Why does A Muslim have to Apologize or be held accountable for...

[Caano Geel]

NG

too many words man, some of us are barely literate, summarise ... plleeeeaaaasssseeeee

[Cara.]

I thought it was one of Ngonge's more readable posts actually.

[Caano Geel]

admitedly u're right

however i find it hard to hold more than 100 words in my brain at once - without undue strain. so please be kind to me and my brain.

[NGONGE]

^^^ Four wrods: I agree with you.

[Salafi_Online]

As-salamu alaykum

 

 

With all due fairness I dont know what Ummah you guys are talking about. The salafies are doing just fine alhamdulillah.

[Khayr]

Salamz,

 

Originally posted by Honesita:

It is actually sad to say that the Muslims are bad but the reality is that WE ARE BAD...!! I could not have agreed more with what Castro said....it is really wise when we acknowledge our own problems, admit that we have problems and dont over exagerate in our greatness...!! The Muslim Ummah is NOT great, it is Islam that is great and perfect...!! Islam is invulnerable and Muslims are vulnerable...!!

It is wise to ACKNOWLEDGE our Problems (proper time and place, that doesn't mean ALL THE TIME 24/7), laakin we don't have to REPEATEDLY, over and over and over again, day after day, HUMULIATE OURSELVES infront of NONMUSLIMS.

 

HOLD UP YOUR HEAD HIGH as a MUSLIM, inshallah.

 

The Muslim Ummah is NOT great, it is Islam that is great and perfect...!! Islam is invulnerable and Muslims are vulnerable...!!

This is the message that is DRILLED in our HEADS...the Ummah is NOT GREAT, the PROBLEM WITH MUSLIMS, Muslims don't do enough and the list NEVER endsss......

 

 

The FOCUS is on the NEGATIVE sooo much so that muslims when engaging in a debate with a nonmuslim, almost ALWAYS end up APOLOGIZING for being a MUSLIM (Yes, I'm sorry...Yes, You are right, Muslims have alot of problems,...Yes, we as muslims have to acknowledge our mistakes etc.)...

 

Why be DEFENSIVE ALL THE TIME?

 

SubhanAllah, your a member of KhayruKhalqu Allah's UMMAH, Nabi Muhammed

(sallahu caliyhe wasilm), say Alhamdulillah and STAND TALL.

 

Callypso said:

 

They don't, but Muslims wouldn't be happy to know that one white Westerner has a negative perception of Islam. Muslims care a great deal about how possible converts view them; many are more concerned about how they look to outsiders than how they conduct themselves with fellow Muslims.

100 lies amidst one truth....

 

I agree and I personally do my part as a muslim inshallah and let my character speak more volumes, just follow the various sunnans(prophetic traditions/practices) and inshallah just be true to my deen.

 

Callypso said:

By the way, why does all of Denmark have to apologize for the actions of a single Danish tabloid? Why is the maker of a cream cheese spread being held responsible for the decision made by the editor of Jyllands-Posten?

B/C as a nation, they shoWED their arrogance and hide behind 'freedom of expression' to propogate their hate for islam and muslims.

 

As to the maker of the cream cheese, he supports Denmark and if that company doesn't lobby the government to get the EDITOR fired (theY got the money and the power to do so) and just supports their government's actions, then they should be boycotted. Afterall, they make their money from Muslims too.

 

Callypso,

I don't see you asking about why the Americans put an embargo on Iranians for wanting an islamic state, why iraqi kids were starved to death b/c of american lead boycotts (100,000's of children, old people). How come you dont' FIRE AWAY and BLAME OTHERS?

 

As for Americans, some think Bush and co are right and so don't think they have anything to apologize for; some feel it's wrong, but don't care what non-Americans think of them; and some think Bush is wrong and do go out of their way to apologize to others. If you live in America, you've surely met all three kinds.

So is it ok for a Muslim then to include in almost every conversation they have with an americann, that an APOLOGY should be made for AMERICANSS massacring kids in Falluja in Nov./dec. 2004? Or killing Afghani people from a Tomcat f-14 high up in the sky, like it was a video game? etc...

 

Also, why do Americans BLAME BUSH for everything, last time i recall, a whole lot of americans continue to sign up WILLINGLY to join the ARMY. Bush didn't win with a 1000 votes, rather millions supported him.

Also, when its time to rescue an American, they all become united as Americans and are more then willing to support that rescue by ANY means NEcessary(even if it includes killing children, innocent people. To them, they are incidentals.)

 

See the DOUBLE STANDARDS that the people use when it comes to MUSLIMS. The muslim has to apologize for everything related to Muslims and Islam-Tell me why again they have to do that??? :rolleyes:

 

 

Why does A Muslim have to Apologize or be held accountable for whatever happens in the muslim world?

[juba]

Khayr you seem to have a problem with reality. Everytime someone presents a fact of the ummah you go on the defensive!

 

IF WE DON'T LOOK AT THE PROBLEMS OF THE UMMA CONSTANTLY AND DISCUSS THEM HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO FIX THEM???

 

believe it or not the Umma is far from perfect and instead of avoiding the situation we should meet it head on.

[-Lily-]

^^^ Some of the points Khayr made are facts and do present a double standard on our parts. Eg. the boycotting on Iraqi products and what it has done do our Muslim borthers& siters in Iraq for decade. We should use our buying power seriously.

 

Having said that, the problem is within the Muslim world (not Islam), why are Muslims stabbing other Muslims in the back? The problems with non-believers are age old, the Muslims of the past dealt with them because they were united and a force to be reckoned with. Today that unity is missing, because we take non-believers as protectors, when the Quran specifically told us not to take them as protectors because they will only side against us.

 

Allah guide us, what else can I say?

[Khayr]

Originally posted by WaTerLily:

^^^ Some of the points Khayr made are facts and do present a double standard on our parts. Eg. the boycotting on Iraqi products and what it has done do our Muslim borthers& siters in Iraq for decade. We should use our buying power seriously.

 

Having said that, the problem is within the Muslim world (not Islam), why are Muslims stabbing other Muslims in the back? The problems with non-believers are age old, the Muslims of the past dealt with them because they were united and a force to be reckoned with. Today that unity is missing, because we take non-believers as protectors, when the Quran specifically told us not to take them as protectors because they will only side against us.

 

Allah guide us, what else can I say?

I agree with you and Ameen to that du'a.

 

Here I am trying to advocate for SELF-RESPECT in us, fellow muslims and I am not getting that same love. That same Commenality to Unite and take a little Pride in our selfs as Muslims.

Concentrate on the Positives more and inshallah, you will be able to hold your head up high.

 

Imagine this,

 

If EVERY African american were asked to apologize and take RESPONSIBILITY for GUN VIOLENCE and Crack? :rolleyes:

 

Well, thats how MUSLIMS are treated and viewed by Most-ALWAYS RESPONSIBILE for EVERYTHING NEGATIVE that a Muslim does (ALL 1.4BILLION of them).

 

Fi Amanillah

[Socod_badne]

Why does A Muslim have to Apologize or be held accountable for...

 

 

Because most muslims demand an apology everytime every two-bit rabble-rouser so much dares to utter a whiff about Islam. Why deny others the same right?

[Khayr]

Check out the response of the Muslim lawyer 37mins into the video

[Caano Geel]

^ dude,

have just realised you live in the us, i'm sorry i wont bring this relativism crap into it again. You lot are lucky they dont road test grampy's 45 on you.

[Cara.]

Khayr,

 

Originally posted by Khayr:

100 lies amidst one truth....

 

I agree and I personally do my part as a muslim inshallah and let my character speak more volumes, just follow the various sunnans(prophetic traditions/practices) and inshallah just be true to my deen.

Khayr, it's in your character to indulge in name-calling, hyperbole, and expecting people to agree with you because you repeat the same thing again and again in capital letters. If you were right about people expecting Muslims to apologize for the actions of a few, I would be demanding that the Muslims of SOL issue a heartfelt apology for your behavior. I don't know what Sunnah you're following, but be true to the niceties of online discussions at least. Quit the ad hominem attacks.

 

I don't see you asking about why the Americans put an embargo on Iranians for wanting an islamic state, why iraqi kids were starved to death b/c of american lead boycotts (100,000's of children, old people). How come you dont' FIRE AWAY and BLAME OTHERS?

Okay, obviously you can't tell a difference between the actions of states and those of individuals. Clearly, YOU are to blame for Siad Barre's bombing of Hargeisa, and just as clearly, Somalia is to blame for that dude in Minneapolis accused of molesting a young girl.

 

Then again, I don't want to leave the impression that I approve of U.S. actions, or that I think as citizens we are not responsible. But one ought to be mindful of whether the response fits the offense. Yes, America's embargo of Iraq is wrong, so let's go kill some Canadians is hardly a rational argument.

 

As to the maker of the cream cheese, he supports Denmark and if that company doesn't lobby the government to get the EDITOR fired (theY got the money and the power to do so) and just supports their government's actions, then they should be boycotted. Afterall, they make their money from Muslims too.

I see your reasoning here. So if an Italian priest in Turkey dies because a Danish tabloid angered a Muslim youth (who predictably murdered him while screaming "allahu akbar"), which government should the Italian priest petition to remove the offense to the Muslim youth? The Italian gov't? The Danish gov't? Do you really expect a non-Muslim to feel Muhammed's honor was legitimately defended in this case?

 

So is it ok for a Muslim then to include in almost every conversation they have with an americann, that an APOLOGY should be made for AMERICANSS massacring kids in Falluja in Nov./dec. 2004? Or killing Afghani people from a Tomcat f-14 high up in the sky, like it was a video game? etc...

I was under the impression that they already do. I've never met a Muslim who did not blame and dislike Americans for their actions (and inactions) in the Muslim world. The key isn't that Muslims blame Americans, it's that Americans by and large don't care. On the other hand, Muslims care what non-Muslims think about Islam, the Prophet, etc. Part and parcel of a religion seeking converts, I'm afraid. If Muslims don't like apologizing, all they have to do is stop. There's no law stating that CAIR is requires to give a press conference every time some Muslim does something unsavory. I have a feeling that CAIR wouldn't mind such a law though.

 

Also, why do Americans BLAME BUSH for everything, last time i recall, a whole lot of americans continue to sign up WILLINGLY to join the ARMY. Bush didn't win with a 1000 votes, rather millions supported him.

Bush manipulated the political process to "win" the elections in 2000, and then manipulated gullible and not-so-bright Americans to win re-election in 2004. I didn't vote for him either time, I didn't support the war on Iraq, and I and nearly half of the voting population of America disagree with his policies.

 

As for the army, they've had well-documented difficulties recruiting even the clueless high schoolers of Middle America, so much so that they are toying with filling the ranks with high school drop-outs. Not exactly my idea of Americans "willingly" to join the army. When it comes to common facts, you must get yours out of the Twilight Zone, Khayr.

 

Also, when its time to rescue an American, they all become united as Americans and are more then willing to support that rescue by ANY means NEcessary(even if it includes killing children, innocent people. To them, they are incidentals.)

That's true. Sad, but that's Americans/Chinese/Turks/Somalis for you. In every culture there are those who hold their race, nationality, religion or what have you above right and wrong.

 

The muslim has to apologize for everything related to Muslims and Islam-Tell me why again they have to do that???

Okay, Khayr, you've repeated this a million times. When you say "has to", are you refering to legally? In which way are Muslims compelled to apologize? Can you give us some documented cases in which Muslims where dragged kicking and screaming to a press conference and told to apologize? Just one?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Callypso:

In which way are Muslims

compelled

to apologize?

In no way but our friend Kheyr, if you haven't noticed yet, has uncanny tendency to create great deal of brouhaha over non-issues. Perhaps it's one of the possible side effects that comes with literally believing the earth is flat. So we shouldn't be so hard on him.

 

Kheyr, tilt away at those windmills my boy. Get 'em!

[Khayr]

Callypso said:

Khayr, it's in your character to indulge in name-calling, hyperbole, and expecting people to agree with you because you repeat the same thing again and again in capital letters. If you were right about people expecting Muslims to apologize for the actions of a few, I would be demanding that the Muslims of SOL issue a heartfelt apology for your behavior. I don't know what Sunnah you're following, but be true to the niceties of online discussions at least. Quit the ad hominem attacks.

When you proclaim IGNORANCE/JAHILNIMO with a sense of ARROGANCE and expouse your Atheistic, Secular ideas and ridicule all that has do with RELIGION and in particular ISLAM, which is my way of life, the way of life of my ancestors and many other nomads, then don't expect ME to be all NICE about things in the name of 'DEBATE NICETIES'. Its like someone SPITTING ON YOUR FACE and saying to you-Please respond back NICELY! :rolleyes:

 

Callypso,

 

Is the Blindperson equal to the one that can SEE, is the Deafperson equal to the one that can HEAR? In the eyes of the Muslim, they are not and thus, get treated differently.

 

Your AIM thus far in your writings has been to be CYNICAL of ISLAM and MUSLIMS and to DEMEAN what they VALUE.

 

Callaypso said:

Yes, America's embargo of Iraq is wrong, so let's go kill some Canadians is hardly a rational argument.

Where did I say that? Why Jump the gun to NEGATIVE STEREO TYPING?

 

quote:

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So is it ok for a Muslim then to include in almost every conversation they have with an americann, that an APOLOGY should be made for AMERICANSS massacring kids in Falluja in Nov./dec. 2004? Or killing Afghani people from a Tomcat f-14 high up in the sky, like it was a video game? etc...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I was under the impression that they already do. I've never met a Muslim who did not blame and dislike Americans for their actions (and inactions) in the Muslim world. The key isn't that Muslims blame Americans, it's that Americans by and large don't care. On the other hand, Muslims care what non-Muslims think about Islam, the Prophet, etc. Part and parcel of a religion seeking converts, I'm afraid. If Muslims don't like apologizing, all they have to do is stop. There's no law stating that CAIR is requires to give a press conference every time some Muslim does something unsavory. I have a feeling that CAIR wouldn't mind such a law though.

They don't care what they DO TO OTHERS, yet they EXPECT EVERY muslim, all 1.4 billion, to always APOLOGIZE for 99/11.

 

Muslims are by and large, required to Apologize and do some SELF-BLAME, if they want to raise an ISSUE that is brought about by NON MUSLIMS i.e. danish cartoons. So Muslims just can't stop APOLOGIZING b/c they would then be accused of being Hypocritical, not treating ALL ISSUES as Equal etc... Also, If a Muslim doesn't Apologize, they are then viewed as being HOSTILE or RUDE. (Refer to your earlier comments for a little proof!)

 

The muslim has to apologize for everything related to Muslims and Islam-Tell me why again they have to do that???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Okay, Khayr, you've repeated this a million times. When you say "has to", are you refering to legally? In which way are Muslims compelled to apologize? Can you give us some documented cases in which Muslims where dragged kicking and screaming to a press conference and told to apologize? Just one?

A MUSLIM is BOOKED, JUDGED AND SENTENCED through PUBLIC ANTI-MUSLIM/RELIGION SENTIMENTS.

 

Its the People that conduct the trails (refer to the Peer Jury system as an example) and form the SENTIMENTS that push for lobbying of bills and laws.

 

Now can you reflect a little and not Equate Islam and muslims with Negative IMAGEERY!!!