I have actually been thinking about this seriously for awhile, so thank you Hibo for starting the discussion. I think the first mistake people make is to consider culture as an static entity that does not vary over time, place, and people. For example, even though Islam allows for men to marry up to four women, this is not necessarily practiced by all muslim men. Another example is though people might speak a shared language in terms of broad structure and grammar their might be significant local or regional differences. This can occur as close as your neighbors house, or across the next hill. Even though we speak of the modern world as a globalized, I think the process of exchange of ideas, dress, language, attitudes, etc. has been occuring since the dawn of humans. This leads to my next point of the myth of the indigenous. I think many cultures like to claim that certain practices were orginated by them in their homeland, and this may be true in some cases, but often many cultural practices are an interaction between internal and external interactions. As someone pointed out the Diric is a Yemeni dress, well I am not certain this is true, but I have seen women wearing diric-like dress from the Sudan, Yemen, Oman, Somalia, Maurautania, and Morocco. If you ask me I think Somalis have a strong and vibrant culture that is a result of history, cultural interaction both within the Horn of Africa and from the outside, and the more modern history of displacement. The source of the crisis of Somali culture is directly related to situation in our homeland, because the strongest source of cultural maintenance and definition in the modern world is that nation state. I am temporarily residing in Egypt this year, and it is amazing the amount of money and attention the Egyptian government spends to define Modern Egypt as the birthright and product of Ancient Egypt despite a wealth of evidence to the contrary. Who knows in some amount of time maybe they will be successful. I think many times in my life as a Somali-American I have felt similar sentiments to those expressed in this post, but now I have changed my mine. SOMALIS HAVE A RICH AND VIBRANT CULTURE, AND ARE A UNIQUE PPL ON THIS EARTH. This uniqueness is not derived from our material culture, but our sense of self. I appreciate that Somalis are generous to their friends and family, but do not bow to their enemies. They are honest and straightforward people for the most part, and this is recognized by many people. Somalis are one of the smallest groups in Africa, but our impact on the world is much greater than our size. This is because Somalis are not afraid to challenge authority, and do not accept ill treatment. Let me list some examples: 1. One of the first organized armed opposition to colonialization happened in Somalia. 2. The Russian intervention using Russian, Cuban, and Yemeni troops in the Ethio-Somali war was the first such use in Africa. 3. Somalis serving in colonial forces in Africa were classified as Asian not African because they would not accept the substandard treatment. 4. Muslim challenges to certain discriminatory practices in North America have often been led by Somalis, particularly prayer facilities and dress codes. 5. Somalia has one of the better telecommunications infrastructures in Africa, all due to local businessmen. I am sure if we put our heads together we can up with many more positive examples to balance the negative ones. Furthermore, though much of Somalia's material culture on the surface appears to be non-indigenous I feel that in every case from food to music, Somalis have created a unique cultural product out of these influences. I welcome your comments...

I think it is time that all Somalis realize that nobody in this world gives a damn whether or not this war is ended. This is our last chance to receive even minimal assistance from the international community to put Somalia back on a positive path. The warlords within and outside the government will never disarm unless they feel assured of some piece of the pie, peferably similar in size to the current one. Nevertheless, it is unlikely these foreign forces will serve as an offensive force, so power is unlikely to move the matter forward. But, a perceived neutral power is necessary to hold accountable any agreements that have been reached. I don't think relocation is an option, not because it is not desirable, but it is politically unfeasible.

Hi All, I am from the good ole USA, but I am in Cairo for the year on a fellowship to finish my dissertation. Any Somali people in a similar situation here in Cairo? peace, Waaq

I understand that peacekeepers are often not the most positive measures to ensuring stability, but in the case of Somalia I see no other alternative. I think we can all agree that the transitional government is far from perfect, and is in actuality terribly flawed, but if this is the way forward this "government" needs a reasonable ability to enforce their mandate. It is beyond my comprehension that there would be mass demonstrations against peacekeeping forces in the area of the country that has suffered the most as a result of the war. I can wholeheartedly agree with concerns over the participation of frontline states (e.g. Ethiopia) in the peacekeeping forces, but without any enforcement capability this government will go the way of the TNG, regardless of the extent of warlord participation in its ranks. Self interest does not change, and those that have raped the country literally and figuratively do not become statesmen overnight. Does the diaspora feel the same way about peacekeeping forces in Somalia? What are alternatives towards the creation of a functioning state and rebuilding efforts?

any chance the land or homes already belong to people who were forced to leave the city

All I have stay is don't generalize, but this dude needs to be put in check. If you were my sister that dude better get the f**k out of there cause I am gonna set him straight the easy or the hard way. His choice. I suggest you stop looking at this guy with respect, and see him for punk he is. tell him to mind his own business, who has any right to tell you how to dress. You might be young, but you are an adult.

Indeed this is a wonderful post. Thank you for sharing your story. The mode of parenting you describe is in stark contrast to the modes of parenting found these days in the Somali community. One trait that I find lacking in today's parents is the ability to teach your kids how to discern right and wrong. In other words, providing your kids with the critical thinking skills necessary to make decisions in your (the parents) absence. Even if my mother was near by or not I could always hear her voice in my ear whenever a sticky situation arose. I might not have always made the right decision, but my mother made sure that I was equipped with ability to do so. The single greatest example of the lack of this ability I see in Somalis is the constant use of the word "haraam". It seems that parents have restorted to threat of Allah as a substitute for their own parenting. Not everything is "haraam" (i.e. forbidden by god) it might just be wrong, impolite, or disrespectful. Thanks again for the post Gaasira

Please leave the sister alone. While I disagree with most everything she has said, I do not believe silencing her is productive or just. She should be allowed to speak her mind, no matter how misguided she might be. Muslims reactions to her only serve increase here authenticity to the world. Better to engage her in cool and calm discussion. my two cents...

Probably one of the dozens of Somali traders that get food staples from different parts of Asia to Somali and other African countries. It is shame because they probably lost a great deal of money as a result.

Mugabe is just another in a long example of good man gone bad. I agree with all of you on the issue of land redistribution, but there are better methods of achieving that goal. Moreover, President Mugabe has taken the land and given it to his cronies. Are black oppressors and theives better than white oppressors and theives. Mugabe is using the issue of land redistribution much like our own warlords use clan politics to cover our eyes to what they are really doing. Which is robbing us all blind! Have you not heard that his wife consficates the national airline for extravagant shopping trips to South Africa. I agree that the western media is portraying him in a severly negative light because of his affect on whites, but this does not detract from his own misgivings. I for one cannot support these people, and I hate them almost as much as the white settler and their former compatriots in the West.

Sophist, I am not confident that I have grasped your entire essay, but I feel that engagement is preferable to the current state of apathy. However, I feel it is important to avoid a winner takes all mentality so often found in African politics. Despite my own frustration and exacerbation with the current political processess and those that are the cogs of these processes, I still believe that the role of Somali intellectuals is critically examine the process from the outside. I believe their role is to increase the body of knowledge available on the Somali situation, and to uphold the principles on academic discourse. In other post it was suggested that Nurrudin Farah should assume a political role in Somalia, but in my view this would be an unacceptable blurring of the roles in a functioning soceity. Mr. Farah might be a just, honest, and capable leader, but he is a brilliant writer and commentator on the contradictions of Somali Soceity. In my view, what is more critical to the enlightenment you mention is the dedication of one's effort to the cause. The cause in this case is the rebuilding of a state and soceity. You are correct in your observations that the idea of Somalia has been co-opted by undesireable elements with little qualifications for leadership except for their shrewd misuse of Somali social organization. Somalis, despite are small numbers can still muster a wide array of talent and energy is pressed. The problem is that few of those most able to combat the mindless propaganda and revisionist history are engaged in Somali affairs. I respect the efforts of Prof. Samatar and others who have worked for peace and reconciliation. I do not respect the larger body of Somali professionals and intellectuals who have completely disengaged from Somalia. I wish I could think of some method of awakening this sleeping lion that could effect a great change in Somalia.

Any exciting happenings in Minneapolis for the Labor Day weekend? What about in Duluth?

The issue of reparations is a touchy subject. One point is that the main advocates for reparations do not in fact put monetary reparations as their primary objective, yet this is the dominant view. Randall Robinson, one of the main voices for reparations in the African American community, see reparations primarily as an accounting of the drastic impact slavery had on the growth and prosperity of the nations that participated. He wants everyone to know about how deeply ingrained slavery was to the growth of capitalism. It is true that the story is one-sided, but until Africans begin to take the power of self-definition into their own hands this will always be the case. At least three movies on the holocaust are released every year. This helps to keep that tragic event in the minds of the whole world, and allows Jews to assert a monopoly on suffering. I could go on and on, but I will stop here.

On another note. I have been witnessing lately that those sisters that do try sports are actually quite good. I think more of our women should become involved in athletics.

Originally posted by Nugaali: I just wanna clarify on the point of Cabdullahi Yusuf and his capacity as leader in Somalia's Northeast, i.e. Puntland. I hope the staunch CY supporters are familiar with the historical fact that, prior to the 1998 creation of 'Puntland,' the Northeast was relatively peaceful and led by the SSDF Central Committee. The point is: the Northeast has always been a place of peace with or without Cabdullahi Yusuf as 'leader.' And don't even get me started on how illegitimate his so-called leadership is. Only reason he's even alive is because people are tired of fighting the old fart. That's to say, his opposition in Puntland cares far too much for the interests of peace and prosperity than for political hunger! Well said. I hate how these posts always turn into a discussion among a bunch of horrible choices. The current of crop of candidates is an embrassment. My belief is that the only way out of this mess is to reduce the role of government, and increase the role of the private sector at least till Somalia can develop enough leaders untainted by the corrupt and bankrupt soceity that now exists.

I view the addition of Somali materials as secondary to outreach within the community. It is important to show young Somalis the value of the library and reading. Unfortunately, I am not from the UK, but perhaps you could arrange some fun and educational outreach activities with the various Somali community organizations in London. Sophist, perhaps you could point the Librarian in the direction of some appropriate community organizations. Thank you for your efforts.

This is about the only time I will agree with Horn Afrique. But Abdullahi Yusuf is a megalomaniac who is obsessed with power. If he becomes president it can only lead to one path - a dictatorship. Even the former dictator commented on his nature, I believe the quote goes, "if you think I am dictator, imagine if Abdullahi Yusuf was in power."

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the conference. It would be nice to hear from others attended. Someone mentioned that there is a conference just for students happening soon in Minneapolis. It seems to me that there have been increasing organization in the Somali community, and that is a positive sign. Hopefully this increased energy can be direct properly. peace

If all this is true about the documentary those of you in the community there should write letters to the station and the production protesting the lack of a balanced approach. Media is such a powerful force that it is important to combat every negative image.

I forgot one important thing. Waryaa, what do you mean Somalis are forgotten everywhere. How many nations have opened their arms? How many Somalis take advantage of the welfare of others? We are not entitled to anything. We should be forced to work hard and earn our keep. It is attitudes such as yours that have disgraced Somalis everywhere. We have become the ungrateful guest, the beggar, the laggard and it all disgusts me. Let the numbers speak 300,000 - 500,000 Somalis in the US 50,000 have been admitted every year for the past five years the largest African population Similar numbers in Canada Similar numbers in Europe

Forgotten yes, but who is responsible for this mess? Who bears the consequences for failure? How can such an independent and proud nation turn into a bunch of beggars? Sure, the international community has a responsiblity to assist in the return of security and stability, but in my opinion the majority of the responsibility falls on the backs of the Somali people. You might argue that the people are disenfranchised, and that is correct, but unless they regain their voice and strength Somalis will forever be at the mercy of others. 14 years have passed, and many have been affected, yet people in the forum still argue over qabiil politics. People in here still support the crooks, thugs, and murderers. The fact of the matter is that is generation of leaders are corrupted. It is time they stand aside, and make way for a new generation. I don't care if you are from my clan, region, or family, if you do you not have the honesty, modesty, intelligence and skills to serve than I will not support you. Maybe we should create a United Emirates of Somalia, so that everyone is responsible for their own successess and failures. Of course, we are forgetton, who wants to help the ungrateful? Who wants to help those without humility or modesty? Who wants to help someone who cannot help themselves?

I am torn on this topic because I agree that education about the religious and health impacts of sex before marriage is very important, but at the same time I know that it is not enough. I have said this before some belief in the superiorty of Muslim values and norms will not protect us from this most devastating of diseases. While I would hope that people exercise more restraint and discipline in their sexual relations, in practice I know this not to be so. I once asked a number of older Somalis if in Somalia thirty years ago people would have sex before marraige. Their answer, "of course, but it was harder." We know that all "muslims" are not perfect, we are human after all. A person's choice with regard to their practices are their own. From an Islamic point of view their decisions are between each of us and Allah. I am tried of so called "muslims" involving themselves in everyone else's lives. Allah said don't judge it is for him to judge all our actions. While I am against western intervention, I feel Somalis should take it upon themselves to create a system and infrastructure for combatting HIV and other problems. Methods of protection such as condoms should be part of that system. On the role of Islam, I feel Islamic education is necessary. However, I feel the current method of teaching is dangerous because it removes all capacity to think intelligently about the implications of your choses. Strict dictation of what is Haraam and Halaal are not constructive, but rather people should be given the information and tools to guide the themselves through those decisions. After all the choice is theirs alone once they reach adulthood. And the capacity to be a good and capable adult are the goals of childhood. That is why I am in favor Arabic language teaching and education in Somali, alongside Somali, because then all Somalis will have the capacity to consult the Quran and Sunnah in their orignal languages. This coupled with proper Islamic education will allow each of us to make intelligent interpertations of Islam for ourselves.

Hasna, I assume you mean prior to getting married, or the relationship becoming exclusive? This is difficult to deal with, because ideally you would trust your husband or wife completely before you decide to commit to marraige. I would probably say no, unless I knew that they had been with many people in the past, or they have cheated. Which would likely affect our relationship anyways. Mahad

brothers, I was fortunate to talk with Mr. Nurrudin Farah during a stop on his book tour here at the University of California, Berkeley. In my opinion, he is not concerned with his political aspirations but rather the apathy and disengagement of the Somali population abroad. In particular, those of us in America who participate little in Somalia's affairs. He expressed to me his disgust at the lack of involvement from those educated and skilled Somalis now residing in the USA who participate little if at all in finding solutions to the Somali problem. I tend to agree with him. A great of deal of the awareness created after the crisis of the war was due in large part to the efforts of the small diaspora in the USA and UK working tirelessly to lobby the world. These voices have now fell silent. all of us with the ability and knowledge to help Somali should assist in anyway possible rather than bickering among ourselves. your thoughts? waaq

Yusuf, it is you who has misunderstood the realities of governance. And missed my point entirely. I was not attacking Islamic systems of governance, or traditional Somali systems either, but rather pointing out that a government based on Islam will require a population that is educated on Islam and capable of intelligent interpertation of Islamic law. Any Islamic system predicated on the ulema are in my opinion subject to abuse by those same ulema without an educated populace to act as a check against their interpertation. I for one do not want some ulema using Islam to control me, when I perfectly capable on making my own interpertations of Islamic law. With the current slant towards Islamic conservatism in Somali culture I do not feel that it is the appropriate system at this juncture. This is not to be misinterperted to mean that I do not see a strong place for Islam in Somalia's affairs, for example, a court system based on shariah. If you read the works of previous Islamic scholars you will notice that some prominent scholars felt equally apprehensive about the role of ulema in Muslim soceities. Yusuf you mentioned your own fear that a Taliban style of government not arise in this Islamic state. I am merely saying that it is my fear that such a government in current conditions is an almost certainty. Given the current lack of education and open debate in Somali society the governance structure you propose is dangerous. Another issue. Yusuf we do not live in the fantasy land of a utopian islamic government, but in a real world. Name one Islamic government that not controlled by the clerics. Name one government in which the majlis is actually representative of the soceity, and is comprised of members chosen popularly to participate. People this sounds all and well in the annals of this forum, but in real life it will be a disaster. I hope at least some of you would agree that the ignorant are most open to abuse in matters of faith, because it is in these matter where they ask the least amount of questions. I want to see a Somalia that is free and open, not a judgemental society where the values of the few are imposed on the rest. I want to see a Somalia in which people are allowed to make their own choices with regard to manners of faith and behavior. How many of us see people all the time who accept without even an once of questioning matters of Islam. This cannot be so in an Islamic government if it is to function.