Originally by Viking: As for the 'rebuttal' on the issue of apostasy - it could only be valuable by quoting verses of the Qur'an or sound Hadith. If you know of any please don't hesitate to share it with us. A question that needs answering! Any verse of the Qur'an or Sound hadith? It would be helpful to learn them. Please do share.

MMA, Salaan sxb. Thanks for the clarification. I've heard several cases where poor people had their hands chopped off for stealing, where powerful clans raided the court to free their accused member. Maxkamada's partially has become the concern of many who had high hopes of Islamic courts. If there is a segregationist plot against the poor then, I say the court is nothing but a franchised clan-court under the veil of supposed 'Islamicity'. PS: On a different issue, Sxb, I have been thinking about plans to have a connection with websites of minority Somalis' websites as to invite them some of their members to apply to SOL forum. I for one would wish to see their voices heard, atleast cyberly, and then publically. We need to have our brethrens amongst us in cyber and in real life. PM sxb on any advices you might give on this proposition.

maxkamadda islaamiga Boola-tikniko oo ay sameysteen beesha reer Shabeelle oo ka mid ah beelaha Jareer. I don't understand the above phrase! Who's court is it? Is it the people's (reer Shabeele ka mid ah beelaha Jareer) or is it controlled by some other authority outside the camp?

^^^ is it? Oh well, I didnt know that! Thats news

^^^^ Of all the people in the demonstration, I liked this guy's tactic of protest! You agree? No?

^^^ lol Underdog, sxb thank you. The state in which majority of the people live is depressingly and extremely perilous. All the poor peoples are better-off searching for alternatives within themselves than from outside, I guess. May God help us poor, aamiin.

Just as one becomes a British or American citizen by consent, so must one consent to becoming a Somali. Despite speaking the language and other common things, anyone who hasn't consented to being a Somali is not a Somali, and thus has no culture. One must first know what it means to become a Somali; the duties and responsibilities abound Consensual Somaliness and then, consent to assume the identity that is Somali. Culture comes from trueness to one's self and tendencies. Because we are not truly committed to any of our identities (clan or community), laziness has made copycats of us in copying others' who are truly committed to their Selfs. We have a tradition of repitition of practices, but not a culture thats unique to us, cos we aren't true to our SELFS. Xaalku waa Dameeri dhaan raacdey .

^^ ur wlcm. Viking, lol I know the book bro, I have it at home. As apocalyptic as the guy's theory seems, I don't think its scary or holds water for that matter. Sxb read some Critical Theory perspective on these issues, cos the realists are simpletons who only 'pretend' to explain a world in which they have helped to create. It is like making a cup of tea and then claiming it exists objectively by its own. Then carry on to explain how it will taste, or how hot it is lol. Later on down the line of history of the cup of tea explanation, they then claim such explanation has a 'timeless wisdom'. So huntington and the neo-cons are recreating the world as they wish it to look, and then they write books of predictions about it . Very neat huh? Their knowledge of cup of tea is strengthened by their grip on power. Since they hold power over public and educational institutions, what they say becomes the common-sense that prevails in their societies. If the say Black is white, and White is Black, a hundred years from now, such an assertion is likely to become a commonly held view. Most people cannot conceive the thought of created 'common-sense' and its implications on social conscousness. It will be a labourous task to de-contruct these created common-senses, since those who could are suppressed in Universities and educational institutions. A university lecture who is a friend of mine had faced such suppression 'cos he held some neomarxist convictions. Read Antonio Gramsci's writing on the creation of common-sense and the alternative 'organic intellectuals'. I suggested Critical theory to you 'cos it doesn't take anything as 'given'. It asks fundamental questions of Hows, which are helpful to realization of the Self. If you have time , another useful read will be 'Deep Ecology', it also challenges many things regading the relationship between nature and humans that are taken as 'given'.

Abwaan do you think there will be some kind of a speech from one of the organisers?

When the eye can on multitude feast, SOL girls, or man in suit matter least! PS: The more the macawiis the better, I say .

^^^ All day it is then .

Jumatatu, any idea about the timing? From what time to what time will the demo begin and stop?

Nomads, read the original article of ' The Class of Civilizations' by the realist Samuel Huntington, so that you may follow the article above. You may just find the original article informative in regards to understanding why Bush or neo-cons behave the way they do. You may also find in the article the reason why American decision-makers fear the occurrence of clash . Enjoy

World Poverty Update. • Every day more than 30,000 children around the world die of preventable diseases, a total of over 11 million a year. • The richest 5 percent of the world’s people have incomes 114 times those of the poorest 5 percent. The richest 1 percent receive as much income as the poorest 57 percent. • 2.8 billion people live on less than $2 a day, with 1.2 billion of them subsisting on less than $1 a day. • In 1997–9 an estimated 815 million people were undernourished. • During the 1990s the number of people in extreme poverty in Sub-Saharan Africa rose from 242 million to 300 million. • By the end of 2000 almost 22 million people (now updated by the UNDP to 24.8 million) had died of AIDS, 13 million children had lost their mother or both parents to the disease and more than 40 million people were living with HIV. Of these, 90 percent were in developing countries and 75 percent were in Sub-Saharan Africa. • There are 100 million ‘missing’ women who would be alive but for infanticide, neglect and sex-selective abortion. • Every year there are 300 million cases of malaria, 90 percent of them in Sub- Saharan Africa. • More than 500,000 women die a year as a result of pregnancy and childbirth. Source: United Nations Human Development Report 2002 (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2002), pp.10–30. These figures are used by Steve Smith in his ISA 2002 address. See his article ‘Singing Our World into Existence**: International Relations and September 11’, International Studies Quarterly, forthcoming, June 2004. ** Read: Singing our world into existence: International Relations and September 11

MVP, this is a classic Ecofem essentialism. They are very interesting and thought-provoking brand. Their writings and analysis of things is bemusing and insightful at the same time. Nomads ladies, I think you all need to consult the ecofem's essentialism to understand the message MVP's article conveys. Here is a good place to start: - Masculinity, Nature, Ecofeminism PS: Atleast if one wishes to walk and talk like a feminist, one must atleast know how a feminist should walk and talk . There so many brands of feminism, so girls, know your suitable brand!

Good indeed. I am reminded of my primary school years . White shirt and Blue trouser as uniform. Fun days they were .

I feel that the only reason why this individual brought the subject up is because he is envious of her success. Lol@Lazy, so in your personal view she's successful and so the poster is obviously envious of that? If so I respect your personal view. But mind you, I've never conceived the thought that a Muslim would ever align 'blasphemy' with 'success'. Rather, I thought, blasphemy will be placed in the same shelf with 'disgust', and not a success of any kind of which one can be envious.

Garyaqaan, thanks for the info sxb. I understand what you are saying. It comes across like a paradoxical fate for those who wish to be developed by a country that is herself developing. What will be the pace between, say, an African development programme and a Chinese'? Will both developmental programmes skip together, or will the pace of the chinese go faster than the Africans? If so, will this mean sacrifices on the African part? Any idea about this sxb? PS: Garyaqaan, are you done with China for the time being? If you go back to China, an online journal (such as a blog) will be nice to document your take on things. Ofcourse that would be of benefit to me . Khaalid, lol maybe the Chinese' shortness makes your tallness to be compared to MJ . Why are they basketball crazy, laakiin?

^^^ Thanks for the article Soo Maal. Very informative indeed sxb. While the dragon spits fire, who will be burnt? And while the elephant runs alongside the flying dragon, whom will he stumble upon? Very frightening prospect indeed.

Saudis behead 6 Somalis 04/04/2005 15:23 - (SA) Source: News24 Riyadh - Six Somalis were beheaded the Mecca region on Monday after being convicted of a spate of armed robberies against taxi drivers, the Saudi interior ministry said. The six were convicted of "forming a gang which dragged taxi drivers to remote places, beat them up, threatened them with a knife and stole their money... as well as stealing a number of taxis", the ministry said in a statement carried by the official SPA news agency. It named the six as Abdullah bin Adam Abdullah, Abdul Fattah bin Ali Hassan, Hussein bin Harun Mahmud, Ali bin Sheikh Yussef, Abdul Nur bin Mohammad Wahili and Abdullah bin Hassan Abdi. The latest executions bring to 36 the number of beheadings announced by Saudi authorities so far this year, more than the number of executions for the whole of 2004. Thirty-five people were beheaded in the kingdom in 2004, according to an AFP tally based on official statements. Executions are generally carried out in public in Saudi Arabia, which applies a strict form of Islamic law. The death penalty is meted out for murder, rape, apostasy, armed robbery and drug trafficking. So in this case, the six Somalis committed armed robbery. This is the law, atleast in Saudi Arabia. I have no case against armed robbers being beheaded. If the Sharicah instructs a beheading to be carried out upon armed robbers, I am content with that instruction.

Bachelor: What is your solution for that J? Do you know that, the people of Godey have never seen any benefit of webi shabelle yet? Bachelor sxb, on the one hand, a solution to this issue needs a long and hard contemplation. Insha-allaah I will tell you more about my views towards this particular issue. One the other, a friend who arrived from Godey briefed me about the project and its potentialities for the locals. According to him, the project is at first an irrigation system. The central government has allocated thousands of acres to it and has distributed this land to the locals. He saw this move of the central government as a political move aimed at 'hearts and minds'. The desired outcome is to provide local peoples with 'some' economic welfare, be it through subsistance farming. It follows the thought of a well-fed citizen is a happy citizen. So that when the old claim of Somaliweyn to this region reccurs, the peoples will hasitate and stick with Ethiopia. This has already been the case with 'some' NFD citizens who dismiss the entire Somaliweyn concept as ill-conceived. Another consideration is that the object of Meles upon the implimentation of this project is a double-edged one. The public objective is ofcourse to show the world how Ethiopia is helping towards its food-security. But the other uderlying objective is said to be a case of 'luring' locals into a close coalition of governance. This has become the case since the Ethiopia-Eritrea conflicts. This particular conflict had created a reduction of Tigrinya loyalty for Meles. The Ethiopian capture of Eritrean land brought Meles under global spotlight, and the UN ordered Meles to retreat. However, his Tigray tribesmen had no plan of retreating from what they believed to be their rightful land. Meles thus found himself in catch 22 situation. If he forces his tribesmen out of Eritrea he will loose their support, if he let them stay the world will condemn Ethiopia and cut off all international aid. He decided to favour the latter. Since then he has been trying to gain new support from somewhere else. In the place of his tribesmen, Meles surrounded himself with other Ethnicities to support his government. Many Ethio-Somalis are thus claimed to be his best pals in the power-steering wheel. To keep them happy he must show he is doing something for the Somali region of Zone 5 . So that is the result of the project. The aim to benefit local Somalis. Nothing more. A nice theory, isnt it? In an interview with IRRINEWS, Meles was asked: Source: IRINNEWS "Q: Former Kenyan president Daniel arap Moi recently said the problem of peace in Somalia is due to regional neighbours who are afraid of the reconstitution of a strong and united Somalia. Is Ethiopia afraid of a united strong Somalia that may lay claims to parts of Ethiopia? A: Well Salad [TNG president Abdiqassim Salad Hassan] raised this thing in Kampala and I said that while we respect Moi as an elder statesman, he doesn’t speak for Ethiopia. If the Ethiopian Somalis want to secede they are free to do so any time of the day. That’s the constitution of Ethiopia. If the Somali people of Ethiopia wish to do so, that’s fine with me. That’s not an issue at all now ." Is he for real, I wonder! Maybe we (Somalis) are a tad bit paranoid . But hey! We will know the results when Somalia gets back on its feets. Insha-Allah soon. Aamiin. Originally posted by GarYaQaaN: But to tell you the truth China can be described as two countries. One is very modern, industrial, and could rival any developed country. The other is where 75% of China's people live—in the countryside where conditions are not far better than those of the poorest African countries Garyaqaan, it is nice to hear from you too. Thanks for the information about China. Sxb your quote above reminds of theorist called Emanuel Wellestein, who depicts many South East Asian countries as having 'Core' urban environment and 'periphery' rural environment. His theory explains that if you are in some Asian cities, you might mistake them for Western cities. Everything looks and feels like a city in a developed country. However, the minute you step outside, you will feel as if you are in a Third World country. He called countries such as these: Semi-Pheriphery. What distinguishes them from other pheriphery countries is that they are of 'skilled-labour' as opposed to the 'unskilled-labour' of other TW countries.

^^^ Thank you for the article. It is, to say the least, illuminating. Thank to HornAfrique, Bachelor and Garyaqaan. PS: GarYaqaan, after SOAS & Boston it seems you've become adventurous. Update us on this Chinese phenomenon sxb. How long, do you think, till another bi-polarity? Afterall, Huntington's rise of Confusianism coupled with Islam as the next power-bloc appears to be partly self-fulfilling .

A growth of strength in Ethio-Chinese relationship will inevetably harbour geopolitical and strategic threats for all members of the Horn and N.Africa. In a word, a formidable improvement of Ethio-chinese partnership will place our country, Somalia, in a position of global difficulty. This is if the Chinese government succeeds in extracting efficiently its economic and AU-related strategic interests from Addis-ababa. History, thus, seems to be repeating itself as we re-visit the blunderous proxy Cold-War conflict, between our Fatherland and Ethiopia, which resulted in the Soviet's switch from Somalia to Ethiopia and the US's refusal to support our Cause . We now face the same danger of being marginalised or totally excluded from both the chinese and the American 'spheres of influence', as another new proxy-cold-war heats up between these two powers. A TFG government official, has several weeks ago been quoted emphasizing the age-old relationship between the Punt and China. Age-old being the keyword, China's leap to forwardly regain its old-age prestige may render old histories obsolete. A clear trend in China's push to procure sources of energy and other vital raw materials, shows that its approach is highly of Realist nature, and of no regard to old historical ties. This can be seen in China's disregard for the ruling class of countries in which it seeks its interest. The American foreign-policy makers have for long adapted such an approach under the rubric of "dual morality". One moral system for domestic of a country and another for the statesman in pursuit of the NATIONAL INTEREST (Survival). As mentioned in the New Wall Street journal, the Chinese offical says: "so long as Ethiopia officials are happy, our goal is fulfilled.". Unfortunately this Chinese attitude applies to relationships between African countries implicated in these new developments. More generally, if Ethiopia installs 'friendly Somali government' in Somalia, my fears are that Ethiopia may become the sheperone figure in dealings that may take place, in the future, between Somalia and China. China and Somalia historically had close and strong deplomatic relationship, specially in the pre-civil war years. An example of this is that most of the completed infrustractural projects within Somalia had been done by China. This close relationship may never be achieved again in most circumstances, except for one. Only if Ethiopia brokers a reasonable deal with Somalia of non-interference and good pay in the transportion of Ethiopia's newly-found gas (in the Ogden mostly) via pipe-lines planned to go across Somalia and, be exported from new-port to be built in the Somali coast. Thus in a fair economic agreement, may we derive some taxation and autonomy over our land. Furthermore, in one of other outstanding issues, Somalia must - and should- make its protestations known about Ethiopia's diversion (in Godey with the help of Scandenevian construction companies) of River Shabelle, which may result in the starvation of water from the Somali hinterland. The Shabelle dam project, according to secure sources, is already complete and holds the capacity to reduce River Shabelle to a trickle of water, with crippled velocity that hinders water travelling to Somali regions. This is not acceptable in any condition, and in any foreseeable future. Lastly, China had proceeded in the project which other contractors had dared to, a project where the World Bank and others deemed suitable to abandon to safeguard the regional peace. The project is the 'Takazee Dam' project. What is China doing? However China seems supportive of the developing countries, it is fitting to recognize that, in its bid to secure its interests, China seems willing to reignite old enminites, to help create in African minds an elusive legitimacy to vie for China's allience and economic support. That said, I am very anxious and at the same the time excited at the prospect of Third World development. Apart from being sceptical to China's help to Ethiopia, who knows, a new cooperative spirit between all TW countries may come to exist! As it stands, the only way for Africa is UP^ If China pulls a successful development and creates out of the third world a formidable ally, I say, the West's world dominion is set to crumble.

I find myself agreeing with J11’s contentions, though believe them to be a tad strong if they were made on the strength of this shabby and, frankly, pointless article alone. NGONGE, no sxb. I made the comment trying to encourage the acceptance of criticisms but not all those who bring them forth. I read other works of the prof., and have seen him attacked not his works. A topic of his is also in camel milk forum, I think you have seen it too.