Strangeness and the Strangers; random thoughts

[Saqajaan]

xinfanin

 

I'm a bro, and I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. You're being too much of an idealist expecting too much from people. Human beings are not perfect, and there will never be a perfect ummah.

[xiinfaniin]

Hayyam, that's what i am talking about? The manners, which is Islams basic teachings are sadly missing. This is not generalizing runtii...i have seen this many times.

 

Warmonger, it seems to me you've deliberately decided to be difficult here. We are not talking about perfectionism and what have you. I am asking why it's so difficulty for people to get organized and repair their broken sewages, clean their streets, or take care of the piling trashes in their neighborhood. Dont tell me its lack of resouces or time for the ones i saw have blenty of both in their hands.

 

You travel from Nairobi to Garisa, and one the remarkable alerts that indicates you entered Somali territory is the rubbish you see in the streets. The poor Kenyans have their little villages clean adeer...why? I was told the same thing in Boosaaso and Xamar. Why?

[N.O.R.F]

I would agree with most of what is being said. Spend a few years in the ME and you will become accustomed to it after the initial shock. Not a week goes by where I don't tell someone to get to the back of the queue or aad la yaabtid just how people are behaving. Most are somewhat surprised.

 

You wonder just where you are sometimes: eek:

 

Oman on the other hand was and is a great place.

 

Its temporary I guess,,,

[xiinfaniin]

Northern, did you say your expereince in Oman was different? Tell us more about it bro.

[N.O.R.F]

It was saxib. Nothing but good things to say about that place and it's people. Too bad it's not developing as much. Will get back later IA. Time to weave through traffic, flash lights, cut people off and beep the horn a few times.

[xiinfaniin]

^^lool. drive safe my man.

[Naden]

Interesting topic, Xiin. Will be back to comment.

[Caano Geel]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

You travel from Nairobi to Garisa, and one the remarkable alerts that indicates you entered Somali territory is the rubbish you see in the streets. The poor Kenyans have their little villages clean adeer...why? I was told the same thing in Boosaaso and Xamar. Why?

I don't think that your being idealistic and you bring up a very interesting issue. In truth you don't need to travel to Boosaaso to see the worst in our life styles ... as any londoners who have seen kentish town's marfiish mafia could testify

 

what you bring up here are cultural norms, that take time and willingness to build from moral to personal nadaafad- we would do well to look around.

 

Interestingly xiin how compelled do you feel to enforce social norms, i.e. do you always play by the book?

[Gheelle.T]

I think it has a lot to do with cultures than say religion. Most of Muslim communities are really ignorant about their religion and adhere more to their cultures...So, some of the akhlaaqaat and manners we are talking about here are alien to some cultures and they don't really look back to the religion to find out how important these things are.

 

As for the cleanliness, dadki wax kala hadla ayaaba iska yar, Culluma iyo Caammaba.

[Gheelle.T]

CG, you raise a good question brother. How do you indeed enforce or change a social norm? How do you tell some1 to use a hygiene products for instant(deodorant, perfume, or cologne)? with out provocations or hurting his/her feelings? How can you change all those bad manners, skipping que to way to talk to people?...I think it has to start from home and slowly go place to place...

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by Caano Geel:

quote:Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

You travel from Nairobi to Garisa, and one the remarkable alerts that indicates you entered Somali territory is the rubbish you see in the streets. The poor Kenyans have their little villages clean adeer...why? I was told the same thing in Boosaaso and Xamar. Why?

I don't think that your being idealistic and you bring up a very interesting issue. In truth you don't need to travel to Boosaaso to see the worst in our life styles ... as any londoners who have seen kentish town's marfiish mafia could testify

 

what you bring up here are cultural norms, that take time and willingness to build from moral to personal nadaafad- we would do well to look around.

 

Interestingly xiin how compelled do you feel to enforce social norms, i.e. do you always play by the book?

So I guess YOUR not in big brother, then, lol

[Caano Geel]

^^ i'm just moonlighting here, i'm due in the diary room any time now, it's a secret, Davina does not tell you that we have internet access at the house

 

Originally posted by Gheelle.T:

CG, you raise a good question brother. How do you indeed enforce or change a social norm? How do you tell some1 to use a hygiene products for instant(deodorant, perfume, or cologne)? with out provocations or hurting his/her feelings? How can you change all those bad manners, skipping que to way to talk to people?...I think it has to start from home and slowly go place to place...

'ello. i don't know if there is a sure proof way, but notions of shame, guilt and etc .. are societies general methods of enforcing collective norms.

[xiinfaniin]

Caano, personally I am considerate person (if I am inline for something, and elderly Caano shows up, I would most likely yield and give up my spot), my weakness is that I expect people would play by the books…I can easily be disappointed.

 

In a more serious note, Islam and the values it espouses are missing, if you pardon my generilzation today, in the muslim life. The real irony is a lot of what Islam teaches in terms of fair dealings and tolerance is present in the west---another generalization.

 

i understand some people may fail to resist the urge to critique at the unattractive trends in the west. But that's really missing the point. To be honest i don’t like the direction this thread is heading; lets not focus on personal nadafaad, please. Lets talk about mucaamalaat, common good, and social responsibility, tolerance or at least creating a perception of tolerance...what Islam breaches, and how we behave.

 

Why people can’t take care of their qashin for instance-- and this is more than personal nadaafad mind you, most somalis are good at taking care of themselves, any way. In Nairobi i saw this elegant building going up owned by some xawaalah company, but piles of garbages surround it, and no one seems to care. Perhaps it’s local authority that should’ve picked up the garbage and cleared the streets, but if they are not doing it as it’s apparent, some one tell me why these business men see no need to finance garbage pick up mashruuc. One doctor brother i talked, who regularly goes to Bosaso, told me that people feel no responsibility for doing for these types of things. His prime example was the garbage issue. The other thing he told me was that there is about 15km distance between the new airport and the city, and it’s very rough road. In his estimation few businessmen could build that road if they wanted to but obviously they don’t care. Extortion it seems is the only way known to Somalis, and authorities everywhere use it to fetch revenue to sustain their localities. I think I am veering off topic, but the point I was trying to make is it’s not the jalbaab or the beard or the short trousers that’s strange. What is strange is entire societies being agnostic to the very values they claim to desire in their political outlook. That’s why I liked CRaxman’s lecture (it’s called ghurbatul islam, if anyone is interested).

 

Nadaneey, sidaadii wax soo hurguf , this time we'll take it IA.

[Cara.]

^CG, and if they didn't have internet access I'm sure you could get a connection using burnt toast, dental floss and bubble gum

 

Xiin, these are also more or less very random thoughts that have very tenuous connections.

 

Markets are not as bad as they would seem, despite all the noise and hubbub. A market place is where a merchant, artisan or other individual seller displays their wares with often no middleman between seller and buyer. They are far more "human" than Wal-Mart or other big box stores in which clean aisles, endless packaging and matching uniforms remove the consumer from a real perception of the true cost of that shirt/toy/etc made in China. In a marketplace there's no such thing as a marked price, everything is negotiable because the seller is actually aware of the value of their product and can see a clear link between selling it at a certain price and feeding their family. Compare that to the indifferent cashier at a store for whom there's no real connection between their take-home pay and the disposal camera beside the cash register.

 

Lining up in queues is a peculiarly Western obsession, maybe it comes from the Roman emphasis on military orderliness... Apparently even the Chinese are unfamiliar with the concept, and had to practice for the Olympics in Beijing! There's no denying that queuing is a necessity of the modern world though.

 

As for the neglect and destruction of public spaces, I think this stems in part from our nomadic roots. Permanent settlements are still new to us. We are used to grazing our animals in a tract of land until all the grass is gone, and then moving on to the next field. When we returned the next year the grass would be there again, and any waste generated was biodegradable for the most part. Even our presence is foreign countries is seen as a temporary exile, with no real sense of ownership for a flat in London or a hut in Garisa. Why should we care about the street outside a house we have no intention of passing on to our children? Environmentalism is often dismissed with a similar conviction that our presence is temporary. Why should we be concerned with the polar ice caps melting in 50 years if the world might not even be here next week?

[xiinfaniin]

^^I am loving the apparent reversal of our roles ya Cara !

 

I must say though I almost find myself agreeing with you on the first two assertions of your post. What holds me back is my conviction that Islam as a civilization does not approve our current status as Muslims. And if one deems that argument irrelevant, the intrusion of the more scathing fact is inescapable and that is the practices you cited and justified did not as of today lead to assessable progress in any aspect of our lives.

 

I will, as time permits come back and say more Insha Allah!