead for somaliweyn.We all gave up on you due to your continous treachery & back stabing.

Interesting to see someone you least expect of fighting incessently for union cause:rolleyes:

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

if you just look at the Forum all the HAG members are opposed to clan federalism Oba Abwaan Malistar Metta, now are you saying they were brainwashed if you want to insult the HAG members just do so. But why are you associating Somalilanders with all of this. They are just taking part of these discussions on these boards. Meesha waxa ka so hadhay blease hanaga hadlina blease hana sheegina blease hanaso qaadina blease blease hala baroorto sidi habar dhalay weyday. The point of the video was about pointing out hassan sheikh maxamuuds policies towards clan federalism since he is the President if we go by what the President does than that is a good thing. Hassan sheikh Maxamuud clearly stated that federalism is not about 2 qabil oo isu tagay he said that when he was in England.