Which comes first? And when does the priority change? Can we ever trump the rights of the citizen to form a nation? Can we acquire a model nation state without first going through the requisite process of recognising its existence in the modern state stature sense, in other words without experimenting with ethno-state first, and then city state, and finally realising a nation state? It is an open field to all, but let us be serious, and see if we could familiarise ourselves with the concept of a nation state, and how modern states (successful ones) have come to be, and why the Somalis had failed in their quest - this far.

Carafaat;804343 wrote: Citizens form the nation. You mean the State or the nation? Thank you for indulging me. now, if there are no citizens in somalia, could there ever be the somalia we are all aspiring to?

I tell you what i will create a new thread for this conversation, if you do not mind. on second thought, let us not.

I am working towards the progression from ethno-states giving way to city states which gave birth to nation states.

thank you. And I will tell you, but first, let me ask you - who is more valuable the nation or the citizen?

No. what is a nation state? And how do you identify people with the political system? You can criticise Puntland till cows come home, and if your criticism is legitimate, then it is for the better, but if it is flawed, your argument must be questioned.

Could you read it again please? Carafaat There is the ideal (nation state), and then there is the ka badin waa (ethno-states). I am asking the questions because you come across as if fantasising about the concept of a nation state (desired) nas its citizenry (its make-up), to which you are attaching less value than the fantasy. You do not seem to mind condemning the citizen yet you are advocating for the nation. why? is your understanding of a nation state flawed? or are you so romantic at heart you fail to see the flaw in the logic. And 'ka badin waa' is when you do not or cannot have the optimum, in other words the reality on the ground. did that make sense? And please try a little bit of humility in your conversation unless of course you feel better conversing of and about minor quibbles. and if so, let us leave it there and not waste our time. be and let be.

Carafaat There is the ideal (nation state), and then there is the ka badin waa (ethno-states). I am asking the questions because you come across as if fantasising about the concept of a nation state (desired) nas its citizenry (its make-up), to which you are attaching less value than the fantasy. You do not seem to mind condemning the citizen yet you are advocating for the nation. why? is your understanding of a nation state flawed? or are you so romantic at heart you fail to see the flaw in the logic.

And the second part of the question. why are there clan states in somalia today? And how do you identify people with the political system?

naxdin badanaa. k.o.w xaajadii oo dhan ayaad kaadi la kor istaagtay. k.o.w occupation kan iyo waxaan aad ka hadlaysaa waa maxay? dad iyagiiba qaawan oo dibnihii qallaleen ayaad leedahay waxbay occupy gareeyeen. caqli yaridee ma shalay baad dhalatay?

Xaaji Xunjuf;804276 wrote: Reconciliation get rid of clan states let people get to know each other better and see the better side of each other. And last but not least a new war now needs to be fought this time not against a dictator or another clan or a neighboring country.But against poverty if you put that in practice than i am sure 65% of the trust will be re-gained Inshallah. Good starting point. what is a clan state? and why are there clan states in somalia today?

And how do you think trust could be re-gained?

Jacaylbaro;804196 wrote: Federalism ,,, u mean Somaliland & Somalia ?? This might be what you would wish for, but how about other Somalis? did it ever occur to you what you see to be in your best interest does not quite fit with what others see as their best interest? or you have reached that point yet?

This was actually the question to you. I did not speak of solutions. what is your definition of a nation state? and this is not 'xujo', and it is more of creating agreed parameters for the conversation. and if you want we can some other time talk about theoretical solutions.

Why are you so adamant of piracy being a solely Puntland creation? is it not a Somali problem?

Carafaat;804159 wrote: Illyria, even when facing complex problems one need to come with counter arguments or atleast some idea's. Somalia's problems are complex but silence does equal solution. Carafaat - i think you meant to say silence does NOT equal solution, no? if so, let us go back to basics. what is your definition of a nation state? and htis is not 'xujo', and it is more of creating agreed parameters for the conversation.

Dee adeer na daa hadaba. qabyaalada iyo reer miyinimadaba anagaa qaadanaynee sidaa nagu daa. Somali baanu rabnaa baa nu nidhi, adna waxaa nala daba taagan tahay wax aanu hore u diidnay. dee na dhig. oo na daa. oo shaqo kale yeelo.

there you go again. back to your usual nonsense. what was that old saying? there i thought we just agreed to be and let be and we were doing so good until. but how did we get to bring hate into the conversation? in hore laguu yidhina waan u malaynayaa reer Laascaanood waa Somali, Somali bay rabaan dhib iyo dheefna Somali bay la wadaagi doonaan.

Did not you already know that? and then there is the difference between used to, and are now.

this is the future, and it is good news.

Fariid baabad tahayoo wax baad maqlaysaa taada uun ku ekow oo mar dambe yaan lagaa maqal Laascaanood. haddii intaa laga helo waa bilaw wanaagsan.

And even the villain pronounces God into his wrongdoings. be and let be. simple as that but i fear that is not to your liking. horaase loo yidhi soo joog qofkii laga waayo, soo jiifsaa laga helaa. odhaah kalaa ahayd dhubuq dhubuq hore dhabana hays dambay dhashaa. why do i have the feeling it will all end tragically thereabouts.

What do you know about galkacyo?

Maba xumee talada aad bixinayso in aad adigu qaadataa sow kama horayso. Adigu ku qanac, wanaag iyo xumaanba intaada, ummadda kalena inteeda u daa.

Haaye barwaaqada aad sheegayso adigu hayso. aniga taydaa ii daa.