Has the tide turned? Your thoughts on the ICU and the TFG

[Baashi]

Waryee Libaax is it true that politicians are engineers ? And the engineers that I have in mind is social engineers not the chemical/process engineers Awoowe the questions you posed are pertinent questions that need not to be taken lightly. Unfortunetly I'm short on time!

[Thierry.]

1. Without failing to appreciate the ICU’s mission which seems to have marched through few local snares, do you think the TFG, despite its lack of a legitimate base of support, still has the opportunity to unite the Somalis under some sort of a real government banner without a bloodshed?

 

This very hard to say although there is always room for peacefull negotiations if the conditions are in place. and the condition is very simple cut foreign influence in Somali affairs, so that unconditional negotiations can take place. When this has taken place the power sharing suggestion is the best policy forward. If the TFG does this then they will have the upper hand if the courts refuse then the masses will look at them differently. However I do understand that within the TFG leadership there is a growing fear that if the TFG abandons it support for Addis Ababa then they will be defence less, this is something to negotiate (if they state that for their safety and the time it will take for tangible trust to be sealed they require few hundreds, thousands foreign troops preferably muslims to protect them, then this is a reasonable request).

 

2. Is the ICU, which at the moment has less clan diversity than the TFG, the only option we have for a government?

 

I believe that there are two options on the table

A) Power sharing between the Islamic courts and the TFG ( a very good option but its upto the TFG)

 

B) Islamic courts take full control of all regions in Somalia with the establishment of local based courts governed using Shariah (this option will be the hard and long option but there will be one supreme entity in Somalia)

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

^^how can there be power sharing between two entities who were formed for two opposing reasons? The government was formed to address what was universally understood as the Somali problem: Clan competition and difference. The UIC was formed at first to dispense Sharia laws in lawless mogadishu, then to kick warlords out of mogadishu and now to form a religous administration as for as they can reach. As a government based on clan balance, how can they aborb the UIC because their(UIC) clan reps already occupy whatever seats they can be given in Parliament and as self decleared sheikhs, they could have nothing to with the administration which requires some technical or political know-how? Furthermore, as clan, the UIC can only be given only few seats, will that setisfy them?

[Thierry.]

NN you sure sure analyse things from a clanist point of view. It is true that nations start of springing from one set of people but it is the idealogy which makes it great just look through history from the mongols, the ottomans and most famously Querish.

 

Almost all Somalis (as muslims) support the Islamic Idealogy and jurisprudence of the IUC I am sure no muslim Somali in his right mind would prefer man made laws as opposed to ruling by the divine law of (Allah subxana wa tala) it is the method of implementation that is causing a rift. some people do not like the fact that it springs from one clan, the fact is it has to start from somewhere.

 

The power sharing will be a temporary solution until the current TFG sees out its term.

Then hopefully we reengineer the whole political system in Somalia. As you can see there are courts springing from all regions in Somalia which are run by noble people in comparison to the former stewards in the regions.

 

when the interim governments term runs out then then courts from all regions will form a new government which governs by Islam in its totality (inshallah).

 

The power sharing will ease the handover to the real people of muslim Somalia, the masses who want to be governed by just, uncorrupt, and God fearing rulers.

Inshallah each region will bring forward their most pious sons who are known by their justice and kindness and Taqwa.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

NN you sure sure analyse things from a clanist point of view

Brtoher, it is not clanistic analysis but all people who have looked the "Somali problem" have come to the conclusion that is was based clan difference.

Almost all Somalis (as muslims) support the Islamic Idealogy and jurisprudence of the IUC I am sure no muslim Somali in his right mind would prefer man made laws as opposed to ruling by the divine law of (Allah subxana wa tala)

Let me , for the sake of arguement, agree with you that the UIC is fighting to implement an ideology (One I think ideologies should be accepted and two, islam is religion, a faith rather than political idealogy for me), what is the Ideology that they are opposing. No religion but Islam has existed in the Somali peninsula for centuries. Such an ideological war was already, and the UIC is a couple centuries late.

As you can see there are courts springing from all regions in Somalia which are run by noble people in comparison to the former stewards in the regions.

Forget about (not that nobility comes to mind when I think of awes, indho iyo salaat)the rest of the Somali people, atleast are not the rest of these wadaads clan noble? Because, unlike what you say, they come from the Same Sub-sub-sub clan. How odd that the medicine you suggest for a sick nation from a virus called qabyalet is one sub-sub-sub clan to despense law,of whatevery kind. How sad that just when you think you have solved your problems and start make some progress, primitive turban wearing mullahs come to ditract people under the cloak of religion to what is in their interest. Friends, islam, perhaps before it even took root in Arabia, whats brought to Somalia and other Kushitic nations, islam ban wadna wax dadka 2006 lagu cawarikaro mahe, wax kale keena.

[Thierry.]

Let me , for the sake of arguement, agree with you that the UIC is fighting to implement an ideology (One I think ideologies should be accepted and two, islam is religion, a faith rather than political idealogy for me), what is the Ideology that they are opposing. No religion but Islam has existed in the Somali peninsula for centuries. Such an ideological war was already, and the UIC is a couple centuries late.

 

 

Again your use of words are wrong the courts have clearly stated and it is clear to all who do not have an agenda that all regions that they have entered was based on invitation.

On the second point Islam is NOT A RELIGION IT IS A WAY OF LIFE, it is not a ism which you practice on sunday or the sabbath, Islam constitutes all aspect of life including POLITICS. You are right Islam has existed in Somalia for centuries but in modern history ( say modern history because i do not know by which law Somalia was governed by before the colonial period) name me a perod even a day in which Somalia was governed by the Quran and Sunnah which is a idealogy and a way of life.

 

 

Forget about (not that nobility comes to mind when I think of awes, indho iyo salaat)the rest of the Somali people, atleast are not the rest of these wadaads clan noble? Because, unlike what you say, they come from the Same Sub-sub-sub clan. How odd that the medicine you suggest for a sick nation from a virus called qabyalet is one sub-sub-sub clan to despense law,of whatevery kind. How sad that just when you think you have solved your problems and start make some progress, primitive turban wearing mullahs come to ditract people under the cloak of religion to what is in their interest. Friends, islam, perhaps before it even took root in Arabia, whats brought to Somalia and other Kushitic nations, islam ban wadna wax dadka 2006 lagu cawarikaro mahe, wax kale keena.

 

 

Again you do not seem to comprehend what i am telling you get out of this clan issue I have clearly stated that IUC idealogy yes started from a sub sub sub clan as you put it. it is a fact of life that every individual on the face of earth comes from a clan of some sort. the idealogy is global mate just because sub sub sub sub sub sub clan ignites it does not make it the sole leader of it.

On the issue regarding whether Islam should be accepted rather than forced, yes you are right, is that not what the IUC has been calling for since it started, did it not state that all Somali intellectuals should take part in the decision making process.

My friend if you believe that those who want to rule by the rules of their creator are primative and made then your quarrel is with a higher deity than the courts.

[Thierry.]

sorry I cant use the quotes as efficiently as you

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

Again your use of words are wrong the courts have clearly stated and it is clear to all who do not have an agenda that all regions that they have entered was based on invitation.

So, Puntland invited these so called wadaads from xamar to come govern them? Why is it that instead of running towards hiiraan which had governmet appionted administration and puntland, why "invited" to Afgoi, merca, barawe and kismayo. They, though have not "Invited" the "wadaad" of xamar, We all know they would be willing to give invition.

 

On the second point Islam is NOT A RELIGION IT IS A WAY OF LIFE, it is not a ism which you practice on sunday or the sabbath, Islam constitutes all aspect of life including POLITICS.

brther you may define your faith as you see fit but how aragont of you to define for all its followers. Even the religion you say you follow tells you that there is no compulsion in faith.

 

name me a perod even a day in which Somalia was governed by the Quran and Sunnah which is a idealogy and a way of life.

correct me if Iam wrong was it not written on every constitution or charter of country that the source of law was the Quran (As the peoples representative understand it, not self-appionted wadaads).

 

Again you do not seem to comprehend what i am telling you get out of this clan issue

Its not about me, ours is a nation of clans and it was those very people who today fight in name of our religion against other muslims who used clan names to destroy our country and occuppy most of the south.

[Abu-Salman]

Certain individuals arguing needlessly definitely give the impression that they are not concerned about preserving Islamic rule, thus the utter futility of any further debate with their kind.

 

Indeed, even debating on wether Shariah should be implemented is sinful enough for a self-respecting Muslim, as if it is about an open choice (and this is constantly stressed in the Quran).

 

Now, for those who consider themselves Muslims but favor warlord secularism upon Shariah, their incoherence could hardly be more flagrant.

 

As a matter of fact, even Christians fundamentalist in power in Washington, and who consider assisting Israel in its genocidal enterprises as a divine requirement, endeavour to implement their rather inconsistent philosophy in every sphere, not least in the political scene as clearly demonstrated by Bush and his indefictible ally Blair, both practising protestants.

 

Should they seek to distract us through the over-used clan cards, as if it wasn't caused by the prevalent lack of Shariah implementation, let's ignore their primitiveness and obvious lack of any consistency...

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

blah blah blah. Bush and blair, its really beyound me to understand how you threw that into the mix but stop debating if you feel other who have a different opinion should be ignored. Last time I chicked, this is not a who agrees with me forum. Again, I thought that jibouti was a different country, why do you concern yourself with Somali affair? Getting back to the subject, it is a choice. everything we do is a choice. God has sent us to prove to him that we are worthy to return to heavan through the choices we make. If we did not have to do that, and there is no free will, whats the piont of being sent to earth? That discussion, however, is in the wrong section and should be the islam section. Only a jahil would confuse the two.

[xiinfaniin]

LS,

 

TFG proved to be incompetent as far as doing something with its mandate goes. On top of its glaring incompetence, it seems to be overly dependent on Ethiopia and unable to make any decisions at all without the latter’s directives! Any casual observer can clearly see how this TFG became a cat’s-paw for Ethiopia and its interest in the region on the expense of its (TFG’s, that is) own political objectives. Given that observation of mine I see no way out for the TFG and I believe it will be reduced to an irrelevant entity. The only elbowroom the old man has is Puntland and its clueless leader---I think. He is making sure, it seems to me, to create as many hurdles as possible so even if the ICU succeeds in the south, the process of uniting the country under one leadership becomes more difficult, if not unworkable. Whether ICU leadership understands that political calculation remains to be seen (fully). But if its latest military adventurism is something to go by, old man, failed to do any good with his term, might have succeeded in scoring few wins in sewing new seeds of conflict in that region. Of course ICU will share the blame with him on that account. So to answer your first question, I don’t see this TFG (in its current form) succeeding to do anything good at all. The fact that its leaders are divided makes it even harder for them to pull it off.

 

 

ICU is certainly is a sign of hope for Somalia. It obviously can’t do all the things we want to be done in the south, but surely it has made a lot of progress and done a lot of good. And if it continues with this pace, I can see a light, as cliché goes, in Somalia’s long and dark tunnel. But I wouldn’t say it’s the only option we have for a government! Certainly it seems to be a good agent who can help revive Somali state but there are a lot more factors and variables to Somali politics than Islamic Courts could solve. As NGONGE pointed out even with the demise of TFG there would still be Somaliland and Puntland neither of whom are impressed with the Islamic Courts. Assuming of course that Somalia’s larger problems are political in nature and thusly require negotiated settlement to solve, the emergence of Islamic Courts is just the beginning of a viable solution, and not the silver-bullet some of us wish it to be. Somali politics is based on clannish settings and that structure has been cemented by the experience of civil war. Even if we assume that ICU will succeed in the south (I am talking the south which matters) and exact complete control over it, that would give them a substantial leverage but not an outright monopoly to be the only option of government we could get. The fact that both Puntland and Somaliland have secular administrations renders such proposition impractical. Ethiopia is another power to reckon with here as it has a substantial influence on those two entities. When you really look at it, it would be easier for the ICU to reach some settlement with the current TFG rather than deal with those two entities I just mentioned. Such settlement would give them the political cover they would need to pursue larger political goals than currently announced. But of course it seems unlikely to see such arrangements forthcoming any time soon as the TFG seems to be bogged down by internal fighting (instigated by Ethiopia of course).

 

But to be sure ICU is better positioned, politically and morally (if you believe there is a moral dimension to our politics), than its main rival, the TFG. There is no doubt in my mind that its legacy will outlive that of old man’s presidency and its political approach will influence future politics of our homeland. So to answer your second question, and to control my ramble, ICU would not be the only option Somalis would have (not this time anyway) but it will sure be a power to reckon with and as long it has Mogadishu as its seat of power no political calculus could avoid to ignore its significance. It goes without saying that having incompetent TFG and two hostile regional administrations will delay the rebirth of Somali state, a goal for which ICU is working to attain. Not their[iCU's] fault though.

[Abu-Salman]

Well, Puntlanders could hardly consider to secede given the clanic geography of the dominant clan there as well as other economic incentives in addition to obvious moral qualms.

 

Besides, why seceding just when Puntlanders can claim back now their properties or fertile farms in the most strategic part of the country, thanks to UIC selfless dedication?

 

Needless to say, this will proves delicate to sell an idea for the Tigre colonists who have begun to implement their "civilians disappearances" policy in the midst of Garowe (according to Garowe online).

 

Somaliland laymen could still be manipulated by their compromized af-mishaaro clique given the lingering atrocities commited by the past dictatorship.

 

However, it should be recalled that prominent members of the Hargeisa clan as well as significative segments of others clans are more enthusiast than ever now that a dignified Islamic State seems an attainable alternative.

 

At any rate, it goes without saying that any glimpse of hope for the warlords maffia to extend their corruption to Somaliland will only further foil the unity's ideal as Yusuf's election was only tempered by the courts victories...

[Abu-Salman]

I've come accross Thursday's edition of the Djiboutian "official" newspaper which, combined with the quite promising latest regional developments, makes even more explicit who is determined to prolong Somali's suffering at all cost and why its evil scheme is doomed:

 

 

L'Union des Tribunaux Islamiques

Au-delà des préjugés

 

Depuis la disparition du gouvernement central somalien en 1991, la Somalie a sombré dans la guerre civile et l'anarchie. Même l'intervention de la première puissance militaire de la planète n'a pu instaurer la paix malgré les moyens déployés. Les batailles rangées qui ont opposé les Marines aux partisans des principaux chefs de guerre ayant coûté la vie à une vingtaine de soldats américains, le gouvernement américain, poussé, il est vrai, par une opinion nationale qui ne comprenait pas l'intérêt d'une telle intervention, a décidé le retrait immédiat de ses troupes non sans avoir mis dans le pétrin les Nations Unies qui à leur tour décidèrent d'envoyer des forces multinationales avant d'essuyer le même échec. En proie à la lutte des chefs de guerre devenus maîtres d'une Somalie fantôme, les Américains ont soupçonné parfois même la présence des membres d'Al-Qaida. Hypothèse il est vrai invérifiable vu l'anarchie qui y règne.

 

En quinze ans de guerre civile, les warlords somaliens n'ont jamais fait état de la présence d'éléments " terroristes " dans leur pays. Puis un beau jour, voyant leurs intérêts personnels menacés, ils en trouvèrent des divisions entières.

 

Ils ont mis sur pied une Alliance censée lutter contre le terrorisme avec le soutien de certains pays de la région qui ne veulent surtout pas voir la renaissance d'une Somalie stable. Mais dans la terrible guerre que se sont livré les chefs de guerre somaliens et l'Union des Tribunaux Islamiques largement soutenus par la société civile ; ces derniers en sortiront vainqueurs. Ils contrôlent désormais la capitale et une grande partie du Sud du pays. La réunification de la capitale et l'ouverture du port et de l'aéroport en un temps record ont redonné espoir à bon nombre de Somaliens de la diaspora qui se sont rués vers la capitale pour voir la situation de leurs propres yeux. Les intellectuels somaliens, écrivains et professeurs des grandes universités américaines et européennes sont unanimes : les Tribunaux Islamiques sont prêts à engager une large consultation populaire pour mettre sur pied un gouvernement central digne de ce nom. Il est même étonnant d'entendre celui qui est considéré comme le plus extrémistes, Cheikh Dahir Aways, déclarer sur la BBC que les tribunaux islamiques sont prêts à accepter la mise en place d'un gouvernement laïc si tel est le désir des Somaliens. Une concession impensable sous d'autres cieux. L'instauration de la paix civile et la lutte contre les actes de piraterie maritime dont la communauté internationale avait grandement besoin sont à mettre à l'actif des Tribunaux Islamiques. D'autre part, la décision louable de ne pas mettre en place un gouvernement alors qu'ils contrôlent la capitale entièrement et le fait de reconnaître le Gouvernement de Baidoa comme seul gouvernement légitime sont des gestes de sagesse.

 

Avec l'aura grandissante des Tribunaux islamiques qui ont débarrassé la Somalie des warlords, le Gouvernement Fédéral Somalien de Transition s'est recroquevillé à Baidoa, 250 kilomètres au Sud de Mogadiscio déchiré par d'interminables conflits internes et espérant une hypothétique force d'intervention africaine.

 

Mais il est fort à craindre que celle-ci n'aggrave la situation surtout lorsque l'on sait que les armées africaines ont des moyens très limités et vu l'impuissance de la plus puissante armée du monde à ramener la paix dans ce pays ravagé par la guerre depuis quinze ans. Pas de place donc pour les apprentis sorciers.

[Abu-Salman]

deleted

[Abu-Salman]

I shall attempt a modest rendering of the aforementioned article:

 

 

Islamic Courts Union

 

Beyond prejudices

 

 

After a brief recapitulation on GI's fiasco as well as the ill-fated UN mission, the article exposes the Warlords abject imposture in their "abrupt discovery of entire terrorist divisions" in Somalia, at the precise moment when their interests were finally challenged after 15 years of chaos.

 

Then, it alludes to certain regional capitals determined not to let a stable Somalia emerges again and their concomitant unholy alliance with Mogadishu’s criminal warlords.

 

By the same token, it highlights the popular support enjoyed by the courts, alongside their impressive record of achievements in such a short period, as illustrated by the massive Diaspora member’s influx.

 

Little doubt, therefore, that the effective clamp-down on piracy, in conjunction with the renewed civil peace, will significantly appeal to a frustrated international community, as judiciously noted by the journalist.

 

Another not less significant tour-de-force, to the courts credit, is the latest announcement of a forthcoming national consultation in order to negociate a government worth its salt, an initiative unanimously hailed by prominent Somali intellectuals and academicians across the world.

 

The article also stress the constant moderation displayed by the courts from the inception of the popular uprising, not least by Sheikh Aweys, allegedly one of the most "extremists", but who announced on the BBC that the ICU was prepared to accept a secular government, should Somalis decide so.

 

Effectively, they didn't hesitate to offer their full unconditional recognition to the TFG despite their overwhelming superiority on the local ground, and the capital in their hands, while proclaiming their eagerness to let Somalis engineer their own future.

 

Indeed, the dissimilarity with a TFG whose officials only agree to disagree, while relying increasingly on foreign forces, now African Union deployment, could hardly be more flagrant.

 

Finally, the writer express his scepticism vis-à-vis a notoriously obstreperous AU were it to attempt any deluded,incongruous and most unwelcome adventure where the superpower’s troops retreated from...