Clan enclaves & Villa Somalia at odds.

[galbeedi]

Yoniz,

 

I wish I had some. I am revolutionary ,and i do not like slow moving lazy people who can not dig even small water well.

 

On the other hand , I am totally against what is going on in Galmudug. The man explained his position on Dubai. He knew without cash and paying of the salary . he will not survive the campaign of the federal government to depose him. When I said last week that I desire the demise of the federal states as they stand now, does not mean the creating of anarchy and instability.

 

Khayre and Farmaajo should be very careful of overthrowing elected leaders without just cause. C/kariim Guleed was deposed without cause and notice , and now Xaaf, that is illegal. He made mistakes , about openly challenging the government, but at least he was honest. Xaaf is a warlord , and Galmudug needs a tough guy who can subdue all this factions including the anarchist Ehlu Shar of Galgaduud. He is correct by threatening and using force. you can not depose a leader without a majority vote and debate inside the parliament. Few guys met in a hotel and declared that they fired their leader.

 

If we have to change the way the current federal system is managed, it has to be a national dialogue , and political will to enforce the new replacement. In my opinion Farmaajo is replacing these guys in order to put his own people in the leadership position in order to influence the next election. What he does not understand is that is what destroyed Hassan sheikh's chances of building institutions. If you start worrying about re-election and influence pedaling, you lose on both sides.

 

Further more. If we have to kill or eliminate the federal syatem as it is practised today, then, we shall slay first the mother of all federal regions.

 

Hadii anyu Isla garano in aynu gawracno dawlad goboleedyada, waxa lagama maarmaan ah in aynu ka takhlusno hooyadii u horaysay ee kuwan dhashay amaba wadada u xaadhay: Puntland..

 

Hiiraan is broke and her feeding tube is Khayre and the federal government, South West is weak in terms of governance ,and all you have to do is eliminate Shariif Hassan; Kismaayo is under the protection of the Kikuyo, and as soon as we kick them out of Somalia does the Raascaambooni boys.

 

If you want to send a good example of your intentions, then you must destroy Puntland. The fat man in Garoowe is out of touch. He is flying around to get some badly needed cash to crown himself again, but he has already failed the basic test.

 

 

Unlike the so called educated chief of Puntland these elders just read the fine print For the thirty years, deal of Dp world, , they are not allowed to build a fishing port or any other commercial entity in 300 square kilometer. . They have given up every thing concerning their future businesses opportunities for 30 years for these Dubai project . If the ARabs make 30 million a year that could hit a billion in 30 years. The leader already cashed 15 million , and the rest will not be different than false promise of Berbera project.

 

Next August, 2018, Puntland will be 20 years old. So far not one single city counsel is elected or a governor elected by the people of Puntland There is no credible public finances for 20 years. All we see is the motorcade of the fat leaders with red carpet after they fly from Mogadishu to Boosaaso. Folks, if the time comes to destroy these dirty pounds of Somalia,we have to star from the mother who bear these children.

 

It does not take much. I know where to start.

 

Wax kasta oo been lagu dhiso wuu dumaa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[YoniZ]

The exact thing I was advicing you against, to not destroy but CHANGE. We are very good at finding the other Nomads' weaknesses and exploit them. Every diaspora political commentator is good at that. We exercised this zero zum game and, got nothing other than meyham in the past three decades.

 

The lack of civilised change mentality is what destroyed the social fabric of this nation.

 

The corrupt fat guy fron Noth America sounded just like you. Before he became president, he was singing about the weaknesses of his predicessor and, all the social ills of the state. Did he changed anything about these problems? not at all. He exploited them to his personal advantage.

 

To put it blatantly and, in frank fashion. Being an educated man and a patriot, you can start something fresh and constructive, other than the above failed approach. We know all the ills, let us start thinking about how to cure them.

[Suldaanka]

A very interesting talk back held by VOA Somali regarding Somalia's Clan Federalism.

 

Like I mentioned previously, the upcoming conflict that will unravel the phantom government in Villa Somalia is the conflict between Centralist & Clan Federalists.

 

 

https://www.voasomali.com/a/4049577.html

[maakhiri1]

^Thanks for the link.

 

Long time ago I came to conclusion, Federalism is not right, and who came up with was either misinformed, imposed on the top, or could not get alternative SOMALIS agree on, that time, because of the pain and trauma, of the civil war

 

Like the guy who is trying to defend the Federalism, and yet can come up with no reason why it is good, or how will it build a strong Federal state, people who want Federalism can be grouped into

 

No clue, Have no idea what Federalism is

Have hidden agenda, want to break the country apart

have a clan agenda(Sidan bay noogu badisaa)

Working with SOMALIS enemies, to weaken SOMALIA

 

 

And then those who had seen a bad central government, dictatorship, and afraid choosing a unitary system will lead to dictatorship and abuse. with this fear, can we be happy and accept a very weak Federalism State? The group can be talked to and shown with extra care, a strong systems , a democratic state, that looks after all citizens can be achieved.

 

The alternative of strong central SOMALI state, with regions elect their leaders, is crap federalism, weak government, mini states, confusions, identity crisis, massive bureaucracy and red tape, Too many fat cats running around,(If you ever drived from DUBAI to ABU DHABI, on that highway, you will notice, the road itself change once you cross the border from DUBAI to ABU DHABI, signs, rules, the street lights, everything change, and they can afford. The police, the license, It is bureaucracy nightmare. Can Somalis afford this many mini States, Many leaders fattening themselves on the meagre SOMALI resource?

 

About 10 years ago, I was working in India, at my hotel, I had a discussion with hotel manager and he told me one of the biggest hostage that is holding India back is many states, too much bureaucracy, different tariffs between states, licence plates. Else, different laws, India would be like China, or stronger.

 

As SOMALI with no bias, and thinking what can be good for SOMALIS and SOMALIA and make somalia great again, FEDERALISM is not the answer.

 

So before we sleep walk, let us think, THINK, and think of constructive options, positive way of getting rid off it, before we sleep walk into minefield.

 

Another article to read, for SULDAANKA, Australia , which has a strong effective federalism, and yet there are issues between states all the time, and at one of the great leaders and statesman of that country, Bob Hawke, at 87, seeing what is only great for Australia,

 

https://theconversation.com/heed-hawkes-call-australian-federalism-is-an-idea-whose-time-has-ended-71001

[maakhiri1]

^Thanks for the link.

 

Long time ago I came to conclusion, Federalism is not right, and who came up with was either misinformed, imposed on the top, or could not get alternative SOMALIS agree on, that time, because of the pain and trauma, of the civil war

 

Like the guy who is trying to defend the Federalism, and yet can come up with no reason why it is good, or how will it build a strong Federal state, people who want Federalism can be grouped into

 

No clue, Have no idea what Federalism is

Have hidden agenda, want to break the country apart

have a clan agenda(Sidan bay noogu badisaa)

Working with SOMALIS enemies, to weaken SOMALIA

 

 

And then those who had seen a bad central government, dictatorship, and afraid choosing a unitary system will lead to dictatorship and abuse. with this fear, can we be happy and accept a very weak Federalism State? The group can be talked to and shown with extra care, a strong systems , a democratic state, that looks after all citizens can be achieved.

 

The alternative of strong central SOMALI state, with regions elect their leaders, is crap federalism, weak government, mini states, confusions, identity crisis, massive bureaucracy and red tape, Too many fat cats running around,(If you ever drived from DUBAI to ABU DHABI, on that highway, you will notice, the road itself change once you cross the border from DUBAI to ABU DHABI, signs, rules, the street lights, everything change, and they can afford. The police, the license, It is bureaucracy nightmare. Can Somalis afford this many mini States, Many leaders fattening themselves on the meagre SOMALI resource?

 

About 10 years ago, I was working in India, at my hotel, I had a discussion with hotel manager and he told me one of the biggest hostage that is holding India back is many states, too much bureaucracy, different tariffs between states, licence plates. Else, different laws, India would be like China, or stronger.

 

As SOMALI with no bias, and thinking what can be good for SOMALIS and SOMALIA and make somalia great again, FEDERALISM is not the answer.

 

So before we sleep walk into minefield,, let us think, THINK, and think of constructive options, positive way of getting rid off it.

 

Another article to read, for SULDAANKA, Australia , which has a strong effective federalism, and yet there are issues between states all the time, Bob Hawke, at 87, seeing what is only great for Australia,

 

https://theconversation.com/heed-hawkes-call-australian-federalism-is-an-idea-whose-time-has-ended-71001

[maakhiri1]

^Thanks for the link.

 

Long time ago I came to conclusion, Federalism is not right, and who came up with was either misinformed, imposed on the top, or could not get alternative SOMALIS agree on, that time, because of the pain and trauma, of the civil war, or witnessed bad unitary State.

 

Like the guy who is trying to defend the Federalism, and yet can come up with no reason why it is good, or how will it build a strong Federal state, people who want Federalism can be grouped into

 

No clue, Have no idea what Federalism is

Have hidden agenda, want to break the country apart

have a clan agenda(Sidan bay noogu badisaa)

Working with SOMALIS enemies, to weaken SOMALIA

 

And then those who had seen a bad central government, dictatorship, and afraid choosing a unitary system will lead to dictatorship and abuse. with this fear, can we be happy and accept a very weak Federalism State? forge ahead for the unknown, The group can be talked to and shown with extra care, a strong systems , a democratic state, that looks after all citizens can be achieved.

 

The alternative of strong unitary SOMALI state, with regions elect their leaders, is crap federalism, weak government, mini states, confusions, identity crisis, massive bureaucracy and red tape, Too many fat cats running around, If you ever drived from DUBAI to ABU DHABI, on that highway, you will notice, the road itself change once you cross the border from DUBAI to ABU DHABI, signs, rules, the street lights, everything change, and they can afford. The police, the license, It is bureaucracy nightmare. Can Somalis afford this many mini States, Many leaders fattening themselves on the meagre SOMALI resource? and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

About 10 years ago, I was working in India, at my hotel, I had a discussion with hotel manager and he told me one of the biggest hostage that is holding India back is many states, too much bureaucracy, different tariffs between states, licence plates. Else, different laws, India would be like China, or stronger.

 

As SOMALI with no bias, and thinking what can be good for SOMALIS and SOMALIA and make somalia great again, FEDERALISM is not the answer.

 

So before we sleep walk into minefield, let us think, THINK, and think of constructive options, positive way of getting rid off it.

 

 

Many countries, including Ethiopia are facing nightmares because of federalism, and either will break apart, or get rid off it.

 

http://hornaffairs.com/2017/06/10/challenges-ethiopias-federalism/

 

 

Another article to read, for SULDAANKA, Australia , respected Statesman, Bob Hawke, on Federalism

 

https://theconversation.com/heed-hawkes-call-australian-federalism-is-an-idea-whose-time-has-ended-71001

[Peace Action]

Kadar oo dibi dhal, Galbeedi is now advocating the destruction of the mother of federalsim Puntland, as Yoniz said it is very easy to destroy quickly then to build. Building and making progress takes time and effort. Fortunately Somalia is way past the destructive face, notwithstanding keyboard warriors sipping their lattes advocating the return of anarchy or the failed dictatorship centralized one city rule of Somalia. Puntland made progress as a self governing state of Somalia before feralism and is making progress as a federal state. Why will Puntlanders be against progress of their region?

 

Federalism is a successful form of government that is practiced in many countries including the United State. It will take some time for Somalis to implement fully the proper federal governing system but we are heading in the right direction. We have seen progress since the federal system was adapted and even when there are problems the solution may be crude but is implemented peacefully. What we have now is collective leadership of all the regions headed by the president and the prime minister and even when there are conflicts, there is mechanism to arrive solution with consensus. We are way past shooting wars of the past for those of you who are hoping for some action.

 

The issue of DP World and the Bosaso port is already done deal, Puntland govt signed the agreement and the Parliament approved it. My understanding is that some residents of old Bosaso near the port are upset because the port expansion requires all nearby houses to be demolished and the owners are not happy with the compensation. They are right to protest to get fair compensation for their property and hopefully they will inshaallah.

 

 

The problem with Somali anarchist is that they are always unhappy with any system. You don't have any alternative system currently that will work in Somalia. If you do, please tell us and how you will implement it peacefully.

[Suldaanka]

Maakhiri,

Glad you have mentioned Australia's federal form of governance. To understand the full picture of how this came about, you need to go back to colonial period and how the different colonies were formed.

 

Australia's federation was born out of a necessity, in terms of easing people movement, trade barriers and most importantly establishing common defence as Australia was/still is a sparsely populated large body of land which is surrounded by highly populated countries like Indonesia, Japan, China etc.

 

Colonial Australia was ruled independently by the UK as 6 distinct dominions each having a Governor that acted as head of state which was appointed by the Queen.

 

So when the time came that the UK granted them independence, the choice was between establishing a Federal form of governance or the formation of 6 independent States.

 

A centralist form of governance was not even considered at that time, reason being the reality of fully functioning States was already there with all the trappings of a self governance. A centralist form of governance not only would have disrupted long standing political norms, but it would not be fit for such a large body of land.

 

One of the mostly cited point of contention when the Commonwealth was being established was the city which will host the government. Both the two largest cities Melbourne and Sydney fought tooth & nail to become the capital of the new nation. However, when there was no agreement was reached on this issue, a new Capital city was created. Canberra became the capital which is located geographically somewhere in the middle of two larger cities.

 

Indeed this form Federal governance is very expansive to run & maintain. But it is worked so far very well.

 

In terms of Somalia, the Federal form of Governance is a "gacan ku rimis". I don't think it is the type of governance that the majority of the people of ex-Italian Somalia would have chosen. We all wait how far Villa Somalia will go inside this rabbit hole.

[galbeedi]

Let me say few words to the new guy Garas,

 

Waxaanu is lahayn Lat iyo Cuze iyo magacdii Kufaarta Maka ay la bixi jireen ka bedela oo ku soo dara Soomaalihood ka .

 

Yet, he started ridding the Red neck Somali horse.. Brother, you can not get any points by putting down other Somalis by comparing our brothers and sisters in Bay to Oromo refugees. You are from my side.

 

The truth is the people of Bay were never refugees or people who would go to places like Mudug. In fact, it was other Somalis from Sool, Togdheer and central regions who used to settle South west in the seventies and eighties due to droughts. These people are confederate tribes and anyone can join them. That is a beautiful concept.

 

In middle of eighties, during the national service , I was in a nice town called Wanlaweyn (Daafeed) few hundred kilometers from Baydhabo. I was lucky enough to visit once Baydhabo . During the trip from Wanlaweyn to Baydhabo, every thing seemed to be unusually tall. The camel were tall and were chased by young tall men with Afro style hair . When I reached Baydhabo Janaay, The women were tall just like the " baxarsaaf' described by the legendary singer Hassan Aadan Samatar:

 

 

 

By the way if you happen to be Baydhabo, the local radio will be playing this song. Do not be surprised , but try to learn the language.

 

 

Maakhiri1 said No clue, Have no idea what Federalism is

Have hidden agenda, want to break the country apart

have a clan agenda(Sidan bay noogu badisaa)

Working with SOMALIS enemies, to weaken SOMALIA

 

saaxiib, by far this is the best statements a good Somali said about the false clan federation sold to our people. You got the passion for your people and the education. I see the patience , wisdom and calmness of Che, which is like a mountain, i see the young Yoniz and his cool hotheadedness, and others like Peace Action, who have reluctance to change things. Folks, we can take our country back.

 

After the judge condemns to death the criminal who killed, raped and pillaged the land , he should not be crying about the execution of the criminal. I will crush the clans and their agenda without shedding any tears.

 

 

PeaceAction,

 

Saaxiib I did not want to destroy them now, but in the future I will. , we either change them as they are or completely transform them. Puntland accomplished few things, but that is small for twenty years. Of course couple of presidents have changed hand, Garoowe is getting bigger, The thieves of Dubai had promised to build Bosaaso and so on. As I stated , next year will be twenty years and the budget of that whole region is 30 million a years. One wonders, what kind of top down bureaucracy or government system needed to manage a $30 million budget. Policing, education,public health, transport, and public works agencies to build badly needed infrastructure . Yet the leaders have appointed 53 ministers, deputy ministers and state ministers. None of these people will be delivering the basic service needed by the people. Each one of them is be given a $30,000 luxury car. That is the dilemma. If you take away the NGO cash cow Puntland will fold.

 

Dubai is not only destroying Yemen, but they are reviving the old South Yemen to weaken and divide. THey want to control the Baab El man-dab water way for future trades. Every thinking man knows these thieves do not need ports, but are seeking monopoly in their own ports to stop future competition.

 

 

20 years in SOMALIA is like 30 years in the real world, because over there the time is still moving slow. You would wake up in the morning and spend half a day not doing much, have a lunch, do your Duhur prayer, take a three hour nap, wake up go to the market , pray " Casar" and you still have all the afternoon until the sun goes down. In twenty years the people and their way of life could have been transformed

 

By destroying the pounds, you will not destroy a working bureaucracy or a memory data that would have been transferred to the next generation. I went to Borama in 2011, and when I visited the mayor's office, all a saw was a big office , a young secretary doing nothing ,but telling people when the mayor will be coming and a soldier with a gun. Imagine a city over hundred thousand people and there is no any municipal workforce, city manager, accounting office or public heath office who manages manages the day to day needs of the city. The mayor just showed up around 10:30 and after one hour he want for lunch and then to the Qat session. My friends , you will not be destroying anything, in fact , all you do is eliminate a corrupt system designed to keep the people disorganized and weak.

 

 

Go visit to Kigali in Rwanda, a town built after 1994 massacre. You will be ticketed if you cross the road without right of the way, or if you throw litter to the ground.

 

 

Somalis have enough excuses of blaming every thing on Siyaad Barre. He was burred almost 25 years ago, and Somalia was not the only nation that went from dictatorship to democracy or a mixed of systems. Chile was under dictator Pinochet, Argentina was under military Junta, Turkey were ruled by military and many other places, and these countries are working fine. Folks, if we are interested about building institutions or delegating of power to the local people , this is not the right or it is not working at all.

 

AS our friend Maakhir said, it is , " Sidanay iigu badisaa" or setting up tribal homeland to challenge for power and keep the false bride . Shabeelaha Hoose has more people than the combined population of Togdheer, Sool ,Sanaag and Nugaal. The people of Puntland wanted a place to find peace and progress after the destruction of the capital by USC forces. They wanted a place no one can chase them again (meel ay aayahooda uga tashadaan), but their ambitious leaders had another agenda which was to make Puntland a ladder to reach the Somali power, thus all the resources were targeted on that agenda.

 

Somali clan federal states will never accept fair or free election, for 25 years, not one single enclave has conducted a free election based on designated regional borders and city zones. Puntland is called, Nugaal, Bari, W.Mudug, Sool, Sanaag iyo Cayn (Buuhoodle). These are the tribal homelands of the Harti, and can not be implemented in those terms. It is just a tribal zones , but there will never be a credible institutions. They already named other clan based regions like Karkaar and Gaardafuu. The Punties are just copying from the crazy entity in the north west.

 

 

Somaliland regions used to be Sool, Sanaag, Togdheer, W,Galbeed and Awdal. Today, in order to bribe the stupid tribes with their own money, they created three times more regions (Gobolo). Togdheer districs of Sheikh, Oodweyne, Caynabo and Buuhoodle are made of new "Gobolo" to bribe the tribes. Now , The district of Oodweyne is called " Gobolka Daad Madheedh" a one single town gobol. Caynabo is called " Gobolka Sarar, and Buuhoodle is called Gobolka Buuhoodle. These tribes will not get one single service, but a do nothing governor will get a landcruiser and a body gurad. These small meager of money would have dug a well or other services.

 

The Woqoyi Galbeed region with Hargeisa as the capital were Berbera, Gabiley, Cadaadley iyo Hargeisa. Now, Bebera is Saaxil region, Gabiley, just 40 km from west of Haregeisa is Gobolka Gabiley, and in the new Salaxley district, there is " Gobolka Hawd. Hargeisa it self is called Maroodi Jeex. Can you imagine these Habro has changed two region and made them eight false regions. . They could have created counties with boundaries and taxing jurisdictions and other services, but they decided to mislead the people by telling them " gobol baan idin siinay".

 

 

Folks, Somalia has went crazy in terms of governance and regional administration. Something must be done. You either keep your false entity or you for a real administration with real services to deliver.

 

PeaceAction, I do not mean to destroy every thing, but unless we have to meet in the middle and find ways to help the people, The status quo is undermining progress and nation building. Finally you have to swallow your tribal pride and build a safe place for all Somalis to find a refuge in this world which is becoming dangerous every day.

 

Somalis need a functioning stable state than can defend it's borders, citizens and unity while building bridges to the wider world for trade and economic growth. Tribes and enclaves can not achieve that goal only the Somali state.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Suldaanka]

 

 

Somaliland regions used to be Sool, Sanaag, Togdheer, W,Galbeed and Awdal. Today, in order to bribe the stupid tribes with their own money, they created three times more regions (Gobolo). Togdheer districs of Sheikh, Oodweyne, Caynabo and Buuhoodle are made of new “Gobolo” to bribe the tribes. Now , The district of Oodweyne is called ” Gobolka Daad Madheedh” a one single town gobol. Caynabo is called ” Gobolka Sarar, and Buuhoodle is called Gobolka Buuhoodle. These tribes will not get one single service, but a do nothing governor will get a landcruiser and a body gurad. These small meager of money would have dug a well or other services.

 

The Woqoyi Galbeed region with Hargeisa as the capital were Berbera, Gabiley, Cadaadley iyo Hargeisa. Now, Bebera is Saaxil region, Gabiley, just 40 km from west of Haregeisa is Gobolka Gabiley, and in the new Salaxley district, there is ” Gobolka Hawd. Hargeisa it self is called Maroodi Jeex. Can you imagine these Habro has changed two region and made them eight false regions. . They could have created counties with boundaries and taxing jurisdictions and other services, but they decided to mislead the people by telling them ” gobol baan idin siinay”.

 

Galbeedi,

 

I am against the creation of all of these mini-me clan regions. I am glad these were just announced and not yet added to the constitution.

 

To change the constitution, 75% of parliament needs to agree to the amendments. No gov't has yet got that number. So these announcements are not yet constitutional and with a stroke of a pen can be null & void.

 

On another note, what makes you think Afwayne's creation of Sool & Awdal region among other clan regions during his haydays was "Kosher"?

 

I think for Somaliland, we should go back to the original 2 regions as inherited on 26th of June 1960. That was easier to maintain, less bureaucracy and most importantly it created high dynamic regional administration.

[gooni]

federaalku waa iskasoo af jarmi ama ha dhawaato ama ha dheeraato

 

puntland waxay sheegtaa inay hooyo u tahay afarta maamul, dastuurkeeduna ka fac wayn yahay kan dawladda dhaxe.

 

Sida muuqata ama bilaabatay is barbar yaacu wuxuu keenayaa inay maamuladda curdankaa wada saqiiraan ayadoo hooyadood oo qrux badan ag fadhido.

 

Aragtidayda waxaa la gudboon walaalaheen puntland inay badasho siyaasaddan labo boglayntaa oo meel ku uruurto inta gooru goor tahay.

 

Mushkiladda soomaaliyoo dhan la kici wayday aragtidayda waa "qab" galay nimankaan isku magacaabay beelaha muqdisho,lagamana yaabo inay qalbi daacada la yimaadaan aqlabiyadoodu.

 

sanitooradoodu iyo xildhibaankoodu waa dagaal ooge somali barkeed soo cunay,xaakimkooduna waa ganacsade labo af leh oo dhankuu doono wax u gooya, ayagaana nabadoon iyo samo wadeba ah.

 

Dhalinyaradaan qurbaha wax kusoo baratay oo hogaanka wadanka loo dhiibay waa ragg wada shaqayn kara balse waxay la mid yihiin bakayle god dawaco lagu xareeyay, hadday soo nabad baxaan waa mucjiso rabbi.

 

Puntland waxaan kula talin lahaa daacad noqda oo u sheega walaalaha koonfureed inaad tihiin dawlad ka fac wayn kana madax banaan kuna dhawaaqdaan is maamul gooni ah arimihiisa dibadda, dhaqaalaha, gudaha aan wax shaqo ah ku lahayn koonfurta.

 

odayaashaan xamar joogana lagasoo kaxeeyo si ay kaluunka imaaraadka wax uga dhoofiyaan waliba siminaaro iyo dhaqan celin badan ha loo sameeyo.

 

taas waxay keenaysaa ixtiraam caalami ah iyo mid gudaha ah sida kosovo iyo misedonia.

 

Haddiise federaal aan sharciyaddiisa la rabin lagu marmarsiyoodo waa khiyaano qaran aakhiro iyo aduuna barako ma leh.