Here Good luck to the kid!

^^i'm very much looking forward to my games vs you two,lol, W11, Old Trafford? Wheres that? 187 make sure you bring your wolly hat, gloves and some strength next week. Its a bit grim up north!

First you have to establish (prove!) that EVERY criticised vocal muslim speaks for what Islam says. It's self-evident truth that not ALL vocal muslims speak for what Islam says (Osama Bin Laden for 1) not to mention the different readings of Islam. If ANY vocal muslim claiming to be speaking on the behalf of Islam has got it wrong, then ANY vocal muslim can be criticised for what he does. If you see holes in my reasoning, show it otherwise concede. So one muslim can criticise the other, fair enough. But the one doing the criticising must have some basic knowledge about the deen in order to, right? I CONCEDE Now, answer my questions,,,, Are you a Muslim? ps dont you think the usual attention seeking has overboard here?

Take me for example. Those who criticise me don't so for what I say (ie reject the Sunnah etc) but what I do -- independently speak my mind! If you have regected the Sunnah,,,, 1) How do you pray? 2) How do you wash yourself? 3) How do you eat? 4) How do you fast in the month of Ramadan (what do you refrain from)? 5) Why do you rejct to learn from the Ulama that are mentioned in the Quran? and many more,,,,,,see where i'm going here,,,,if you have rejected the Sunnah, are you a Muslim? babble babble babble with more holes in his arguments than a fishing net!

Al Mutaffifin, Chapter 83, Part 30 Translation - M Asad 83:1 WOE UNTO THOSE who give short measure 83:2 those who, when they are to receive their due from [other] people, demand that it be given in full 83:3 but when they have to measure or weigh whatever they owe to others, give less than what is due 83:4 Do they not know that they are bound to be raised from the dead 83:5 [and called to account] on an awesome Day 83:6 the Day when all men shall stand before the Sustainer of all the worlds? 83:7 NAY, VERILY, the record of the wicked is indeed [set down] in a mode inescapable! 83:8 And what could make thee conceive what that that mode inescapable will be? 83:9 A record [indelibly] inscribed! 83:10 Woe on that Day unto those who give the lie to the truth 83:11 those who give the lie to the [coming of] Judgment Day: 83:12 for, none gives the lie to it but such as are wont to transgress against all that is [and are] immersed in sin: 83:13 [and so,] whenever Our messages are conveyed to them, they but say, "Fables of ancient times!" 83:14 Nay, but their hearts are corroded by all [the evil] that they were wont to do! 83:15 Nay, verily, from [the grace of] their Sustainer shall they on that Day be debarred; 83:16 and then, behold, they shall enter the blazing fire 83:17 and be told: "This is the [very thing] to which you were wont to give the lie!" 83:18 NAY, VERILY - the record of the truly virtuous is [set down] in a mode most lofty! 83:19 And what could make thee conceive what that mode most lofty will be? 83:20 A record [indelibly] inscribed, 83:21 witnessed~ by all who have [ever] been drawn close unto God. 83:22 Behold, [in the life to come] the truly virtuous will indeed be in bliss: 83:23 [resting on couches, they will look up [to God]: 83:24 upon their faces thou wilt see the brightness of bliss. 83:25 They will be given a drink of pure wine whereon the seal [of God] will have been set, 83:26 pouring forth with a fragrance of musk. [8] To that [wine of paradise], then, let all such aspire as [are willing to] aspire to things of high account: 83:27 for it is composed of all that is most exalting 83:28 a source [of bliss] whereof those who are drawn close unto God shall drink 83:29 BEHOLD, those who have abandoned themselves to sin are wont to laugh at such as have attained to faith 83:30 and whenever they pass by them, they wink at one another [derisively]; 83:31 and whenever they return to people of their own kind, [12] they return full of jests; 83:32 and whenever they see those [who believe,] they say, "Behold, these [people] have indeed gone astray!" 83:33 And, withal, they have no call to watch over [the beliefs of] others. . . 83:34 But on the Day [of Judgment], they who had attained to faith will [be able to] laugh at the [erstwhile] deniers of the truth: 83:35 [for, resting in paradise] on couches, they will look on [and say to themselves]: 83:36 "Are these deniers of the truth being [thus] requited for [aught but] what they were wont to do?" The Holy Quran

^^ It is actually you who doesn't understand. The distinction you draw between what muslims do and Islam is unnecessary. Muslims will be judged by what they DO not by what they belief. Americans will be judged by what they do not by what they belief; jews will be judged by what they do not by what they belief. Those who criticise Islam, not I, will do so on the grounds of what Islam says, not what muslims do. And those who criticise muslisms, for which I'm one of, will do so based on what muslims do, not what Islam says. Do you also critise muslims who do what Islam says? You criticise a muslim for speaking out against what is wrong in this world (As Islam askes of us)? What is Americanism? Does it not mean to control world affairs at whatever cost? If not, proove it. You just babbling on and on without any thought process going into any of your arguments. You are infact going round in circles! lol@weakness of argument ps its Judaism

Just watched the debate..very good points. See the Doha Debates on BBC World! BBC World will be broadcasting the fifth Doha Debate of our second series on March 4th and 5th at the following times. Watch and see how Qatar is changing the rules of public discourse in the Arab world. GMT: Saturday March 4th 12:10 and repeated at 20:10 Sunday March 5th 08:10 and repeated at 17:10 Doha Time: Saturday March 4th 15:10 and repeated at 23:10 Sunday March 5th 11:10 and repeated at 20:10 The broadcast will be of the February 26th Doha Debate. The motion is "This House believes that the international community must accept Hamas as a political partner " and the debate will be recorded in front of a live audience at the Qatar Foundation's headquarters at Education City. This will be the 10th Doha Debate broadcast by BBC World since January 2005. BBC World is the BBC's international, 24 hour news channel, broadcasting by satellite to nearly 270 million people in more than 200 countries and territories worldwide. Good speakers

I was searching an article in the January Issue of New African Magazine but could not find it, found the same artcle here

It doesn't start with walking on the footprints of colonial powers, it rather goes the opposite and aims at higher values that truly reflect on you as a society. Saxib, SL are persuing recognition through whatever avenues are possible. Somalia has persued their interests of not allowing it through Italia. Italia has the ear of the EU which France is a prominent member of - a new nation with the Brits supporting it??? no way say the French! and in the EU, what the French say usually goes. Therefore we are all guilty of the crime of seeking former clonial powers assistance on persuing respective agendas. The AU have been given the task of 'recognising'.

lol@when a society loses its saneness, peace, progress and stability is indeed losing saneness ey brother? Putting its case for recognition (ie demonstrating its political system of governance)will leave an impression upon the Welsh Parliament. Progress has been made on the ground within SL now its time for efforts outsidde of SL. Views of opponents are the last of SL's worries saxib. Onwards and upwards as they say in good ole UK You have your views and i respect them but thats where the buck stops. You are not the first and certainly wont be the last

MR Alle Ubaahne, thank you for your comments but the Somaliland Issue has been discussed to the death on SOL. I actually dont bother with it anymore as everyone has one view or the other but you have to face facts mate. Somaliland is progressing in persuit of it goals. The invitation from the Welsh Parliament is another 'recognition' of Somaliland's transparent political system. I think the Somaliland lobby in Wales has actually achieved something in gaining this invitation by their parliament.

^^The wheels are certainly rolling and most other nations know of Somaliland these days due to some good exposure and PR by the media both at home and abroad. But what impresses them most is the democracy created, without any outside help, by a people who came out of a civil war and the role of Gurti. A bunch of old men sitting under a tree as the lawmakers/dispute resolvers of a whole nation. gets the urge to jump on a plane

Welsh Parliament Invites Somaliland Parliament The Republican (Hargeisa) Posted to the web February 24, 2006 The Chair and the Director of Somali Advice & Information Centre has today announced that "Welsh Assembly "Parliament" issued an Official invitation to Rt. Hon. Saleban Mohamed Adan, Chairman of House of Elder (Gurti) and Rt. Hon. Abdirahman Mohamed Abdillahi, Chairman of House of Representatives. Mr.Abdikarim Adan, The Director said," We are very proud to lead and manage the forthcoming historical tour of the UK by Somaliland Parliamentary Delegation. The Delegation during their visit in London and Cardiff will meet with Local, Regional and Central Government officials, elected Members of the UK Parliament, Government Ministers, Welsh Assembly Members and Local Councillors in Wales and England as well as many International NGOs based in the UK. Mr. Ahmed Hassan Arwo, Chairman of Somali Advice & Information Centre, said" We are extremely honoured that, our association once more has successfully lobbied for this great invitation, which will offer good governance and practical experience to the newly elected Somaliland Parliament. Our success is shared by all UK Somaliland Communities in different cities and counties. We always strife to build a fruitful bridge between our home country and our adopted nation. This visit will inject a huge experience to enhance the performance of the new born democracy, learned from the mother of all parliaments, the British Parliament. I wish to express our appreciation and extend our congratulations to the Welsh Assembly Government and to Westminster Parliament for making this historical event a reality." "Cardiff Somaliland Community elders welcome this milestone visit, which will present them an opportunity to meet political leaders of their home country. They spelled loud and clear their gratitude and delight, with the successful efforts of Somali Advice & Information Centre in undertaking this landmark tour." said, Mr. Ahmed Arwo. Finally, Mr. Ahmed Hassan Arwo, said, "On behalf of the Community I nominated Mr. Abdikarim Abdi Adan who initiated, in our name, this noble task, to be the main lead Officer for the Tour, and I am sure he will be supported by 2006-02-25 Source: The Republican (Hargeisa) ------------------------------------------------- Somaliland is on steady progress in all aspects,,,

I've opted for a court hearing though, i think i can fight my way through LX, what are you going to fight? You had not insurance, full stop. Your excuses will not be heard at all and the magistrate who will just order you to take it on the chin. Plus you will have to pay the court costs, your fine will be at 300 quid!

The question posed is actually what a muslim should ask a non-muslim at work/school/uni. Try it and see their response. It will make them think about it and not just for a moment but for a while. Its one of the best ways of breaking the ice when trying to introduce someone to Islam. Therefore this could actually be a blessing in disguise for the nomads of SOL to go on a Dacwa offensive. Who agrees? Starting tomorrow everyone will ask this question to a work colleague or equivalant and see what happens. But please have some information to give. ps - leave out the nonesense please!

^^tell me about it. There was a time of endless court appearances for driving offences ranging from no insurance, going through no entries, taking turns where i was'nt supposed to and defective tyres . I was banned twice! It has taken 4 years to get them off my license :rolleyes:

The Greatest Show on the planet indeed!

^^ :confused:

ALexus, you are right. But it may be beneficial sometimes to hear the Khutba as it always has reminders/advice for Muslims both on the basics of Islam as well as views on 'current' events. Allahu aclam

^^So how much does one pay for a trip across to Yemen? Then what? Beg? The amount used for the boat trip can start a small business so the no job theory is out. Plus many are from stable areas and have families for support. Yes our circumstances are better and so is theirs before they move across the water, thats if they make it!

^^when you see fellow Somalis begging in Dubai and Makkah you will also ask yourself, why dont they just go back home? Sitting on street corners asking people for money is not my idea of better conditions. Wosrt thing is, every other Pakistani is working his socks off doing the hardest of jobs and earning very little in comparison to the actual work he is doing. But he is 'working' whereas Somalis sit there begging.

Yes Castro, another sad day. We have a whole generation of uneducated people who have experienced nothing but war with a dream to go to the EU. I dont blame them as they just want to live their lives. The desperation has gotten ridiculous in all respects. From the innocents to the gun wielding thugs, desperation saxib, desperation.

^^Very sad, the people need educating big time. They all seem to think Yemen, Dubai (or UAE in genral), Saudi (all be it on a hopeful transit to the EU) are good places for them. If only they knew :rolleyes:

Some of you are sounding like a bunch of defeatists. Get a grip and change your outlook on life. Be confident in whatever you do and have POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE! On his website he said: "Too many graduates are simply not ready for the workplace, and it is terrifying to discover that some of them cannot even have a sustained conversation." So true, can one have a conversation (with good grammer and pronounciation) without - saying you get me? Some of you need to change your attitudes and go out and get it, you have one life to live. Have no regrets! ps - practice your 'professional' english!

Some of you are sounding like a bunch of defeatists. Get a grip and change your outlook on life. Be confident in whatever you do and have POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE! On his website he said: "Too many graduates are simply not ready for the workplace, and it is terrifying to discover that some of them cannot even have a sustained conversation." So true, can one have a conversation (with good grammer and pronounciation) without - saying you get me? Some of you need to change your attitudes and go out and get it, you have one life to live. Have no regrets! ps - practice your 'professional' english!