A third way for Somaliland and Somalia

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Che -Guevara;910234 wrote:

Nagadaa Xaaji, this 'new generation' thinks Somalis have hooves for feet and horns on their head lool

 

:D:D

[Carafaat]

Taleexi;910197 wrote:

If every clan can have its own state is the bitter bill that we Somalis need to manage to swallow; if else, Somalia shall remain one country. No one clan will ever be able determining another clan's destiny thus, SL is a clan project that has almost a zero chance of securing an international recognition with the consideration of all the empirical facts on the ground. There are many methods of addressing ethnic conflicts where mutual trust of the fractured societies can be restored, should we decide to live together, perhaps those models could be useful.

Which ethnic conflict?

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

khatumo versus the SNM wear wolves

[Carafaat]

Rahima;910187 wrote:

Couldn't agree more but do you actually think that this can be achieved? When the young child who has never laid eyes on the Horn is indoctrinated with distrust what hope is there?

 

My father was targeted by the Barre regime, personally targeted to the point that he was in hiding for some time- thanks to corruption though he fled Somalia on a government scholarship to further his studies in the UK,lol. That said though NORF i knew that it was the fault of a regime and not the average person who happens to share a lineage with the old man (AUN). My mother was in Gaalkacyo when it was bombed by the government, yet again i don't blame others, just the regime. Now i realise the situation was much worse in Hargeysa, in terms of the bombings but nonetheless very few were safe- hallmark of a dictatorship really. SL was not the only region that was neglected, many others were but what i can never understand is why is there this fixation by some to re-write history, to change it to a systematic targeting of only Somalilanders? How do we overcome that should be the primary question.

Maybe you should stop rewriting history yourself?

[Abu-Salman]

The basic truth is that Somalis in the South (oversimplification: how "South" is Garowe?) are not culturally dissimilar to us "Northerners" (again too simplistic a term as many from Las Anod consider Kismayo as home etc).

Another one is that, just as within the North, there is some mistrust but no real enmity at population level.

Now what really matters is how conflict could be minimised; if viewed through that lens, the re-incorporation of Sland is not a priority and dialogue (with the wishes of dissenting voices, within the North itself, at the core) is the only way forward.

 

I'd personally envision a solution a la Quebec as realistic and second best just like NORF; the issue of military or economic oppression adressed through clear rules and multi-layered safeguards (what is there to threaten since regional admins rule practically everything?), it is hard to imagine a regime in Xamar bombing again rebels capturing major cities (after all, the regime ordered aerial bombings only after Ethio armed SNM invaded the cities).

Once you got the issues of local self-rule enshrined in many ways, the grievances aired first by the SNM or many "Northerners" are satisfied and the obssesion for a full state again become redundant.

 

 

PS: Let's forget other considerations and focus on the practical side of some loose confederation (eg, in Quebec a French student pay minimal fees as the locals etc whereas those from next door Ottawa, the capital, are not considered local; the province sends delegations etc...);

is there any hidden threat that can't be adressed and is worth obssesing about, sacrificing for, within that context of almost unfettered sovereignity whether it be economic or legislative?

[Abu-Salman]

Oodweyne, to be frank I deeply care about my Northern home and people as we still reside there, I do however love deeply Southerners too in general and some even more than close family (maybe you should let bygones be bygones and visit the new Xamar with us ).

 

What I was wondering about is this anyway:

"Let's forget other considerations and focus on the practical side of some loose confederation (eg, in Quebec a French student pay minimal fees as the locals etc whereas those from next door Ottawa, the capital, are not considered local; the province sends delegations etc...);

is there any hidden threat that can't be adressed and is worth obssesing about, sacrificing for, within that context of almost unfettered sovereignity whether it be economic or legislative?"

 

 

PS we have the highest Sland ministers to visit us litterally at home so I'm not fully clueless though it is irrelevant vis-a-vis the question of why a full, formal state is worth obssesing about ...

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

How about giving Somaliland the chance to vote for independence like Quebec did they failed but give Somaliland the same chance. I am for a union a lose union call it what ever you want or a confederation as long as an official Exist referendum is given to the people of SL. And i think that's something Siilaanyo can sell to his people.

[DoctorKenney]

Xaaji Xunjuf;910094 wrote:

Doctor but still Somalia will basically survive and wont lose a big territory its not desperate in need of Somaliland in order to continue as a strong state. I also do not agree with you're assessment that Puntland has secessionist tendencies they never did they are more concerned about their federalism and to gain seats in the govt in Mogadishu. Doctor Puntlanders are very ambitious by nature and want always to be the leaders, so PL secession is meaningless. What about the gains though Somalia will have less people to share resources with it will have less dissatisfied citizens because unity with Somalia is like a prison for Somalilanders. I think the vast majority of Somalia's resources are in the south basically Somalia will not lose oil fields and fertile land like Sudan did. I have always said the Somaliand and Somalia case is the easiest to solve in Africa if we ignore the emotions on both sides. Its been 22 years now its either come to a solution or well the statusquo we are independent and we will not rest till we have a homeland for our people. And Mogadishu will say no you cannot leave and you will have action reaction. And before you know it the people in both SL and Somalia will be exhausted and have ill feeling towards each other why go that route. No one has a real solution i suggest to dissolve the union officially and set up an agreement economic integration movement of people and in the year 2113 re negotiate a confederacy system i think that can bring a solution to both Somaliland and Somalia.

 

The animosity Somalilanders have towards Somalia is alarming. I've spoken to dozens of people from "Somaliland" and I've heard countless rants from them about how "barbaric" Somalia is. And I understand that forcing Somaliland into a Union will cause further animosity between us as a people. They can't stand us, and it's sad to see that.

 

But what would you do? Think about the repercussions if Somaliland was given independence. What's stopping the people of Awdal, or the people of Sanaag from "seceding" from Somaliland and re-joining Somalia proper? Wouldn't you think that creating a framework with a decentralized Federal government to be the best solution to this issue? This would at least create some sort of compromise where Somalia stays united but the people of each region can run their own affairs and establish their own regional government.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

^^ That can be worked out since the people of Sanaag are not one clan but various clans and families living together these people lived together before colonialism and during colonialism and after independence and after Somaliland reclaimed its independence. In Sanaag there was a special conference held in 1993 hosted by the SL government at that time. And that's how people are living together today in peace and stability. We should know what clan or community has grievances before we can examine the core problem , there is no distrust between the people of Sanaag unlike in Kismayo where one predominant clan lives and people believe in the Somalia unity fought over that city since early 90s up to 2007. There was a war though in Sanaag in Somali there is a difference between Colaad iyo Nacayb. In the 80s there were wars several wars but that was colaad created and not nacayb seated.I would give the people who have some sort of grievances a special ear and work some sort of deal may it even be a autonomous status if it came to it. not just Sanaag but even berbera or any other region of SL. A decentralized system is perfect for Somaliland now we have a highly centralized regime hargeysa. Doctor in the 90s i honestly believed that there could be some sort of a union if both sides were honest but every year that passes by i see the chances declining whether recognition comes or not. Since 2007 i found out living together how we once did as brothers and sisters the past cant be reached any more. Just go to you tube and type in Somaliland 18 may parties and read the comments below between Somalilanders and non Somalilanders its almost frightening and most of these are kids are in their early 20s.

[N.O.R.F]

Oodweyne;910319 wrote:

^^^ Aah another one thinking that somaliland is for sale. It is pity they did not send you the memo of what somaliland is about before you have decided to spout off stuff others are much more clued about it than you.

 

In others words, let me assure you that the likes of president Silanyo will be back in London chilling out in his home after he was chased away from office by a teeming angry population before there are any takers of your sort of nonsense in somaliland.

 

But I guess since democracy is the right to spout off gibberish to one's heart content, then I guess you are entitled to take comfort from the sort of stuff our friend Norf has been parading around in here.

 

So you believe that the current situation is unfavourable to Somaliland? A least we agree on something. Now, what would be the way towards independence? At least give your take on the next steps instead of just opposing our views.

[Abu-Salman]

We have to admit "Northerners" in Borama and other places in the "North" are more than hesitant about formal secession even before formal campaigning or propaganda allowed for both sides.

Likewise, accusing any dissident voice of "naivety" or "treason" as if some clear sacred rule has been questioned do lower the level of the debate.

 

The example of the UAE or Quebec (which includes only totally French enclaves) are just proves that alternatives exist and deserve to be seriously explored so as to stop constant conflict and diversion of resources as well as energy;

life is indeed too short to obsess about a dogmatic position for the sake of it when urgent development and trade need to be quickstarted.

 

In that light, dogmatic secessionism that differ little if at all practically from a loose confederation model, is only prolonging the needless tremendous suffering indissociable from the current state of permanent tension and distraction.

[Tillamook]

So far from what I have gleaned from this thread, it seems Norf, Abu Salma and others are willing to face the realities on the ground in Somalia whilst Xaaji and Oodweyene remain the last of a dying breed. I say, good riddance hombres!

[oba hiloowlow]

waar dadkaan maxaa lo baryayaa let them believe in their fairytale LaLa land

[Rahima]

Carafaat;910255 wrote:

Maybe you should stop rewriting history yourself?

What did you want me to write? That Hargeysa was the only city neglected by previous governments? And that the SL people were the only victims? Is that the correct version?

 

Norf,

 

Good point but both sides have to adopt a give and take approach and we must all forgive each other.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Lol after afew pages we still havent agreed so far one person from somalia said let the people. Of somaliland decide their own future rahima. The rest is still against i hope the real talks. Will not go like this lol

 

 

Sometimes i think the sl and somalia issue is the easiest to solve since somalia will not lose anything meaningful

And a few min later i thinks its harder than the palestinian israeli conflict.