Somali Weyn - Realistic Vision or Idealistic Dream?

[Warmoog]

Politics is very much a part of Somali life, in the sense that it often finds a way to permeate our lives - regardless of whether we choose to get involved in it or not. Considering Somalia's present situation, I think people should seriously and sincerely consider every possible situation that could bring peace to all Somali people (not just those in their region), even if it conflicts with their own views on how Somalia ought to be. To often, we let a few individuals speak for the majority of us. But people owe it to themselves to question everything and come to their own conclusions, because it's when we let others think and speak for us that we become truly hopeless.

 

Moving on...

 

I've heard the issue of "Somali Weyn" mentioned time and time again. Many people support it for the sake of nationalism, but I think it deserves a closer look. I love the idea of an ideal state for all Somali-speaking people. But, unfortunately, a certain ideal isn't always attainable. And in the case of "Somali Weyn", it never was... but that's just my view. Now, before any "Somali Weyn" fanatics jump on me for saying that, I have a series of questions for you to think about...

 

1. Firstly, as the concept of "Somali Weyn" is related to that of borders, how could we possibly regain Ogade.nia and NFD? Since neither Ethiopia nor Kenya seem likely to simply hand those regions over, is this an issue people are willing to eventually go to war over again (if need be)?

 

2. If yes, then is it right to have Somali people fighting and dying for lines drawn on a map by the same colonialists whom they fought and died to get rid of in the first place? If no, then are we abandoning our brothers and sisters (in Kenya and Ethiopia) in their time of need?

 

3. To take the opposite stance, why are their fights any of our business? If they want to be separate from those two countries, isn't that something they should attain on their own? I'm not saying they should be left for slaughter at the hands of foreigners, but rather - do we (those of us from "Somalia") have a right to speak for them?

 

4. If Somalia remains in its current fragmentation, and even if those regions were given back, what would Somali Kenyans and Ethiopians have to return to? Isn't it more beneficial for them to fight for independent nations - separate from Ethiopia, Kenya, and Somalia?

 

5. How could Djibouti be brought into the fold? Unlike Somaliland, Djibouti was never part of "Somalia". And, unlike Somalis in Kenya and Ethiopia, its people have a distinctly Djiboutian identity and have never expressed an interest to be a part of Somalia since their independence.

 

6. Let's assume donkeys took flight and Djibouti joined Somalia. What would happen to the Afar currently inhabiting Djibouti? Would Somalis - who express pride in their seemingly homogeneous society, having a common ancestor, etc. (even though it's not true) - be willing to tolerate a non-Somali minority? And why would the Afar want to join Somalia, when they wouldn't even stand for their former colony to be called French Somalia?

 

7. Should we learn a lesson from the former Arab colonies? Once the Europeans left, most of them stayed separate (even though the majority of Arabs - like Somalis - share the same language, religion, culture, etc.) and that seems to have worked well. Meanwhile, the ones that got back together ended up in civil war... sound familiar? My question here being - could different/independent Somali states live as neighbours, like the Arab countries?

 

8. What is wrong with accepting separatism, specifically in the case of Somaliland (considering it's been separate for 13 years)? And are anti-separatists using "Somali Weyn" as an excuse to hold onto that region?

 

9. On the other hand, if separatism is accepted in the case of Somaliland, what about other regions that might break away in the future? Which state(s) should be independent (if any) and who decides?

 

10. Is "Somali Weyn" a realistic concept? Or is it an idealistic dream that was shattered long before civil wars and, in fact, before independence (i.e. when colonialists gave Somali regions to Kenya and Ethiopia)?

 

11. Lastly, what is the point in chasing this dream of "Somali Weyn", if it's not going to ensure peace? And if peace and unity are not going to be attained simultaneously, then which should we choose?

 

Now if you still support "Somali Weyn" 100%, read the questions again. But if you're having doubts, then welcome to the world of realists...

 

 

Salaamz.

[Baashi]

I am realist and I am for Somali-Weyn. It appears that the poster divides the nomads between realist (those open to new solutions such as secession) and those living under the dangerous illusion of idealism (those who advocate for the unity of Somalis).

 

Nothing wrong with that except it is just an opinion. Opinions can be wrong and opinions also vary since reasonable people can sometimes disagree on issues under discussion. However, under close scrutiny, the logic (or the lack thereof) behind these arguments and opinions become clear.

 

First in order to clear up any misconceptions about the terms (“Somali Weyn”, separatism) used in this post, we should at least agree on their meaning in the context of Somalia and Somalis.

 

Separatism! What does that mean? I don’t know about the poster’s understanding on this term in the Somali context but mine is this: a group characterized by bigoted adherence to factional/tribal viewpoint want to secede from the rest of Somalis.

 

What do we mean by “Somali-Weyn”, the term? My understanding of it is that this concept is simple and noble one. It says ethnic Somalis, no matter where they reside, are citizens of the republic of Somalia. It promotes, by legal means, the union of the all Somali territories. We are not claiming sovereignty over the adjacent Somali territories (Ogade.ia, NFD). However, we would like to see the fellow Somalis living in them be granted the right of self-determination so they will have an opportunity to decide for themselves what their status would be. How, when, and what cost are all valid questions that needs to be worked out.

 

It should be noted that Somalis in Djibouti share the country with Anfar. Splitting a city-state such as Djibouti is not a priority to us considering the fact that: they are free from subjugation, the French factor, and the Ethiopian claim over Anfar as ethnic Ethiopian. I think it is a good compromise.

 

That is, in a nutshell, what the Somali-weyn camp is advocating for. This view is distinctly different than the clannish, partisan and separatist viewpoint that holds peace in Somalia requires a disjunction of some regions from the Somalia that once existed.

 

One thing is clear and that is as of today we are not in a position to realize these aspirations. Tomorrow, as always, is another day. Today peace, reconciliation, reconstruction, and rehabilitation are the priorities we need to focus on. Once the former state gets recuperated, the ideas brought forward by Somali-weyn can be examined and if deemed valid it can be adopted as national foreign policy.

 

Now, Yasmine has asked us 11 questions! Or did she? The last sentence makes all her inquiries like a speech punctuated by rhetorical questions. For one thing, she is wrong to lump Somali-weyn as idealist and the secessionist as realists. Both groups have not succeeded in attaining their goals yet. What makes one idealist and the other realist?

 

On a second look, Somali-weyn camps are the realists here. Even though the former republic had disintegrated into fiefdoms based on the support of the local clans, still in the eyes of the African neighbors and in fact in the eyes of international community Somalia is a failed state whose territorial integrity is sacrosanct.

 

The burden of dismantling the territorial integrity of this failed State proved to be a tall order for secessionist. If anyone is under illusion, in my humble opinion, the secessionist are; the ones whose case rests on the colonial legacies in the distant past and transgressions committed by regime that is no longer in power.

 

It is pertinent to note that the very justifications that is used to dismember the Somalia that once existed, the same can be used to divide the would-be seceded states. Thus the reality of: if Somalia is divisible so is the fiefdoms that will be erected from the ashes of the former state.

 

Having said that, I should note one important imperative that anti-secessionist always insists on but gets lost in the argument when polemicist get excited. And that is peace within the Somalia is the first milestone that we should all worked toward. Then and only then can we implement our collective national aspirations whatever they may be.

 

If you insist that Somali-weyn camp are idealists because we would like to see Somalis unite and the ones under foreign occupation attain the freedom they yearn for, so be it.

[Warmoog]

Originally posted by Baashi:

It appears that the poster divides the nomads between realist... and those living under the dangerous illusion of idealism...

Firstly, I didn't divide anyone into anything. The one instance I so much as used the terms "idealistic" and "realistic" together was in question 11, which asks the reader: Is "Somali Weyn" a realistic concept? Or is it an idealistic dream...? Now, if this were a statement as opposed to a question then maybe your claim of me ‘dividing nomads’ would be true. But in reality, the reason why I posted questions (rather statements) was to provoke thought about these issues and let readers come to their own conclusions.

 

Originally posted by Baashi:

Separatism… a group characterized by bigoted adherence to factional/tribal viewpoint want to secede from the rest of Somalis.

I wasn’t aware that English words took on a whole new meaning in the ‘context of Somalia’. The generic definition I had in mind for separatist was "one who advocates disjunction of a group from a larger group or political unit". Based on your definition of the term, you seem to be characterizing separatists as adherers to factional/tribal viewpoints. But, in all fairness, this could be said of many Somalis (regardless of whether they support Somali Weyn or separatism). I could be wrong though, but that’s a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by Baashi:

If you insist that Somali-weyn camp are idealists...

Again, I did no such thing. The last remarks in the post were: Now if you still support "Somali Weyn" 100%, read the questions again. But if you're having doubts, then welcome to the world of realists... This where you seem to think I divided nomads, so I’ll try to clear things up. In the context of this discussion, I suspect the motives of anyone who supports separatism or Somali Weyn 100%, without ever experiencing doubts or trying to understand the other party. I hate to be repetitive but, if you recall, in the original post I wrote something like… bearing in mind Somalia's present situation, I think people should seriously and sincerely consider every possible situation that could bring peace to all Somali people (not just those in their region), even if it conflicts with their own views on how Somalia ought to be.

 

People can hold whatever political views they like, but they should also do their utmost to understand their political or ideological opponents… especially when those ‘opponents’ are their fellow countrymen. I think those who support Somali Weyn should at least try to understand where the separatists are coming from and what’s driven them to such drastic measures. They should do so seriously and sincerely, without being too quick to judge or label people as adhering to tribal this and tribal that. And separatists should do the very same. The 11 questions were meant to be objective, but the other contents of the post were based on my opinion. I wasn’t trying to label anyone as this or that… if I’d meant to, it would have been stated clearly.

 

Salaamz.

[LANDER]

YASMINE,

you are among the few people in this forum not poisoned by politics and who still have enough "claire-voyance" to reason logically on matters that most people do not have the courage to. That being said, I must warn you that the most of the people who will respond to your logical and realist questioning are completelly submerged in their own closed minded ideals. In other words they can't seem to see beyond the tip of their nose. If you try to be objective and realistic about situations, they will submerge you and draw you into their petty political views.

Case in point, just look at the response given to you by the above Nomad. Baashi, Garyaaqaan , Samurai, myself etc.. Have been this route before in other threads and believe me I share your view points on understanding one another, but you see most people here cannot rise above their limited views even on the most basic of topics. Nevertheless, I have to applaud your efforts as you put your arguments forward very clearly and with alot of forethought which I think many of us lack. I just hope for your sake you get responses that are equally forethoughtful.

 

Bravo once again

[Baashi]

^^According to LANDER, those who can articulate a diametrically opposed position on the secession are “completelly submerged in their own closed minded ideals” and they just “ can't seem to see beyond the tip of their nose” Don’t look very far, he said, “just look at the response given to you by the above Nomad”. That would be me. Very clever! What does he said about the topic other than applauding for some and condemning others, nada! There we go again sxb.

 

Back to the topic and sis Yasmine,

 

Walaal it is very nice of you if you want to induce nomads to engage a “thought-provoking” discussion. I welcome the challenge. Reading your posts, I think you are a good addition to the SOL nomads and I’m really looking forward yet another mind stimulating post from you.

 

However, the inherent logic of your line of reasoning in this post is bit fussy as it renders the “Somali Weyn” adherents a supporters devoid of practical considerations on the grounds of them not being doubtful of what they stand for. Not to mention the didactic tone that you have adopted from the get go - read my delineations and if you experienced doubt, you will be welcomed to the world designated for realist! If you don’t, give another shot again.... you might come around as if the 11 enquiries covered the entire espectrum!

 

Implicit in this is that by merely doubting the cause one stands for one would be realistic. By logical extension, those who stand by their views, cause, conviction 100%, they are simply fanatics. As to the term (separatism), I defined, as I understood it in the Somali context. Even though we think in generalities, we live in details. This is about Somalia (specific) and groups are not any groups. Hence, generic definition taken off from the dictionary would not fit in all "contexts". That being said, groups should be spelled out; are they sectarian, ideological, ethnic, or are we dealing with tribal communities? I hope you now see where I was coming from. Am I wrong uttering the “tribal” viewpoint? Prove me wrong after all this is a “thought-provoking” discussion.

 

I have yet to see a serious nomad who takes “Somali weyn” doctrine on its merit and refutes it objectively if he opposes its tenets. Let me put the record straight at once. This concept is a relic in its origin. There is no organized “Somali Weyn” camp as far as I know. It is morally sound, unifying and empowering doctrine. It is not impediment to the peace process and the reconciliation effort. It has never been. It had failed once for a reason. It is worth studying what went wrong.

 

The practical considerations: Is it attainable? Yes. Not that I have done feasibility study myself but considering the multiethnic composition, abject poverty of the both countries in question, the recent history of the annexation, self-determination movement in Ethiopia, and our insistence on them, I concluded that it is a question of when. Is it difficult? Yes but it will need time and strong, unified Somali state. Are the recent setbacks in the Somalia that once existed reversible? Yes.

 

It has a merit. I’m very interested in listening to those who say otherwise. We can always explore the ways we can attain this noble goal once we settle whether it has merit or not. I’m 100% behind it and I will change my stand when I’m shown reason to not merely to get on board on the bandwagon that is headed to the realist world.

[Sirrus]

Salamu Alaykum

 

Yasmine, my sincere compliment on your efforts, it does take extensive courage to delve in this political topic that all so often pervades our thoughts. Without sounding like a nationalist “"Somali Weyn" fanatics” a vulture ready to “jump” on you, I have to be honest and agree that your post if not in content but in flavor is partisan. Perhaps your intention were not so, but your understanding of idealism seems flawed. Idealism as stated on the dictionary is “The act or practice of envisioning things in an ideal form.” , what in fact you did was propose a series of leading questions that obliterated the “ideal form”, in stating the many obstacles en- route to somalweyn. As they say in court “leading the witness” or in this case leading the audience, a cardinal talent if you ask me of a true writer. Then it comes to you as a surprise, that the likes of Bashi confront you, while the likes of Somalilander applaud you. For I have no idea why the later is so easily satisfied. I must digress, you are not the topic, I believe your topic was Somaliweyn and how was the idea viable.

 

Well the current reality is adamantly against the idea, and obstacles do exist, but you see that is the nature of idea and idealism, it exist and often comes true against all odds, but not without thorough labor. Somalis in my humble opinion never had a state nor a nation. What we had was a gift of very sophisticated piece of machinery beyond our time and capacity. The resultant state is all too obvious for you. The necessary steps that we leaped were the development of our own indigenous institutions. To the point where those exact institutions would be able to buffer the requirement of the modern world, mainly a modern state complete with its apparatus. The development of our own political institutions entailed the sophistication of the pre existing equilibrium, the transition of symbols of unity from the mid segments to overall group and the development of a sense of altruism toward the collective ie. Nationalism. At a historical stage where the truest enemy meant another Somali, we were lumped into arbitrary borders, of malicious kind. In fact many of the obstacles to Somalweyn you so feverishly listed were built with clear intention much like the rest of our victimized continent. Let me give you an another analogy, faith is based on the believe of the hereafter, if one was dismayed by the realistic view of the current world, a world where the faithful are subjected to cruelty, a world where mass of humans are suffering everywhere, where bad things are happing to good people, would the idea of hereafter and a fair, all aware all rectifying creator be a bleak. My point, it is not always beneficial to take the logical, rational REALISTIC way as the one and only answer. A believe i an idea tends to drive people much better toward a goal, however hard the road might be.

 

Walaykum a Salam

[Bokero]

Yasmine

 

Thanks for insightful and interesting set of questions.

I think your questions touch on fundamental questions that will face Somalia and Somalis after they stop butchering themselves. I will try to address your questions in general rather than chronologically.

 

I have always believed the Somali mind in large extent devoid of reason and more inclined to emotion and parochialism. Such state of mind is prone to shortermsim and tunnel visionary. You’re absolutely right in saying that the concept of Somaliweyn has been abused and in general has served as tool for clan hegemony. The pioneers of somaliweyn although noble and genuine were wrong I will come back to this later (unfortunately their noble concept also has come to represent a veiled attempt to dominate others.)

 

Let me now address the current realities in relation to Somalism.

The chances of constituting the five angles of the Somali star are non-existence and actually undesirable and dangerous. The reason being nationalism based on ethnicity is un- developmental, primitive and promotes exclusivity. Having said that I think once the region develops the Somali regions together with the rest of E. Africa will be brought together by economic reality. Nationalism is its source in protectionism, once economies of the region develop the borders will come down and governments will become redundant in favour of regional authorities mirroring the EU. In other words economics created nationalism and economics will destroy it.

 

Somaliland case..

Somaliland need to seceded I believe merely shows its under-development. Somaliland project represents the interest of the view ambitious politicians who manipulate the many into creating more layers of unnecessary bureaucracy. It’s uneconomical to want to break. And those who oppose secession are also motivated by veiled hegemonic ambitions.

 

In other words brothers and Sisters our debate on nationalism and secessionism are absolutely redundant in 21st century. If we want rapid development and prosperity nationalism and parochialism has no place in such an endeavour. In other words both somaliweyn and secessionism are outdated; regionalism and open borders are the future. But as Somalis we are always two centuries behind, I don’t understand why our minds are unable to jump an epoch to the present realities.

 

I believe our thought process for our regions should only be based on set of ideas that will bring peace and prosperity. Having thought about it I believe we should be encouraging regional integration that will see the borders between Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi and Sudan coming down.

 

I am may in danger of been accused of being a fantasist but this I believe is in the best interest of all and will bring about rapid development and prosperity while at the same time decreasing dangerous conflicts. This may be too much for many today but believe me its inevitable. In one words your current thinking is 100 years out of date and merely contributing to conflict while derailing the path to development.

[khadar01]

Thanks yasmin and everyone else for coming forward with a much thought of topic but never debated.i for one support of a unified somalia, whether we had such a thing is debatable.i would love to see a strong unified somali that includes ogden,NFD and djibouti.in today's world you can do much more with a unified somalia rather than otherwise.on the other hand let's be realistic before we talk about uniting the old five somalia.if and when we see united somalia i say if because there's being far too many damage to see a united somalia.there's no one tripe that's going to trust another.with that said how can we unite somalia? in my humble opinion let every region built their own goverment and be independant wether that be somaliland or puntland. then in the future may be we can come toghether and discuss unification.

[BEAU_MEC]

In an Ideal world Somaliweyn would be great. But this far from an ideal world and unfortunately the state of Somalia is long gone. I am all for any regions which have established peace through a single governement (preferbaly elected by the people) to go ahead and separate. Who knows what the future holds, when all regions of 'Somalia' are settled then, and only then can discussion on re-unification begin.

 

this is my humble opinion again

 

@+

[Viking]

I belong to the pessimistic camp when it comes to unifying Somalis under a nationalistic pretext. Loyalty to one's clan is far stronger than loyalty to one's country. In the pre-colonial era, Somalis never had demarcated territorial boundaries and felt free to move with their livestock wherever there was pasture and water. The different clans lived in areas traditionally known to be theirs though other clans could trespass or settle there in case of necessity such as draught. Clan wars over i.e. livestock were a common thing and, eventually, the colonialists scrumble for Africa led to the spread of Somalis to different countries.

 

Somalis never had nationalistc ideas until the late forties and the British govt was on record to have held a meeting for all Somali leaders and elders at WalWal in 1943 with the aim of trying to sell them the idea of greater Somali but they rejected it.

 

If Somalis are to live under one flag, I would hope that it is under the banner of Islam (and not within a trade union with its neighbours as the above poster has stipulated). For Islam is the remedy to all the ilnesses including clanism which is the clear obstacle that could derail any plans for peace and unification.

[Ace of Spadez]

simply put its idealistic. somaliland has a better chance of recognition.

[Jacaylbaro]

so, what was the discussion about ??

[Fabregas]

Forgot Somaliweyn. We will make Islamweyn in the whole of the horn including Somaliland, Puntland and any other lands. Ila Mombasa Ila Asmara.

[Wigad]

Good idea geel jire Islamweyn existed once why not again.

[Jacaylbaro]

I'm with you on this ,,,,, let's create Islamweyn