Child Marriage in Islam

[Tallaabo]

With all the witch hunt and court trials of "paedophiles" which have become a fixture on our news channels here in the west these days, I thought this topic will be of interest to some of the nomads.

Here is an old National Geographic Magazine article about this issue:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/child-brides/gorney-text

[xabad]

incidentally i was recently reading an excellent piece by an Aussie named Mark Durie titled " The Koran and child marriage".

 

http://www.meforum.org/4725/the-koran-and-child-marriage

 

Everyone knows Mohammed consummated a marriage to a nine year old bride but what many don't know is this;

 

However in discussing divorce it does refer to conditions applying for a female who has not yet menstruated, i.e. for a pre-pubescent girl. The reference is found in Sura 65:4 in a list of regulations concerning the waiting period (the Iddah or Iddat) for divorced women before they can remarry. The verse deals systematically with different cases of women who for some reason are not having regular periods. It reads:

 

"And of those of your women who have given up hope of menstruating, if you doubt, their (waiting) period is three months, as well as those who do not menstruate. And those who are pregnant, their period is until they deliver their burdens." (Sura 65:4)

 

An all knowing and merciful god could never ever sanction child rape.

waiting what the apologists have to say.

[DoctorKenney]

I'm not going to address your argument at all Xabad. Because you've proven yourself as being someone not worth having a discussion with

 

This argument's been dealt with on numerous occasions, on this forum and in other forums, books and lectures. I'm not gonna re-invent the wheel and address you again.

 

 

[xabad]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

I'm not going to address your argument at all Xabad. Because you've proven yourself as being someone not worth having a discussion with

 

This argument's been dealt with on numerous occasions, on this forum and in other forums, books and lectures. I'm not gonna re-invent the wheel and address you again.

 

Dr kenney your the smartest of the wahhabi lot here, no one expects to have a rational discussion with the likes of cidansultan. so, the onus is on you to refute these allegations or agree with them. i am earnestly waiting for your response

[Khayr]

You have already manipulated things with

that wildly provactive title.

It is like saying your carpet stinks, now let us discuss why it could smell good.

 

For any outsider, the image of a stinky carpet becomes embedded. With that image, all logical arguments immediately cease and the logical fallacy of appeal to association and appeal to emotion wins.

 

I mean Tallabo and Xabad are just two sides to the same crooked coin. A bunch of con artists posing as sincere nomads.

[DoctorKenney]

Xabad, there is no onus on me, as I'm not obligated to address something that has no business being discussed on this forum, and which has already been refuted on numerous occasions all over the internet, on TV, and in books.

 

You made a blatant lie again, here on this forum. As you don't even know what the purpose of the "Iddah" waiting period is.

 

Surah 65:4 is dealing with the "Iddah", which is the waiting period a woman must go through once she gets a divorce, in order to ensure she's not pregnant. So traditionally, the Iddah period, is roughly 2 to 3 months. And if she's not pregnant, then she can go ahead and remarry someone else after the waiting period. But if she IS pregnant, then the Iddah period goes on until after she delivers the baby. Usually it's 2 menstrual cycles, but if her cycles are irregular or they're not consistent (as is pretty common with a lot of women in this world), then she has to wait 3 months to ensure she isn't pregnant. Or else, there could be the possibility that her new husband would believe that the child she gave birth to was biologically his, although technically the child was conceived by her old husband, so in order to protect lineage and to prevent against false paternity, this rule is observed. It gives a roughly 3 month buffer timing in order to prevent this. That's the whole point of Iddah.

 

It's all very detailed and elaborate, and I don't have the time to go into further detail, but the point is that in Islam, the age of marriage starts after the man/woman reaches mental and physical maturity (sometime after puberty, maybe a few years after).

[DoctorKenney]

<cite>

@Khayr

said:</cite>

You have already manipulated things with

that

wildly provactive title.

It is like saying

your carpet stinks, now let us discuss why it could smell good.

 

For any outsider, the image of a stinky carpet becomes embedded. With that image, all logical arguments immediately cease and the logical fallacy of appeal to association and appeal to emotion wins.

 

I mean Tallabo and Xabad are just two sides to the same crooked coin. A bunch of con artists posing as sincere nomads.

 

I completely agree with you. Tallaabo has some very questionable logic when he posted this thread. He bought into their narrative and actually went along with it, without even questioning it himself. I actually expected better of him.

 

Xabad isn't even Somali, he admitted it before on this forum. And his arguments/behavior/blatant lies shows that he's not worth having a discussion with either.

[Miyir]

this is the fact, since the beginning of time, every religion followed own culture or in other words just an extension of that culture and its own weird practices.

[xabad]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

Xabad, there is no onus on me, as I'm not obligated to address something that has no business being discussed on this forum, and which has already been refuted on numerous occasions all over the internet, on TV, and in books.

 

You made a blatant lie again, here on this forum. As you don't even know what the purpose of the "Iddah" waiting period is.

 

Surah 65:4 is dealing with the "Iddah", which is the waiting period a woman must go through once she gets a divorce, in order to ensure she's not pregnant. So traditionally, the Iddah period, is roughly 2 to 3 months. And if she's not pregnant, then she can go ahead and remarry someone else after the waiting period. But if she IS pregnant, then the Iddah period goes on until after she delivers the baby. Usually it's 2 menstrual cycles, but if her cycles are irregular or they're not consistent (as is pretty common with a lot of women in this world), then she has to wait 3 months to ensure she isn't pregnant. Or else, there could be the possibility that her new husband would believe that the child she gave birth to was biologically his, although technically the child was conceived by her old husband, so in order to protect lineage and to prevent against false paternity, this rule is observed. It gives a roughly 3 month buffer timing in order to prevent this. That's the whole point of Iddah.

 

It's all very detailed and elaborate, and I don't have the time to go into further detail, but the point is that in Islam, the age of marriage starts after the man/woman reaches mental and physical maturity (sometime after puberty, maybe a few years after).

 

Doctor please read the article first.

[DoctorKenney]

There was nothing in the article that I haven't read before, and that hasn't been refuted before by NUMEROUS Muslim authors and professors. But go ahead. Have fun copying/pasting arguments and then expecting us to defend ourselves against your disapproving opinion.

 

I have no desire to defend myself or explain anything to the likes of you.

[xabad]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

There was nothing in the article that I haven't read before, and that hasn't been refuted before by NUMEROUS Muslim authors and professors. But go ahead. Have fun copying/pasting arguments and then expecting us to defend ourselves against your disapproving opinion.

 

I have no desire to defend myself or explain anything to the likes of you.

 

first of all do you think child marriage is right or wrong ?

[xabad]

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah”s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah”s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Bukhari 5.58.234).

 

Muhammad was at this time fifty-four years old.

 

[xabad]

and it wasn't just the prophet, here is the second caliph of islam umar, supposedly amongst those guaranteed entry into paradise.

 

"'Umar asked 'Ali for the hand of his daughter, Umm Kulthum in marriage. 'Ali replied that she has not yet attained the age (of maturity). 'Umar replied, 'By Allah, this is not true. You do not want her to marry me. If she is underage, send her to me'. Thus 'Ali gave his daughter Umm Kulthum a dress and asked her to go to 'Umar and tell him that her father wants to know what this dress is for. When she came to Umar and gave him the message, he grabbed her hand and forcibly pulled her towards him. 'Umm Kulthum asked him to leave her hand, which Umar did and said, 'You are a very mannered lady with great morals. Go and tell your father that you are very pretty and you are not what he said of you'. With that 'Ali married Umm Kulthum to 'Umar."

In Tarikh Khamees, Volume 2, p. 384 ('Dhikr Umm Kalthum') and Zakhair Al-Aqba, p. 168

[Holac]

In Xabad's trolling universe, there are no nuances, no time sensitive traditions, no spiritual journeys. He doesn't see beyond today's TV sound bites and the loud voice of the extreme right. His world is very black and white. Trying to debate him on matters of religion, is like debating with a waxed face idiot yelling "God doesn't exit, if he does, show me" all day.

 

It is pointless.

 

Xabad, put aside your anti-Islamic views for a minute and tell us, What issues do you find important or debate worthy on a Somali forum? I'd love to see you take a break from this obsession with bashing Islam and challenge us on irreligious topics we may disagree.

 

 

 

 

[DoctorKenney]

Holac, he's definitely similar to those other trolls who try and bring out an attack against Islam at every opportunity. Not worth your time having a discussion with him.

 

And it doesn't matter what the argument says, Xabad/others just copy and paste these arguments into this forum and then expect us to defend it. Never mind the fact that all of these arguments have already been addressed in years past on this forum, in other forums, and in other books and lectures and articles as well.

 

He's an intellectual light-weight. And I'm saying this as a 22 year old. He knows he won't survive in a debate or a discussion in an Islamic forum so he brings his arguments to this SomaliaOnline forum. It's best to just dismiss him