Mooshin Against PM

[CidanSultan]

Fake nationalists. No one knows what the objective is. No one knows anything.

 

 

[thefuturenow]

We see your narrow agenda. It is only to cause trouble between Somali brothers. You hope that your constant vitriolic, hate-filled rants will get Somalis to insult other Somalis.

 

But we're smarter than that. We know that no one fool on the internet can represent the good people of Somaliland. We know that the likes of you are a dying breed. And that is why you are here--LOUDER THAN EVERYONE else; trying to convince us that you and your ideology of hatred and division still matter.

 

No.

 

You don't.

 

Good riddance.

[Homunculus]

CidaanSultan, Why don't you calm down a little bit, you can present your points without resorting to insults. To my surprise I actually agree with you on some points, though comparing other Somalis to monkeys is taking it too far ( don't forget that there was similar behaviour in Somaliland's Parliament). Yes, all this constitution posturing and ministerial shuffling has clannish roots, it's also true that the government doesn't see to care about its people as much as stealing money that was supposed to help them. This infighting is a big setback, but it might be a golden opportunity. Any notion of a central control of Somalia is out of the window now, this president is compromising everything he stands for just to score some cheap points against the prime minister. Bribing the parliament was a stroke of genius (just kidding), the world sees now that they can't depend on some corrupt officials in Mogadishu, the road to federalism is cemented and the power of the president, pm and parliament will be enormously reduced.

[Mintid Farayar]

If you take out the spin by the respective supporters of the FG President and PM, the US finds itself in a difficult situation. The US surprised the world by fully vesting itself in the still embroyic Hassan Sheik FG by granting immediate 'State-to-State' recognition shortly after the formation of this administration, an unprecedented step denied to all previous Somali political constructs. This was done without any signs of forward movement on 'State-Building'. It was simply based on a hope that the prestige of U.S. legitimacy would help a broken system work better this time.

 

One must remember that 'State-policy' is formed and executed by individual human beings, both in Somalia and the US. Many professional reputations are on the line within Western capitals, especially in Foggy Bottom, Washington, DC (if the Hassan Sheikh FG follows the footsteps of the A. Yusuf and Sheikh Sharif administrations in the road to failure).

 

There's also a Western annoyance with the role of certain regional States in the Muslim world in using their overflowing cash coffers to influence Somali politics for their own regional interests. This at a time when Western treasuries are squeezed tight by the aftermath of 'The Great Recession' and budget cuts. Hence, the Western hysteria over parliamentary MP vote-buying, as if this is something new to Mogadishu parliaments.

 

Ultimately, U.S. and Western interests are concerned with Somalia primarily from a security/extremist prevention strategy so Somalia doesn't continue to play its recent role as a great destabilizer of far-greater Western interests in the Greater East African region

[galbeedi]

Debating a motion in the parliament or voting democratically is part of democracy. Intimidating, threatening and murdering them for speaking bout is really a crime that can't be allowed to continue. Here in this town we have three members of parliament who have families here and visit regularly.

 

Friend of mine met one of them this afternoon. He asked him about C/laahi , a formal high school teacher from Sool region who has joined the parliament two years ago. He said few months ago he was shot in Mogadishu , but survived. He said armed gun men sprayed bullets in his car. After the first burst of bullets, he hid under the steering wheel, while bullets were flying around. After they left , by standers came to his aid. fortune, he was wounded lightly.

 

He said , his only crime was speaking inside the parliament and denounce the President. It is really alarming that a mafia which is part of the president are hunting innocent people. This are not Al-shabaab related murders , but politically motivated crimes.

 

He said this President is really out to get his opponents through criminal network that si murdering people. I am shocked really.

[YoniZ]

<cite>

@galbeedi

said:</cite>

it is a bad system of government. co-habitation of president and prime minister without political patties holding the balance of power is a constant squabble. Expect to happen every single year.

 

If the motion goes to the parliament, the only good that comes of this is the President stood up against foreign pressure. if you look back, the Somali leaders disputed with petty issues. prolonged and exhaustive reconciliations by Somalis and others produced no results. finally , the united Nations or someone else flew from Nairobi and all of sudden the issue was resolved.

 

This president is playing hard ball. He rejected the foreign meddling of Somalia. he argued that these issues are solved by Somalis not outsiders. It seems he got a backbone to say no from those who pay the bill. I was one of those who thought Nicholas Kay as the President behind the curtain , but Qoslaaye proved us wrong. If he holds his ground, that is going to be a new beginning.

 

I will add my two cents here and say current path is 'organic growth' rather than cosmetic fixing.

 

The chaos we see from both sides is wider reflection of the society today. It is improvement from the days of 'anagaa qabsanay magaalo heblaayo'.

 

Even this vote of no confidence is an improvement to the previous one where everything went smooth and Saacid was even denied the chance to speak to the parliamentarians and defend himself.

 

No 'benevolent dictator' or pampered sense of fake nationalism will do any good, natural growth from chaos to normality is a long way, but the best way to get out of this downslope and not come back to it.

 

Geedkii orod lagu koro, orod baa looga soo dagaa. Marka si tartiib ah geedka dowladnimada halugu koro, kadibna meel sare halaga fariisto.

 

 

[CidanSultan]

Ideology of hatred? What on earth are you talking about or have you come down with delusional fake nationalist syndrome. What part of I am the only one who has ever critised the occupation, death and destruction of the Somali people is hatred. Or are you just slow.

 

You failed to even produce one thread or one comment stating your opposition to the serious matters of rape, death and occupation. Yet I am the Hate filled one. These fake nationalists.

 

You can't produce evidence so you try and cast my character into doubt. Typical dirty fake nationalist tactics.

 

Not one of you fake nationalists has had a meaningful chat about rape, about AU occupation, about the problems yet you are All here when it comes to more tribal tit for tat nonsense.

 

Hence why I call fake nationalists worst then monkeys like I said monkeys at least have an objective.

 

Truly that is foolish and makes you lot the real fools.

 

So don't attempt to sleazyly undermine my character. You fake nationalist. I don't see you critiquing the death and destruction of Somalis.

[CidanSultan]

After 23 of failure due to pretending to be nationalists the reality is finally downing on these fake nationalists. Truth being after 23 years your still at this stage.

 

 

 

Pathetic people walahi.

[CidanSultan]

I also don't buy your slow development. It's been 23 years how slower can you get. In 5 months the Islamic courts union not only unified Somalia but they created order and stability and transparency. Without 1 penny given to them by the world. Showing that there is a fundamental problem in your entire concept. Today we had a debate that was more civilised then chair throwing is not the point. The point is you have made no significant progress towards order and stability and independence. You are in effect worser off today then 23 years ago at least then you only fought each other. Today you have Burundi and Uganda and Kenya as leverages against one another.

 

If they left tomorrow you would be in a greater chaos then ever.

[YoniZ]

Waryaa CidanShaydan, Arinta difaaca qadiyada Waqooyi u daa raga odayaasha ah. Orodoo Daacish iyo meel baas ka sheekee

 

Maalinta aad noqotid qof misaaman 'stable character' ayaad heli kartaa qof kula dooda.

[CidanSultan]

Don't cry when the truth is spoken. That's another ironic characteristic of fake nationalists when you tell them the truth they ethier try to discredit you with nonsense or simple can't say anything.

 

These are the jokers who are going to supposedly bring about a future for the Somalian people. These tribalist who have not once critised the occupation, subjugation and molestation of their own land. Who take pride in Kenyan and Ugandans pissing on them.

 

Give me a break.

 

Fake nationalist = scum

[DoctorKenney]

<cite>

@thefuturenow

said:</cite>

If you're not an idealist, then you must be a life counselor because you love the word "should, should, should."

 

Akh, politics is the world of CAN. Every man enters it with a checklist of things he "should" do and things he "wants" to do. But, if you have lived life to adulthood, you know that what you "should" and "want" to do quickly take a back seat to what

can

be done.

 

And all those things that you're saying the president should have done. They don't need a president to solve. Those problems are waiting for YOU and I i.e. the Somali people.

 

A reformer is nothing more than a politician with good luck and a lot of friends to write nice things about him after his death. True reformation is internal and for each individual.

 

But, if you mean government reform, then there is nothing to reform. We just got started trying to become a modern State. Our problem is the people. And it will take time before they can start trusting each other again.

 

 

P.S. The somali constitution is incomplete and unclear. It says the PM must consult with President. That consultation may mean many different things. It may mean that he needs to inform the president or seek his approval. That is a major difference. And in the absence of institutions to settle this dispute, this political struggle is the alternative.

 

In other words, he who wins gains those powers that are being fought over right now PERMANENTLY. Think about it. If the PM is ousted for re-shuffling the president's men, it will never be attempted again by another PM if the Somali state lives on.

 

This is not a futile fight my brother. This is for (most) of the marbles.

 

Sorry for the late reply, I really got caught up and I couldn't get to a computer.

 

TheFutureNow, yes I agree that the task of reforming Somali Society isn't all on Culusow's shoulders. But he's fully responsible on sparking a Somali reformation, he's responsible for getting the wheels moving. He's in the unique position of being President of a country that's currently in turmoil, but he has the benefit of having international funding.

 

So why doesn't he use his uniquely beneficial position to affect real change in the country? Why does he spend so much time on petty, trivial matters? He should instead focus his energies on building up support across the country. I would expect him to be in Hobyo, in Beledweyne, in Qardho, and in other cities building up support and trying to help set up the establishment of civil administrations across the country. I want him to be visiting refugee camps every month, talking to the civilians in Somalia, and promising to assist them when he gets the ability to.

 

He needs to demonstrate a genuine love for his people. And I'm not seeing it. Somali women are being raped every single day and children are dying through starvation. Hundreds of thousands of our own people are in refugee camps outside of Xamaar. And I don't see the President treating this as a serious matter.

 

I'm not asking for much saaxib. I'm not demanding Culusow be like Umar bin Khattab or Suleiman the Magnificent. I'm not even asking him to be like Aden Cadde. All I'm asking for is a moderately good politician to lead our country. If he was as good as Abdiweli Gaas in Puntland, then I wouldn't even be typing this. But Culusow is even worse than Sheikh Shariif ever was. He's far more corrupt and far less willing to tackle the problems in our country.

 

The people are corrupt, I agree. But we really don't have time to wait 30 years for the mentality of the Somali people to slowly change. The mentality of Somalis can ONLY change through peace and education. When Somalia is in chaos....that's naturally going to have a negative effect on the mentality of the people.

 

Culusow should focus ONLY on securing the country and kicking out the Bantu soldiers. That's ALL that matters right now. When US President George Washington was fighting against the British in 1776, he wasn't focused on such petty, trivial issues. He was focused on expelling the British from his country, and securing his territory. That was ALL that mattered at the time. AND THEN after the war was finished, he then focused on less important issues. Because George Washington knew what was important. And he was an intelligent man. So why isn't Culusow focused solely on defeating Al Shabab and kicking out these Ugandan soldiers out of Somalia?

 

Does he not see his job as important?

[thefuturenow]

Dr.K, I feel and understand your frustration. But we have to put things into context.

 

Consider Somaali political history after 1960. Within a decade, there was a presidential assassination and a military coup. Less than a decade after that, the insurrections began; one rebellion after another. And then the civil war, ICU, ethiopian invasion, Al-Shabaab, drones, Shariif Axmad's new suit, Hillary Clinton and the handshake heard around the world

 

And that's just the surface. The details are a lot uglier and well documented on SOL.

 

At this moment in history, "Somalia"--as we discuss it--is not a political reality. It is an idea. There is not a Somali nation but there are Somali nationS--SL, KH, PL, MG, JL, Al-Shabaab etc etc. All these mini-nations are political realities. And this thing we call "Federal Somalia" is only a borrowed dollar and a dream in Muqdisho.

 

The president's job is to make this dream a reality. But not everyone shares this dream. And even among those who share the dream, each sees a different version. And guess what else? Each one of these mini-nations have their 'own borrowed' dollars and dinars. And guns. Everyone has guns.

 

That is a recipe for catastrophe. The idea of "Somalia" is undermined each time leaders of these mini-nations meet with foreign leaders as Presidents of a territory within Somalia. It is also undermined each time a foreign company signs a deal with these mini-nations. And every time AS attacks.

 

And yes, I agree with you that the best method to realize this "Federal Somalia" dream is through internal deal-making and negotiations. But there is a reason we have the political history that we have--we don't like to co-operate and we don't trust each other. Now it is even worse because the dream of "Federal Somalia" will sideline many men who are benefiting from the status quo. Each of these men will put up a vicious fight before yielding power.

 

Thus, the political reality is that the President has to undermine all these men for the same reason they are undermining him----to realize his own vision for "Federal Somalia." He has to convince world leaders that he is the one and only president of a real political entity known as "Somalia." He has to make sure there is only one nation, one army, one flag from Saylaac to Kaambooni. That is why the president can't stroll through "Somali" cities shaking hands and kissing babies. The man is barely safe in Villa Somalia let alone cities where other men claim to be president.

 

Such is the extent of our political conundrum.

 

But we must remember that the Prophet(SAW) was fought by his family, and that Cali (ra) and Aisha (ra) went to war against each other, and that some Ottoman princes came to power only after killing off their brothers, and that Alexander Hamilton (secretary of treasury) was killed by the sitting Vice President of the United States because they could not stand each other. Yet, the history books are filled with the glory of these nations.

 

Sometimes the ugliness may be extreme. But it is extremely necessary. And in the context of our history, this political tussle and parliament whistling is progress.

[DoctorKenney]

Yes you're right. Somalia as a nation-state is not a political reality, it's nothing more than an idea. Which is why I'm emphasizing this President make this into a political reality as soon as possible.

 

At least Somaliland can secure their own territory. At least Puntland can do the same thing. Yet this Federal Government can barely secure even Mogadishu, so this President--if he was intelligent--would be focusing his energies on securing his country first. Before he gets involved in any of those petty, trivial matters. He has to focus on actually securing the country. Because honestly saaxib, what's the use of being "President" if you don't even have effective control over your country. He's President in name only. But not in reality.

 

And how can you expect the Somalilanders and Puntlanders to respect this government when they can't even muster control over Xamar, let alone the rest of the country? And what is Culusow currently doing to change that?

 

All those examples you cited about the US Founding Fathers and the Ottoman Turks, can't be compared to what's going on in Somalia. Because at least the Ottomans had control over their territory. The Ottoman Empire was a political reality, it was a real State. At least the early US Founding Fathers had control over their own country. When Alexander Hamilton was killed by the sitting US Vice-President, the United States of America was a political reality and was a country which had control over it's own borders.

 

And the only way for Culusow to "undermine" these men, is for him to build up his own power. He should increase his own power by vastly improving the Somali Army and Navy. He should be lobbying the Europeans for weapons shipments and tanks. He should be introducing conscription into Somalia, where every young man is required to serve 3 years in the Somali military. He should create a massive and powerful Army which can secure the country, defeat Al-Shabab, and kick out the Ugandan soldiers from our country once and for all. Any intelligent man knows that's the ONLY thing that we can create a sustainable peace. Once he does this, then he can approach the Somalilanders and Puntlanders from a position of strength, and then negotiate a deal between them.

 

If he doesn't do this, then this civil war will continue. And it will continue. And perhaps in the future, the Americans and Europeans will be sick of this constant turmoil, and they will authorize the breakup of Somalia into several different States, which would be absolutely disastrous.

 

But it's not unlikely. It could very well happen. It's happened to Yugoslavia and it can happen to Somalia as well. Our country can be broken up into several small states.

[thefuturenow]

I think we're going in circles. It's a natural consequence of this power sharing agreement that the president can't do what he wishes. His power is limited. He has to fight all these political battles to do all those things you're saying should be done.

 

Also, Somalia is already divided into several states. What this government is trying to do is not prevent a Yugoslavia. It is trying to make a Yugoslavia. That is not an easy or even desirable goal for some.