Thread on rebellion against muslim rulers!

[Fiqikhayre]

We see face to face here brother, I know what you're talking about it's essential in what the ICU have failed in or couldn't see!

 

You detest their methods but are following it yourself! So I put this challenge to you what would you do? What is your tactic?

 

What I'm advocating for is really easy for a lasting islamic revolution to take place there are some stepping points to consider carefully before embarking on it!

 

All I'm saying is let's come together, spread the Dawah agree on a strategy to follow, the preach it to the people and after the purication and teaching process embark on that revolution with your fellow brothers you see eye to eye with and I will not fall out with over patty ideological differences!

 

It's a process brother before you can walk you're not going to run i.e. as a baby you had to learn first how to walk then gradually could you run but how if you proposed to run before you could actually walk? Maybe you were a genious and could 'run' without first learning how to walk but then again how could a person without brain/legs run?

 

It's only logical what I'm talking about brother think it through! We all are against invasion and US support but what can you do brother is the question?

 

You say we shouldn't accept such govermnent but what are you advocating for 'civil strife', that will even give more reasons to our enemy to kill us further and many people would die needlessly!

 

Think about the many people who would die in a guerilla warfare? I say if this government interfere's with our relgion i.e. You can't pray, you've to eat pork and you must fornicate and take usuary then no but that is not the case!

 

Yes you viewed your objections but again I've to ask what is the alternative?

 

The same goes to the rest of the muslim nations! Look at nations in where the khawaarij resisted their countries such as Egypt, Syria and Algeria! The Khawaarij in Algeria were waging a war in their country because their countries leaders were supposedly 'kaafir' and they kissed up to the french! What have they achieved in Algeria brother other than putting their people at harms way?

 

Think of it, I say no to hasty revolutions that will fail but 'yes' to purification and teaching of our nation and uniting the different viewpoints amongst the salaf followers only i.e. people that follow the right aqaaid!

 

But to call your leaders unislamic or kaafir or rebellion will not lead us to nowhere except it will open the gates of hell for us! In terms of trials and tribulations and further chaos and anarchy!

 

Think brother before you embark on such act your soul has to purified and that of the nation aswell because there is many unislamic innovations and thought patterns that have been added to our relgion and those are we needed to eradicate from our minds and souls!

 

Gradual steps akhi if you're sincere about an islamic rule to happen or the country being ruled under proper Islamic Sharia Law and Somslis would be the first inshallaah but it takes time! That's why I say look at the sunnah and study it!

 

The prophet peace be upon him was living for 13 years amongst Quraish polytheists that were harming him and his followers and he was patient, he did not rebel against their rule despite to what evil they were inflicting on him and his followers!

 

Then he moved/migrated to Madinah were he established a government with building an alliance witht he jews of that holy city to protect the interests of the muslims and their state from the arab polytheists that want to harm it! Then gradually the muslims became strong, the signed a peace treaty at Xudaybiyah with the Quraish for a intial period of 10 years

after some protest because some of the muslism didn't see the wisdom behind that treaty and were upset because they thought it was a defeat and humiliation (couldn't perform the hajj and had to go back and had to hand over 'muslims' i.e. men that converted to Islaam back to Makkah and the polytheists and mushirks)!

 

Brother that's why I'm always iretrating for us to follow the sunnah because never has a revolution happened over a night without people that are willing to carry out who share the same belief and aqeedah, are united, have the support of the people and have a leader a Amiir that can coordinate their affairs in what they set out to do!

 

All I'm saying is don't attempt to run when you can't walk because if you do, you will most probably fail! Aweys and the rest of his friends will never learn because they're classic khwaarij followers who have limited knowledge regarding on how to bring about real and lasting change that will benefit the people of our country!

[Khalaf]

^^I am in agreement u make great points....move this to islamic section and debate brother Nur or others......they are strong icu supporters

[Fiqikhayre]

Brother I shall in due time inshallaah but the khwaarij need a long time of convincing before they actually see the logic behind my arguments!

 

I particularly posted this thread for Xiin but he's no where to be seen because he doesn't have any arguments to refute the said!

 

All other's have went silent aswell!

 

But before you go akhi may I suggest reading few glimpses of the article below written by a great islamic scholar of the last centuary Sheikh Muhammed Nasiruddin Al-Albaani!

Here it is: Purification and Education

 

Because we know the firmly established reality, which is being neglected or more accurately purposely neglected, by those extremists who do not have anything except that they proclaim Takfeer of the rulers, and then nothing else!!

 

And they continue to proclaim Takfeer of the rulers then nothing stems from them, or about them, except discord and strife!!

 

The calamities in these past few years which have been by the hands of these people, beginning from the discord (fitnah) of the Haraam of Makkah to the dissension in Egypt and the killing of Sadaat. Finally, in Syria and now in Egypt and Algeria- a sight that everyone can see; the shedding of the blood of many of the innocent Muslims because of these fitn, tribulations, and the occurrence of many trials and calamities.

 

All of this because they opposed many of the texts from the Book and the Sunnah and the most important of which is:

 

"Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah you have a good example to follow, for him who hopes in the meeting with Allaah and the Last Day and remembers Allaah much."

 

If we really want to establish the rule of Allaah on the earth – in reality not just in a claim - then do we start with making Takfeer of the rulers while it is not possible for us to confront them – let alone fighting them - or do we start – with the obligation - the Messenger of Allaah - SallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam - started with?

 

There is no doubt that the answer is:

 

"Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah you have a good example to follow……"

 

But what did the Messenger of Allaah - SallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam -begin with?

 

It is known – with certainty - to anyone who has smelt the fragrance of knowledge that he began with the Daw’ah between individuals whom he thought were ready to accept the truth. Then whoever was ready to respond to him, from the individuals of the noble Companions responded to him - as it is well known in the prophetic biography. Then the punishment and the severity befell these Muslims in Makkah. After that came the command for the first migration and the second until Allaah Azza wa Jal consolidated Islaam in al-Madeena al-Munnawara. From there began the skirmishes and the opposition. Also, the fighting between the Muslims and the kuffaar on one side and the Jews from the other.……etc.

 

Therefore it is necessary for us to begin by teaching the people the true Islaam; like the Messenger - SallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam - had begun. Now we cannot just confine ourselves to teaching alone, because things have entered into Islaam which are not from it, and has no association with Islaam, from the bida' and innovations which were the reason for the clear downfall of the lofty status of Islaam.

 

Because of this it is obligatory upon those inviting to Islaam to begin with purification of Islaam from what has entered into it.

 

The first principle – “Purification”

 

The second principle – “Education”

The education that is associated with this purification is the education of the young active Muslims on this pure Islaam.

 

If we study the reality of the Islaamic groups which have existed, for nearly a generation, and their ideas and the practice of these ideas. We would find that many of them have not benefited themselves, nor have they benefited others with anything that can be remembered! Despite their outcry and noise, that they want an Islaamic government!! Which was a reason of spilling blood of the innocent with this baseless argument!! Without them having realised anything from it.

 

We continue to hear from their beliefs which are opposed to the Book and Sunnah and actions which are negated by the Book and Sunnah, let alone them trying, again and again with futile attempts which oppose the Sharia'.

 

Finally I say: there is a statement which one of the propagators of Islaam said, which I used to hope that his followers would adhere to it and fulfill it, which is: 'Establish the Islaamic state in your heart it will be established for you on the earth.'

 

Because If a Muslim corrects his Aqeedah built upon the Book and Sunnah, then there is no doubt that from this he will correct his worship, correct his behavior and his manners etc.

 

But, with regret, these fine words have not been acted upon by these people, they persist with an outcry to establish the Islaamic state but without any benefit! and it is said about them – and I swear by Allaah to this - what the poet said is true:

 

You hope for success and you do not follow its path

Indeed a ship does not sail on dry land.

 

Perhaps in this what I have mentioned is persuasive enough for every just person, and a termination for every oppressor.

 

We seek Allaah's help.

 

 

 

[N.O.R.F]

Again, you seem you to be going from one subject to the other. What are we talking about here?

 

Is the TFG a legal entity under Islam (killers/warlords are memebers)?

 

Was the so called 'treaty' with Ethiopia legal? Both islamically and under secularism?

 

Try to stick to the above questions and stop waffling and rememeber i'm after quality and not quantity. I will come back later,,,,,,,IA

[xiinfaniin]

@Fiqi-yare! This xadiith should suffice to apprehend your vandalism of the sayings of our prophet Muhammad (scw):

لاطاعة لمخلوق في معصية الخالخ

 

^^This is also an Islamic formula; its benefits are without end! It’s a Muslim’s modes operandi in worshipping Allah! If you didn’t know it before learn it now yaa Fiqi!

 

That aside and since you so mightily labored to produce this write up to theologically justify adeer Yey’s rule, let me ask you two questions adeer:

1- What are the divinely sanctioned objectives of a Muslim ruler, the mundane interests and spiritual benefits that are required of him?

2- Can you tell us some of the basic characteristics and attributes of such a leader and discuss permissible processes by which such a righteous leader can be selected/elected?

 

Other than that, I must note that I find your effort to give a religious dye to old man's presidency beyond lunacy! The man has never sought legitimacy through religion and I don’t think he cares what religious rights are given to him on the subjects he claims to govern! Midda kale he fully knows that whatever legitimacy he has emanates from a two-year process where a collection of fulltime killers and death-lords spent time in discussing different modalities to share power and donors money! How you dare to sanction such a tainted leader as righteous Imaam beats me wallaahi!

 

ps--raali ahow ikhyaarta golaha waan kasoo dibdhacaye!

[Fiqikhayre]

And I'm after a sincere discussion my brother, I answered all your questions for you and if you don't mind refuting them, then say so that you are in agreement with them but if you disagree please refute my arguments with some counter arguments and evidence, shall we?

 

Oh, I forgot! And please can we turn down the sentiments a bit? For as harbouring hatred and dislike will make it harder for you to accept the truth!

 

I'm open-hearted and ready to accept new opinions as long as they're logical and don't controdict my religion but it seems brother that it's a bit difficult for you to do the same and not be affected by hate you got for the poster of this thread! That's not suspicioun brother but an good advice from mine side! You're a young person who should not be affected by accepting the truth because it is propagated by someone you dislike for whatever reasons!

 

Refute my arguments I say and address them properly because I don't have time to say it a thousand times for you!

[xiinfaniin]

Fiqi yare’s argument: the old man is a Muslim ruler and as such we should all obey him. As a Muslim ruler, he has every right to enter treaty with whomever he wishes, including the Tigre regime and their American backers. All those poor souls who were maimed or killed by the Tigre tanks and American gunners, were on the wrong path of opposing their Amiir, and probably died in a wrongful rebellion! We shouldn’t dispute the legitimacy of the process that produced our Amir (that was implicit in your argument) as it was fairly regulated and happened under the full supervision of current world powers and their representatives.

 

^^^ That’s, in a nutshell, what you are spewing here! You can’t camouflage your support of this government with prophetic sayings. If you truly think this man has religious sanction of sort we need to understand where you are coming from and what definition of a Muslim ruler you have! It’s laughable that you make another assertions and label me as a hater! That’s a very strong word. I don’t hate you adeer but I think you are unstable. But when you sought religion as a justification of the war crimes that Yey and his cabal committed, the snare you sat up for yourself is indeed worthy the priaise, yaa Fiqi!

[Khalaf]

Xiin did not the old man want to sit down and talk peace in the beginning and the icu went on a rampage to "jihad".....and how is he any different then arab rulers who kill their own family for power and work for uncle sam, should they the people rise and depose of their unislamic rulers by any means neccessary? they are beside the point however.... u strongly support the icu now refute the points made by Fiqq in the first post on this page about these movements!

[Castro]

I always thought the claim that some Somalis have more faith in clan than in Islam to be utterly absurd. Boy was I ever wrong.

[N.O.R.F]

^^yesterday they were calling the ICU members fake wadaads. Today they try to 'educate' us on 'muslim' rulers

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by Castro:

I always thought the claim that some Somalis have more faith in clan than in Islam to be utterly absurd. Boy was I ever wrong.

Castro if it makes u happy.....what Fiqq said in the 1st post on page 2 refute it anyone about these movements methods (which i said from day 1 mths ago but never could put it as nicely) and fadlik ppl leave cheap shots aside and talk about the subject.

[Taliban]

Originally posted by Castro:

I always thought the claim that some Somalis have more faith in clan than in Islam to be utterly absurd. Boy was I ever wrong.

You aren't wrong. Surely, you can't suggest Muslims like Sheikh Dahir Aweys, Sheikh Sharif Ahmed and hundreds thousands (if not millions) devout Somalis have more faith in clan than in Islam. The truth is, secular (including clanists since clanism is an extension of secularism) Somalis represent a minority in Somalia. Their ideology and what they represent exists because of outside forces. Without those forces, they would cease into existence.

[Fiqikhayre]

Yaa Salaam! Al-Hamdulillaah! Thanks brother Xiin that you found sometime to take part in this thread!

 

Brother I'm not saying you should participiate in the wrong actions of our leaders but that we should advice them according to the sunnah and away from civil strife and disaccord!

 

There is no obedience in wrong/haraam actions but how to refute them is the answer?

 

According to your logic we should all be in arms because you can not tell me one muslim country that today is run by a righteous muslim ruler according that of a righteous Imaam who rules with the book of Allaah! Also at the times of the Khulafas there were many oppressive, murderous and bad rulers amongst the muslims but never ever has the khawaarij doctrine of opposing those leaders by taking up arms/swords resulted in any good other then great calamities and fitan that has befallen its people until they'd wish they never start it!

 

Our prophet also encouraged us to be steadfast and patient if we are ruled by unjust rulers and not resort into rebellion for as rebellion brings nothing good but unlawful killings of innocent muslims and the halalization of muslim wealth and blood!

 

Khwaarijis are strong advocaters for as they see any ruler that makes a mistake for being a kaafir and they're very quick in labelling him into such allegation without justification! But let me ask you what good would such a disobedience to the rulers generate?

 

I'm not saying obey him in the haraam, if he says 'drink alcohol', you say 'no' but what is your objection based on if I may ask? And how do you express it? Rushing to the swords you say?

 

Well that's not a good solution because that would not bring forth any good outcome in fact it would worsen it and thereful becoming unlawful even if it is lawful because doing good which will lead to greater harm should not be done!

 

On the other hand I thought you were sincere brother because if you'd have read carefully what I've written you would realise that it is the truth and actually makes sense!

 

But you brother are advocating for a great evil that if would be allowed to befall the nation would kill many and know that you're accountable to Allaah on judgement day! What will you say to him?

 

Brother calling our leaders kaafirs or refusing the obey them or rebellion against them leads to greater harm for as the khwaarij call for the removal of their leaders without any other solution! They want to rush to the swords without having an alternative but what say you brother? Open up your heart and expand your mind akhi, the ways of a khwaarij isn't befitting towards you and you should reject it totally because for khwaarij have no knowledge in the deen!

 

Take more time to reflect brother!

[Fiqikhayre]

Excuse brother Xiin but the post you mistook was not directed towards you but the brother Northerner who I addressed and not you, so take it back yaa akhi!

[N.O.R.F]

^^Which post was that?