Arms Embargo should only be Lifted When Government Creates Viable National Army, Recruited from All

[xiinfaniin]

^^Abwaan noo fur post aan kaga hadalno dhaca guryaha, iyo gaandhariyaasha ingiriiska bartay. Halkaan waxbaa laysa fahansiinayaa awoowe.

[xiinfaniin]

malistar2012;920124 wrote:

We had reconciliation for decade starting 2000 – 2012 , for more than 12 years Somali factions , clan leaders gathered around to establish a viable, competent and inclusive national Government.

 

The processes ended up direct presidential elections were held in Somalia on 10 September 2012. The newly-appointed Federal Parliament elected Hassan Sheikh Mohamud as the president of Somalia .

Here we have Somali FM who hells from Somaliland advocating for lifting of Arms Embargo.

It is the best interest in terms of security and the government confidence to lift the arms embargo.

It will allow the government to exercise Authority over Somali territories, without that the government cannot win over internal spoilers.

Some truth there ...but the political reconciliation and election of Hassan has not translated into government establishing authority over all Somali territories. What is the government's plan for instance to recruit from regions it has no authority (practically speaking)?

[malistar2012]

With time and effort the government plan is to exercise authority over all Somali land ( defiant border)

What is the government's plan for instance to recruit from regions it has no authority (practically speaking)?

There are 2 regions namely Puntland and Somaliland where by the Government has no authority over. Other than 2 regions mentioned the government has influence or direct authority over Somali territories.

Puntland is well represented in the Federal government , I don’t see the problem to why the Puntland Arm force cannot be incorporated with newly trained Somali Arm force,Puntland soldiers will get training they need.

Arm Force will be one, no region or clan will be armed …… Army will be mixed in every level and regions.

Time for mistrust is over once we get strong Somali national army. We cannot effort to miss this opportunity.

 

 

[Baashi]

Af laba daan leh baan ileyn muranka deynayn e!

 

Inna Abdulle Hassan was right when he coined this famous stanza taken from one of his memorable poems.

 

NG, awoowe details are important. They are not irrelevant. As they say the devil is in the details. The issues you thought of as being trivial have the potential to make or break the political settlement after a promising start. Small things in policy and schemes or even in engineering design, if overlooked, can cause serious problems later on. Awoowe it is often details like the ones you seem to dismiss that often prolong a task or make it difficult or challenging.

 

Government made its move. It’s demanding lifting of arms embargo. The author of the article, Xiin, Rahima and I support the move and sympathize with the government as it has to address huge, monumental security challenges. The criticism stems from numerous unfinished businesses that I think government should give the utmost priority. Security forces (police), securing government premises, reconciling different interpretation of provisional federal constitution, readiness, recruitment policies, national bases, and on and on should be front and center of the government’s effort.

 

True there are political forces (supported by clans) who mistrust government in Mogadishu (for clannish reasons) that will not support it if they suspect their interested are not taken into account. These clan-based political forces were vocal before this government made demands relating to arms embargo and they will continue to be vocal every step of the way. That’s given. I am at loss where you are going with this obvious reality that everyone in the forum seems to acknowledge.

 

As to this clan influence stuff you are peddling from post to post let me say this one more time at the this risk of sounding like a broken record YES clan is strong undercurrent of the majority of political activities in both Somalia and Diaspora (the only exception I can think of is nationalism and Political Islam -- both political stripes do exist). Agreed 110%! And I would add any rational and informed Somali who argue with you on that point does not have facts on his/her side.

 

Now, it is one thing to say the clan is a major factor in Somali politics. It’s quite another thing to stretch that factual nugget into a litmus test for all and every statements folks made on current events. I see you are throwing yourself in Habar vs. Habar politics and declaring your political allegiance on that basis. That’s your prerogative. But I don’t think you should bully Rahima or other nationalist or Islamist who espouses different understanding that transcends clan politics into following suit or tell her to declare allegience to her clan first before she could share her opinion on political issues of the day.

 

Accusations, finger pointing and impugning others intentions does not substitute for discussion awoowe

.

Xiin don’t deal with one liner brigade. They are not here to discuss issues. Folks like Abwaan (still waiting a report from him ) and others of similar mold excel accusing others but have difficulty in penning coherent and articulate thought silent readers of SOL could follow and understand.

 

I guess we made a good run on this and got a lot of mileage out of it.

[Baashi]

malistar2012;920179 wrote:

With time and effort the government plan is to exercise authority over all Somali land ( defiant border)

What is the government's plan for instance to recruit from regions it has no authority (practically speaking)?

There are 2 regions namely Puntland and Somaliland where by the Government has no authority over. Other than 2 regions mentioned the government has influence or direct authority over Somali territories.

Puntland is well represented in the Federal government , I don’t see the problem to why the Puntland Arm force cannot be incorporated with newly trained Somali Arm force,Puntland soldiers will get training they need.

Arm Force will be one, no region or clan will be armed …… Army will be mixed in every level and regions.

Time for mistrust is over once we get strong Somali national army. We cannot effort to miss this opportunity.

 

 

Awoowe government has no authority over any region yet. It has the support of ordinary people everywhere. Parliament is not functional yet. The cabinet meets in a hotel. Political institutions of the state have yet to be resurrected. All major ministerial institutions, judiciary, national defense, regulatory agencies, etc are not functional. It’s not the government’s fault as this is what it inherited. Making all these institutions functional and effective will need manpower, expertise, and money. The reconstruction will take time. And so forth. But make no mistake it needs security and political space first.

 

What Hassan’s government is planning to do is build capacity to exercise authority over all 18 Somali provinces (pre-civil war political geography). Bay, Bakool, Gedo, Jubas, Shabelles and Central provinces are clan enclaves with residual AS forces. It’s up against goliath – complete destruction of infrastructure (all basic social services are absent and the private owned business providing minimal serfaces are unregulated), never-ending clannish tug war, regional interferences, demands from world powers zeroing in AS type rebels and top of that it is broke and lives on hand outs. Ain’t that something! Huge challenge is understatement. This is some task baba.

 

Puntland (is in political transition) and Somaliland (even though Silanyo is sympathetic for reconstituting Somali state but on his terms) are not helping and they are demanding a cut for every handout whilst keeping all port revenues for their constituents.

 

There is little room for mistake. Government needs to get every step right from the get-go or it will be consumed taking out fires!

[malistar2012]

Sxb colonial powers ruled Somalia with less man power and resources. Somali national army needs reform and leader.

Since we had reconciliation for 12 years , I believe the government can reconcile regional arm force across country namely from puntland to xamar . Organise meeting in the capital inviting puntland , Galmudug , Raskamboni and ahlu sunna arm force commanders and create chain of command .

Since there are no argument of legitimize of this government and the parliament regional administration are ought hand over their arm force under the federal institution.

[Abwaan]

xiinfaniin;920137 wrote:

^^Abwaan noo fur post aan kaga hadalno dhaca guryaha, iyo gaandhariyaasha ingiriiska bartay. Halkaan waxbaa laysa fahansiinayaa awoowe.

xiin, with all due respect I don't think I have the time to do some fadhi-ku-dirir.

[Mario B]

NGONGE;920013 wrote:

Sayid, I am not. I used to be an Carab who did not know or care about any of it but not anymore saaxib. I say clan is everything and only support SL for clan reasons. It is the only way for anyone to have peace in Somalia.

You can support your clan and support the federal government, the two are not mutual exlusive, but don't you think it's all more noble to promote political and economic justice for all clans of Somalia instead of fighting over a bigger share of the pie when there are some who are going without? Plus a non zero-sum model is more conducive for long term peace [Here I'm assuming that you're not some sheep that follows whatever edict your clan proclaims.]

 

You are part of a failed state, one of the reason is qabyalaad,no one is denying that, what i don't understand is how more of 'clan is everything' is going to extricate us out of our current conflict/disagreement?

 

P.s And on the 'pie issue', I believe we can grow our pie, I believe as a people we haven't fufillied our potential economically. No people, or nation has got richer from aid or loans. We need to start tilling, rearing and fishing like we have never done before. And from our savings we can industrialiaze ourselves out of poverty.

[Taleexi]

Sayid*Somal;920011 wrote:

^^And you two doctors above are immunised from this 'disease'?

Indeed, FYI they are saints!

[Malika]

Ngonge, wanted to share this with you - baal aan maskaxda kaa shaqeysino..

 

"The last 20 years of Somalia have shown the dangers of ethnic competition and underscore the importance of building nations around ideas rather than clan identities." By Calestous Juma -International development professor at Harvard University

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20465752

 

Just a year or two ago, you and your guru were singing from the same hymms - due to 'clan is everything politics' waad aragtee sidhaa iisuu gashaan beriyahaan....

[SayidSomal]

Baashi;920189 wrote:

Af laba daan leh baan ileyn muranka deynayn e!

 

Inna Abdulle Hassan was right when he coined this famous stanza taken from one of his memorable poems.

 

NG, awoowe details are important. They are not irrelevant. As they say the devil is in the details. The issues you thought of as being trivial have the potential to make or break the political settlement after a promising start. Small things in policy and schemes or even in engineering design, if overlooked, can cause serious problems later on. Awoowe it is often details like the ones you seem to dismiss that often prolong a task or make it difficult or challenging.

 

Government made its move. It’s demanding lifting of arms embargo. The author of the article, Xiin, Rahima and I support the move and sympathize with the government as it has to address huge, monumental security challenges. The criticism stems from numerous unfinished businesses that I think government should give the utmost priority. Security forces (police), securing government premises, reconciling different interpretation of provisional federal constitution, readiness, recruitment policies, national bases, and on and on should be front and center of the government’s effort.

 

True there are political forces (supported by clans) who mistrust government in Mogadishu (for clannish reasons) that will not support it if they suspect their interested are not taken into account. These clan-based political forces were vocal before this government made demands relating to arms embargo and they will continue to be vocal every step of the way. That’s given. I am at loss where you are going with this obvious reality that everyone in the forum seems to acknowledge.

 

As to this clan influence stuff you are peddling from post to post let me say this one more time at the this risk of sounding like a broken record YES clan is strong undercurrent of the majority of political activities in both Somalia and Diaspora (the only exception I can think of is nationalism and Political Islam -- both political stripes do exist). Agreed 110%! And I would add any rational and informed Somali who argue with you on that point does not have facts on his/her side.

 

Now, it is one thing to say the clan is a major factor in Somali politics. It’s quite another thing to stretch that factual nugget into a litmus test for all and every statements folks made on current events. I see you are throwing yourself in Habar vs. Habar politics and declaring your political allegiance on that basis. That’s your prerogative. But I don’t think you should bully Rahima or other nationalist or Islamist who espouses different understanding that transcends clan politics into following suit or tell her to declare allegience to her clan first before she could share her opinion on political issues of the day.

 

Accusations, finger pointing and impugning others intentions does not substitute for discussion awoowe

.

Xiin don’t deal with one liner brigade. They are not here to discuss issues. Folks like Abwaan (still waiting a report from him

) and others of similar mold excel accusing others but have difficulty in penning coherent and articulate thought silent readers of SOL could follow and understand.

 

I guess we made a good run on this and got a lot of mileage out of it.

Nimanyahow af laba daan leh baan, muranka deynayne

Daleelaha cidlaa lagama shubo, hadal daleeleede

Markii laduqayay Xiinfaniin wuxuu, doonayuu helaye!!

[NGONGE]

Malika;920266 wrote:

Ngonge, wanted to share this with you - baal aan maskaxda kaa shaqeysino..

 

"The last 20 years of Somalia have shown the dangers of ethnic competition and underscore the importance of building nations around ideas rather than clan identities." By Calestous Juma -International development professor at Harvard University

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20465752

 

 

Just a year or two ago, you and your guru were singing from the same hymms - due to 'clan is everything politics' waad aragtee sidhaa iisuu gashaan beriyahaan....

That's where we disagree, Malika. I believe that what the professor wrote above to be nothing but stuff and nonsense when it comes to the Somali problem. In those twenty years that you and he mention, you and many of those that support moving away from clan politics have not managed to move the debate one single inch forward and the clan politics still looms large over anything related to Somali politics.

 

Do I think it's not possible to move away from clan politics? No, I don't. However, I believe that the only way for people to do that is if the truth is told. Myself and the guru are disagreeing today but our disagreement takes place within the walls of SL. He is in political opposition to the ruling party today but neither he nor his clan are playing that zero sum game that the professor is talking about (they don't want to destroy the SL process or remove Siilaanyo by force). And, more importantly, they are bringing their clannish opposition out in the open (in the same way that Siilaanyo did when the was a member of the opposition).It is that honesty of discourse that is missing from Somalia's politics and has been its biggest obstacle for the past twenty years.

 

It is great to have these noble ideas and aims but you still have to find a way to make them work in practice. To do so, you have to tackle the clan jinni first; to tackle it, you have to admit its existance first. I fear that most of those disparging the clan politics never (really) admit the problem itself and are forever veiwing it as something that which will go away if it were ignored. I don't think that's true, Malika. Somalia will only be fully fixed when people start working with each, they'll only work with each other when they accept their clan differences and make compromises. They recently did (in all those meetings for the constitution and the election of president). They have to carry on doing so without the sideways talk of political parties and other far off dreams. Wax fahan.

[Haatu]

I see this is still going one.

 

Xiin, what's your position now awoowe? Have the other "elders" talked some sense into you?

[xiinfaniin]

^^Sidii inuu xiin kula guursaday baad maantoo dhan masayrsantahay ninyahow. What gives?

[Haatu]

xiinfaniin;920360 wrote:

^^Sidii inuu xiin kula guursaday baad maantoo dhan masayrsantahay ninyahow. What gives?

Ma wax laga masayro baa jiraa?