somali christians

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Northerner:

quote: But even if you're right, so what? What exactly do you hope to achieve with such stat?

To prove my earlier point which you contested?

Good then, otherwise I would've held your feet to the fire.

 

 

ps those stats are bogus

Yes, they're still bogus. My last post shows incontestable evidence to the contrary. What do you have to say about that?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by AAliyah416:

i am not sure i can tolerate an individual who calls emself somali yet claims to be christian :confused:

Then, to call you religious bigot is more than fair. Not much different from Islamophobe or anti-semite.

[N.O.R.F]

What is it with you and anything involving Islam and Muslims? You spit your dummy out as sson as you see a thread. Take some time out, travel a little, read a little and learn a little.

 

Its one thing being anti-islam/muslims but its another when its all based on 'what i heard' scenario.

 

I will conclude our little discusion and shall waste no more time such petulant and inconsistant 'babbling'.

 

peace and out

[Che -Guevara]

^^^^^LooooL He finally got to you. Never seen losing it buddy.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Northerner:

What is it with you and anything involving Islam and Muslims?

 

What is it to you? Why should it matter at all? Be honest with us, if you were winning this sub-debate, would you have asked the same question? I think nooooooooot! You're quibbling.

 

 

Its one thing being anti-islam/muslims but its another when its all based on 'what i heard' scenario.

 

To call me anti-Islam/muslim is to call me a bigot, which is a slur. I'll let it slip this time, taking into consideration your fragile state of mind.

 

But I gotta ask, why did you seek me out and respond to one of my posts? You made a specious claim, I've taken you to task and you reply to the evidence and arguements I presented with puerile antics and slurs. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

 

 

I will conclude our little discusion and shall waste no more time such petulant and inconsistant 'babbling'.

Blah, blah, blah... run away!

[N.O.R.F]

^^calm down now Homer, lets take a closer look at your stats. How do you define an increase? Not in percentage terms but by sheer numbers. Going by percentage increases is a manipulation of the truth Mr babbler. Sheer numbers is what we need to consider here but I know it doesn’t suit your current stance. But get a load of this, babble.

 

According to your stats babbler, this is how the following should read when percentages are not considered.

 

Buddhism + 681,000

Islam + 577,000

Hinduism + 539,000

Native American Religion + 56,000

Bahia + 56,000

New Age + 48,000

Sikhism + 44,000

Deity + 43,000

 

It would be really interesting to see today's picture as these figures are pre-2000.

 

As I’m sure you know if one starts a new religion today, tomorrow it will grow by 100% when a new member joins. But lets look at numbers, the increases are significant in the USA towards Islam, which I believe is predominantly due to an increase in white/black ‘Americans’ embracing Islam together with a fewer number in immigrants. I believe the contrary with regard to Hinduism and Buddhism where much of the increase, i believe, is due to the immigrants coming to America rather than people embracing a new religion. Ie the proportion of people (Americans) embracing is far lower than the proportion of immigrants - the opposite of the increase in Islam. Now, if my notion is incorrect (and i'm quiet sure it is correct) why would this be overlooked by the sources i posted earlier? Why are they not using your stats? Are you going to tell me those media quotes are due to a pro-Islam view?

 

Therefore, my previous assertions with regard to more westerners accepting Islam, I believe, is only proved right by the stats you provided.

 

A higher number of westerners are accepting Islam compared to other religions was my initial point.

 

Now this debate can veer into percentages vs numbers or whether we should debate religious increases with regard to immigrants.

 

Its your choice Mr 'yippee i've won'

 

ps Yo-yo, its what i call a brick wall syndrome, bang your head enough times and your bound to lose it

 

babble away

 

ps can you reply to a whole post as opposed to quoting a line here and a line there? Its quite tedious reading your replies.

[Lake]

homer DEFINITELY has an agenda...I think I know what it is but is pointless to discuss it

[Ibtisam]

^^^lool

 

This is getting old. Somali's like all other nations, have self confessed atheists, Christians, and any other religion they choose to follow. A religion is something you choose to believe and follow, not something that is exclusive with being a Somali. I have personally met 2Somali non Muslims, one Christian and one atheist. They are normal people, like me and you but with different believe. I don't see why we should be shocked or treat them any different than other non Muslim people we meet in our everyday life.

 

People changing religion is a common thing and happens all the time. The prophet (BPUH) said that someone can wake up as a Muslim and die as non-believer and visa verse, or live their whole life as a Muslim and die in the state of kufur, again visa verse. So I don’t know why people are surprised.

 

In any case we all come across, people who have very questionable characteristic or in compromising situations which take them out of the fold of Islam, which again shows that being a Muslim is not a so straight forward.

[Som@li]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

quote:Originally posted by Dabshid:

THere are some somalis who are christians, some were born christians and some converted.

 

Fpr example,

Micheal Maryama was somali christian and the same time somali hero.

 

So i don;t see what is the surprise.You don;t to be a Muslim to be a somali.

How do you expect people to know who he was, saaxib? I mean there is no Wikipedia entry for him.

we should make entery for him, and others then, it is sad most somalis don;t know much abt their history..

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Northerner:

How do you define an increase?

 

We were talking about growth rate so we can get to the bottom of whether your claim that Islam is fastest growing religion in the West has any merit to it. Now your obfuscating things by quibbling over the definition of increase, which was never a subject of this discussion. Growth rates are generally presented as percentage of increase.

 

I selected the US as an example to refute your claim. Prominently because we have impartial data we can use to settle this debate.

 

Now, you're quite right in that there is more than one way to show the growth of a religion: raw numbers (or integers) and percentage increase. Since you haven't challenged my post where I showed Islam is 8th or 9th fastest growing religion in the US percentage wise, I'm assuming you accept it's validity. With that out of the way, I'll now show even when we rely on the raw numbers, in the case of the States, Islam still lags behind it terms of growth. In fact, non-religious or secular are by far the fastest growing -- adding 1.4 million new adherents a year.

 

For example, secular/irreligious numbered 13,116,000 in 1990. In 2001, their ranks swelled to 27,539,000. That's a 110% increase or 14,423,000 in raw numbers (1.4 million/year). Conversely, in the same time period Islam grew from mere 527,000 to 1,104,000. Again, it's percentage is nearly identical to secular/irreligious with 109% increase. But added only 577,000 or 57k/year. Intrestingly, Budhism comes ahead of Islam if we go by raw numbers with 681000 new comers in the same time period.

 

 

Going by percentage increases is a manipulation of the truth Mr babbler.

 

 

You don't know what you're talking about. There's no manipulation involved; percentage increase convey different meaning from raw number increases.

 

 

It would be really interesting to see today's picture as these figures are pre-2000.

 

Get a reliable stats and we'll go over them. Till then, we just do by with what we got.

 

 

which I believe is predominantly due to an increase in white/black ‘Americans’ embracing Islam together with a fewer number in immigrants.

 

 

It's mainly due to immigration.

 

 

 

Now, if my notion is incorrect (and i'm quiet sure it is correct) why would this be overlooked by the sources i posted earlier? Why are they not using your stats? Are you going to tell me those media quotes are due to a pro-Islam view?

 

Like I said earlier, you're bird-brained about this whole subject. We first got some hints of your unlettered status in this subject when you posted some off-topic posts talking about Christianity being false or some shid alike. That was a real head-turner alright... I mean, what is Christianity's untenability as a doctrine doing in a debate about whether Islam is fastest growing religion in the West? Not to leave out, there's your penchant for ad hominem attacks on your sparring partners anytime you feel the heat around the corner. Now, you want to us to take quotes from hodgepodge of news outlets as authoritative source in place of real stats? Really, your benighted status in this subject leaves you unprepared and at a disadvantage. Come back when your erudition is fastest growing in the subject (pun fully intended).

[N.O.R.F]

Since you haven't challenged my post where I showed Islam is 8th or 9th fastest growing religion in the US percentage wise, I'm assuming you accept it's validity.

Validity accepted, percentage increases have very little bearing on the big picture. An increase of some 500,000+ is more meaningful than100%+ increases in other religions but with only 60,000+ increases in number. You comprehend what I’m getting at? You are depending on percentages increase rather than sheer numbers as it suits your current stance. Hence why you are pushing for it and hence why Islam is the fasting growing ‘religion’ being 'embraced' in numbers rather than due to a huge increase in immigration during the late 90s.

 

For example, secular/irreligious numbered 13,116,000 in 1990. In 2001, their ranks swelled to 27,539,000. That's a 110% increase or 14,423,000 in raw numbers (1.4 million/year). Conversely, in the same time period Islam grew from mere 527,000 to 1,104,000. Again, percentage it's nearly identical to secular/irreligious with 109% increase. But added only 577,000 or 57k/year. Intrestingly, Budhism comes ahead of Islam if we go by raw numbers with 681000 new comers in the same time period.

Secular and ‘irreligious’ are not religions and thus is not used when commenting upon religious trends. Only you would think secularism and ‘irreligious’ are religions. When someone on the street tells you hes an atheist would take that as a religion. Your deposit is rejected due to weak credit.

 

Budhism comes ahead of Islam if we go by raw numbers with 681000 new comers in the same time period.

Mainly due to immigrants

 

You don't know what you're talking about. There's no manipulation involved; percentage increase convey different meaning from raw number increases.

The different meaning is misleading whereas sheer numbers represent the ‘true’ picture. An increase of hundreds can mean a 200% increase whereas an increase in the hundred thousands is only 50%+. You get the picture babbler. It also suits your current stance so I would stick by the percentages.

 

I mean, what is Christianity's untenability as a doctrine doing in a debate about whether Islam is fastest growing religion in the West?

The reasons why so many Christians are embracing Islam? Did that get passed you? Or are simply not willing to acknowledge it?

 

Now, you want to us to take quotes from hodgepodge of news outlets as authoritative source in place of real stats?

Yes, but get this SB, the media sources are using the same stats but in addition they are using my philosophy of sheer numbers representing more of an accurate picture in-lieu of percentages.

 

Looks like you sticking to your percentages argument, I cant blame as pride is something you seem enjoy having.

 

I have caught your tedious bug

[Captain Xalane]

To sum it all up,whats ur point socod badne?U asserted a rhetorical question and up til now nobody answered it including urself,and this would further lead to other questions.Can u answer ur question? :rolleyes:

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Northerner:

An increase of some 500,000+ is more meaningful than100%+ increases in other religions but with only 60,000+ increases in number.

 

It all depends what you use them for. A 100% increase tells us that whatever is being measured doubled it's numbers, triple it's numbers by increasing 200%.

 

 

Hence why you are pushing for it and hence why Islam is the fasting growing ‘religion’ being 'embraced' in numbers rather than due to a huge increase in immigration during the late 90s.

 

I'm not pushing for anything. In fact, in my last post I dropped the percentage figures and used raw numbers instead. You're still wrong by saying Islam is fastest growing religion in America. Secular/non-religious, Budhism and Christianity are all ahead of it relying strictly on raw numbers.

 

 

Secular and ‘irreligious’ are not religions and thus is not used when commenting upon religious trends. Only you would think secularism and ‘irreligious’ are religions.

 

First, the survey classifies this category as Secular/non-religious, not irreligious. My fault. And yes, secular/non-religious is considered religion. They're secular Christians, jews, muslims, Hindus etc. You don't get to define what people consider themselves.

 

 

An increase of hundreds can mean a 200% increase whereas an increase in the hundred thousands is only 50%

 

Exactly! Percentages tell us growth with respect to initial size. So a population that grew 200%, increased by multiple of 3.

 

 

Looks like you sticking to your percentages argument, I cant blame as pride is something you seem enjoy having.

Ok, I've shown using sheer numbers, Islam isn't fastest growing religion. It's only 5th. Even your phoney sheer numbers stats you presented show Budhism ahead of Islam. So what exactly have you shown hitherto other than you don't know shid from shinola?

 

Sheer numbers or percentages, you can't present a single reliable data showing Islam is fastest growing religion in the US. And that, my friend, has been your perennial achilles heel in this entire debate. Oblivious to you, very obvious to everyone else.

[N.O.R.F]

^^briefly read what you have just written so excuse me if i miss a babble or two,,,,,

 

Secularism/irreligious does not bare any increase as the people are simply not practicing. How does that have a bearing on the figures? Someone who calls himself secular (ie not practicing) does not increase the numbers in another religion. They simply stay as they are (according to the stats). You get it? So you can discount that one.

 

As i said the increases in Buddism i believe is due to to the high immigration of the late nineties (the doctors/nurses/taxi drivers).

 

After Buddism comes Islam. The increases are due to more americans embracing Islam than immigrants coming to america.

 

When you use numbers Islam is second to Buddism (due to more Immigrants) and not 5th when you disrgard secularism/irreligious as they are not seperate religions but rather people simply not practicing their faiths.

 

Your getting boring SB, your clinging onto lifelines now

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Northerner:

Secularism/irreligious does not bare any increase as the people are simply not practicing. How does that have a bearing on the figures?

 

They do because they're part of the survey. But lets for agruements sake drop them from the list, that means Islam moves up one slot to 4th. Not second. Here are the facts:

 

From 1990 to 2001

 

-Christianity increased by 7 million from 151,225,000 to 159,030,000

 

-Budhism increased by a whopping 600k from 401,000 to 1,082,000

 

-Hinduism increased by 500k from 227,000 to 766,000.

 

source

 

 

As i said the increases in Buddism i believe is due to to the high immigration of the late nineties (the doctors/nurses/taxi drivers).

 

This would be true for Islam as well. Tens of thousands of Somali muslims moved to the US in the 90s. Shouldn't they count too?

 

 

When you use numbers Islam is second to Buddism (due to more Immigrants) and not 5th when you disrgard secularism/irreligious as they are not seperate religions but rather people simply not practicing their faiths.

 

You're using wrong numbers here pal. They're not from any source I gave.

 

 

Your getting boring SB, your clinging onto lifelines now

Small minds tend to get bored easily.