American Dreamers

[LayZie G.]

Muslim Americans are one of this country's greatest strengths. But they're vulnerable as never before.

 

In Muslim intellectual circles, imagining ways to accommodate these young people is topic A, but the reality is somewhat grimmer. There are so few homegrown Muslim clerics in America today—and almost no institutions for training them—that prayer in most mosques is led by a scholar fresh off the plane from Lebanon, say, or Saudi Arabia...

...and lets not forget our very own farax's who go around preaching and claiming to know more than the next person. I think we have few here in this very forum.

[underdog]

I'm sorry, I missed your point.

are you in favor of having only American raised educated clerics? and Institutions for training them (clerics) to do what? Local Imams with local knowledge? Are we trying to do away with all the parts of the eastern version that are unsuitable? "we don't like that part, just stick to this curriculum".

 

I understand there are elements of extreme misrepresentation going around, but lets not forget the there's 2 extremes to everything and I personally doubt having clerics prepped and approved by some Federal agency is the way to go.

 

Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water

[Faarax-Brawn]

^Oh Boy,He is Back! Karibu

 

This is the problem non muslim writers,They just dont seem to understand the simplicity of preaching the word. They need to know that regardless of whether an Imam is American or Lebanon educated,the message is still the same.

[LayZie G.]

I'm in favour of all educated clerics, whether they are from america, or from Hargeysa makes no difference to me, as long as they are knowledgeable of the subject in question(our faith) and have went through the process of being claimed as a muslim cleric.

 

What I am not in favour for is a Farax off a boat from yemen, who happens to set his foot somewhere in europe(after many attempts of smuggling into the country illegally) and all of a sudden found religion as means to further his interests(getting ahead in life, getting women etc).

 

Every Tom and Harry cant claim to be muslim cleric. Nowadays, thats what's going on, they are out there, they are welcomed by the local community masjids and are preaching propoganda to young minds. These children don't know any better, so they hear abdul wahab from saudia arabia or afghanistan come and tell them about paradise and how to go about getting into paradise, thats not religion.

 

Thats basically what the article is pointing to and therefore, thats what intrigued me to post this piece today.

 

Its not as if you didn't know about what was mentioned by Lisa Miller. We knew this was going on, but its getting out of hand. On one hand we demand justice, equality, freedom of religion, on the other hand, we allow our children to be taught by criminals, all in the name of DEEN. God forbid if this happens next door, but it happens all around.

 

The article wasn't saying, "leave out everything else and teach the youth of tomorrow only what is suitable in the culture they live in" as u put it.

 

It was questioning the authentecity of these so called imams. It claimed that the materials being taught is poisonous to the young muslim minds of today and its taking all hope away from the muslim youths of tomorrow.(in other words, our children have no hope if this trend continues), because the author claims that these self-claimed imams themselves were taught to preach a certain way, without having all their facts, and thats when the education comes in place. Not everyone can claim to be something and we cant just look the other way and allow it to happen.

[xiinfaniin]

^^You are probably sincere in your post but if one digs your logic a little deeper, one wonders if you buy into the line that asserts clerics are to blame for bombardments and suicide acts around the globe---the sort that’s linked to the Muslims youth!

 

You see, there’s a noisy intellectual pack in the west that reckon if the western governments had put some controls on who and what’s preached in mosques, great strides would’ve been made to minimize Muslim violence. The root cause of the bloodshed we see today in the Muslims world, and the violent reaction that occasionally occurs in the western capital, it follows to reason, if you buy into the said line that is, has everything to do with the hatred and warped ideologies that some clerics preach, and little to do with any legitimate grievances!

 

^^If find that to be a pathetic line of reasoning, and so instead of you commenting on the margins of this issue yaa LG why don’t you firstly correct me on this one!

[Gordon Gekko]

For some reason, this thread reminds me of the TV-show 'Little Mosque on the Praire'.

[N.O.R.F]

Its not about where the Imams are trained. It should be about their linguistic and inter-personal skills. Alot of Imams just dont seem to relate to the youths.

 

Has this women written any articles on the problems within the Church?

[5]

On a busload of Christian pilgrims dashing to death:

 

Me: Apparently they all died.

My Mother: Right on!

Me: Right on?

My Mother: They came from worshipping Trinity.

Me: Yes, but 'right on' is a little harsh...

My Mother: Hell will be harsher.

 

 

Hell hath no fury like my mother! Anyway, it tells a lot about us Muslims these days. We've been so pissed off, we forget what islam actually is about.

[-Lily-]

I think this argument is too simplistic & it's misleading to say it's 'getting out of control'. You need to separate the criminals from the ordinary person of faith.

 

The point is if an Imaam has had a formal Islamic education and has good interpersonal skills like North said and CAN most importantly communicate in the language of his country then I see no problem. The perfect Imaam would be someone like Yasir Qadir but you can't get one for each local mosque.

[underdog]

So who gets to decided if an Imaam is good or bad?

 

Why do we assume getting an education and applying that education are the same thing?

 

What if he has all the proper certificates and qualifications but his heart is full of hate?

 

If we don't fully understand the Diin, how can we know if our Islamic scholars are leading us the right way?

 

And if we educate ourself in the Diin, why would we need a scholar to lead us on a path we already know?

 

I'm sure we all know there are things in Islam that are deemed unacceptable by man's law. So if the Imaam brings up one such thing in a khutbah and he gets called on it, will you stand with him or against him?

 

 

In other words, WHO GETS TO DECIDE?

[5]

Originally posted by underdog:

I'm sure we all know there are things in Islam that are deemed unacceptable by man's law.

So if the Imaam brings up one such thing in a khutbah and he gets called on it, will you stand with him or against him?

I can't think of one such thing that would be obligatory. If it was deemed unacceptable in the society muslim lives in, like polygamy or marrying a "child", the muslim has a choice not to. If one wishes to follow the beloved prophet's (sas) example to the fullest - which is impossible in a secular state - they will have to move to an islamic country.

 

Hence the scenario you posed isn't problematic at all. Every muslim would stand behind the Imam in a sense that they would acknowledge where he is coming from, without following him in the matter, as what the Imam be preaching would not be obligatory.

 

I think I'm ranting. God, I haven't ranted in years, I like minimalism. What are you guys doing to me?

[underdog]

Originally posted by Nef.Ari.ous:

Every muslim would stand behind the Imam in a sense that they would acknowledge where he is coming from, without following him in the matter, as what the Imam be preaching would not be obligatory.

I think what you're saying is if an Imaam in France was to speak against the Hijab ban, you'd say "I agree with you but I not with you on this. Lets go to an Islamic country so I can vocally be on your side"

 

is that accurate?

[Ibtisam]

^^^My thoughts exactly.

 

I could think of so many examples. I assure you that Imam is not going to be making dua for Bush and Blair, or praying for their victory. For example you only go to the mosque on Friday's, no other time, by the time you have heard the introduction (opening speech dua) which every imam uses, you have already arrived at a contradiction.

 

If some federal government was to pick your imams or educate them, they are essentially censoring what you can and cannot believe or rather hear and editing out large junks. Islam is not picking and choosing what fits with your life style, it is a way of life, follow it to the best of your ability or leave it.

 

Nef. I think every Muslim inspires to follow the beloved prophet's (PBUH) example to the fullest (well they should anyway), otherwise why would i bother myself with half hearted attempts in practising? A Muslim spends their whole life trying to better themselves and reach higher stage. One should not be afraid of consequence or be apologetic about their believes simply to please others

[Che -Guevara]

Lazy....Do you want state sanctioned institution Sarkozy style where local Imams will be trained to conform to French "Islam".

 

 

Mandating religion is never good idea. That's Islam isn't an organized religion like Roman Catholicism.

[Som@li]

In most of the Muslim countries, the speaches of the Imams are controlled,and is prepared by ministry of religous affairs, And I guest the US, and west are trying to do the same.( Many muslims have more freedom in the west,and some honetly abuse it).

 

Then if the Imams cant deliver what they want to say, and they are told on what to say, Is it necessary to go to mosques anymore? what is the purpose?