A third way for Somaliland and Somalia

[Carafaat]

Haatu;909907 wrote:

It appears I hit a nerve, and a raw one at that too.

 

XX, take a deep breath and read what I said again. I agree with you, Somalia =/= Somaliweyn. So, by conceding for Somaliweyn instead of Somalia you save face. Capiche?

 

Oodka, if the butler earns a better wage in Nairobi than in Mogadishu, than can you really blame him for his choice of employment?

 

Wadani, I wouldn't mind joining Somalia today but the reality on the ground dictates otherwise. The Kenyans aren't willing to let go and the populace will only join once Somalia can offer the services they currently receive, no matter how small. As for Somaliland, economically today it is no better than Somalia. The S/land population won't suffer a drop in quality of life if they join Somalia unlike NEP. To put it simply, you guys are further up the road to Somaliweyn than us and will reach the destination sooner. That doesn't mean we're not coming, we're merely behind you. Capiche?

 

The Caravan has been upgraded into a ferry and is waiting.

:D

Biggest hypocrit. Kulahaa Kenya has better service.

[Rahima]

Xaaji Xunjuf;909918 wrote:

Because the Germans had an Empire in 16 century which even included Austria and other parts and in 1870 the Empire was led by William the first and latter William the 3rd it was easy for them revive their old Empire after the cold war they were divided because of a geopolitical cold war between the west and the east. Somaliland and Somalia never shared a country only between 1960 and 1991 its a whole different case different civilization different continent different history different people thus incomparable.

Are you serious? No way can you be serious- tell me you're kidding.

[QansaxMeygaag]

Xaaji Xunjuf;909918 wrote:

Because the Germans had an Empire in 16 century which even included Austria and other parts and in 1870 the Empire was led by William the first and latter William the 3rd it was easy for them revive their old Empire after the cold war they were divided because of a geopolitical cold war between the west and the east. Somaliland and Somalia never shared a country only between 1960 and 1991 its a whole different case different civilization different continent different history different people thus incomparable.

You are only accentuating my case - the two were together (call it an empire if you want), they were forced apart by circumstances (cold war), but came back together again. SL and Somalia voluntarily came together and were forced apart by a terrible civil war, now that things are changing - touch wood - why should it be so difficult to accept the notion that they can and should come together again, especially when the entire world is slowly moving into regional economic blocs and willingly ceding sovereignty for economic and political benefit e.g EU??

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Rahima;909914 wrote:

XX,

 

Well of course you would think Somalia needs SL more!

 

A lot of the time i find that fellow Somalis object to SL not because of any specific attachment or obsession (which is beyond insulting btw) but because of all the contested areas. What exactly is SL? Does it include Awdal for example, because we all know that many from that region view SL as a temporary notion. Are they being forced into an independence they do not want?

 

You are right about identities though, when i think of Hargeysa i don't think of it the same way as i do Kismaayo, Baidoa, Mogadishu or Bossaso. No ill feelings, just being honest. Obviously the SL/Somalia thing has affected even those of us from Somalia.

 

STOIC,

 

I see your point but it will be very hard to overcome such feelings. Of course it would be nice if we could (heck i hope for the unification for the entire Ummah) but we just aren't ready for it yet and i doubt we will be any time soon.

I think some how Somalia is more attached to Somaliland i dont know what it is i have no words for it it doesnt mean people of Somalia are bad its just that they cant help it. The people of Somalia are not attached to the O'gaden region or NFD or Djibouti but they are attached to Somaliland. Somaliland is just one part of the so called Somaliweyn. I some how think that Somalia is more attached to Somaliland than Ethiopia was to Eritrea, even though Eritrea landlocked Ethiopia. When the people of Somalia object to Somaliland they are not against it because they think it will hurt Somalia but there is something else. I speak to all sort of Somalis those in Kenya matter infact there are Kenyan Somali politicians who support Somaliland independence Haatu's uncles. So i think the 30 year union had a big effect on the people of Somalia also on the people of Somaliland but for different reasons afcourse.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

QansaxMeygaag;909922 wrote:

You are only accentuating my case - the two were together (call it an empire if you want), they were forced apart by circumstances (cold war), but came back together again. SL and Somalia voluntarily came together and were forced apart by a terrible civil war, now that things are changing - touch wood - why should it be so difficult to accept the notion that they can and should come together again, especially when the entire world is slowly moving into regional economic blocs and willingly ceding sovereignty for economic and political benefit e.g EU??

I dont think the people of Somaliland will object against economic integration its welcome let business flourish let we form a block in the horn of Africa not just Somaliland and Somalia but other countries in the region to The movement of people the same way in Europe while respectable countries keep their sovereignty but they cooperate on all fields and there are no limits. The Germans had a civilization that kept them together for centuries people of Somalia and Somaliland were missing that fundamental factor. The whole union was to achieve an Empire it wasn't based an previous Empire while the German story was totally different. Somaliland and Somalia had two distinct histories before colonialism after colonialism a short union and now after 22 years they went their separate ways. If you ask me Somalia and Somaliland were apart for so long than that they were united so cant be compared to Deutschland.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Carafaat;909920 wrote:

Biggest hypocrit. Kulahaa Kenya has better service.

Iskaa daa Haatu shaqada Kenya u fiican i wont blame him kenya is a rich country why would he give up his home and move to Somalia.

[Haatu]

Carafaat, sure we don't get much from Kenya, but we do get a few schools, some electricity etc. It might not be a lot but hey, what can Somalia offer today? It's not hypocrisy. We would like to be part of Somaliweyn, but the time is not right yet for us. first we have to convince the Kenyans to give us a referendum but I can't see that happening with the leaders we've got.

 

Qansax, you just elaborated my point.

[Carafaat]

Haatu, NFD doesnt even have an Airport let alone a University. I am wondering what makes you think that NFD is in a much better condition then Somaliland. From what I have seen, NFD is a military zone. And I wouldnt dare to make a statement that NFD is in a much better condition then Somaliland.

 

P.S. I have seen many folks from NFD and even Kenyans working in Somaliland for NGO's, schools, Universities and business. I wonder how many folks from Somaliland go to NFD to seek a job, lately?

[Haatu]

I agree it's not much, but at least we have a few doctors, teachers and some electricity. The day Somalia matches that we're good to go

[Carafaat]

Haatu;909936 wrote:

I agree it's not much, but at least we have a few doctors, teachers and some electricity. The day Somalia matches that we're good to go

Haatu, why would think that it would be diffrent for Somaliland? Dont they want the same?

[Haatu]

Somaliland isn't occupied and won't lose anything by joining Somalia. so what's the problem?

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Carafaat you should be ashamed of you're self comparing Somaliland to a mere province of kenya with no universities airports roads basic infrastructure and no autonomy whats so ever. Ofcourse Haatu will not fight the Kenyans he has no power to do so atleast his Kin in the O'gaden region are a bit braver and they have universities and roads and airports. War dagaalama wa intaydaba dhiman ba weydan eh.

[Ibtisam]

The so called 3rd way means just maintaining the current status- the reality is two different administrations, it is a transition phase, you cannot make a phase permanent.

 

I kind of agree with Rahima, particularly since moving to Hargeisa, it is a lot easier to dismiss or hear verbally what problems and grievances people have and take it lightly, however it is a different matter seeing the victims who are still very much bitter and their kids who are just as bitter as them.

 

In any case I think Somalis have as a side effect of war become very selfish and individualistic, therefore any grouping will have problems, as it is impossible for a state to function as a state while appeasing all sub clans. The ancient old problem of not the best man for the job but the best placed. Even now SL is struggling with the balance and Somalia is also finding this balance difficult. Imagine one pot for all these competing interests. I am against any roads that lead BACK to chaos for both Somalia and Somaliland. Let the pain, hurt and grievance settle, let the peace and normality, functionality and the notion of legality, rule of law, state etc settle and for people to become trusting of that. Only then can any serious dialogue happen, before then it is just premature and counter productive.

 

Donor pressured meetings wont achieve anythings, Somalis will attend, smile at each other, take the money and then do what they wish after. lol

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Haatu;909938 wrote:

Somaliland isn't occupied and won't lose anything by joining Somalia. so what's the problem?

It just came out of occupation 1991 its like you wining independence and than join the occupier again makes no sense

[Haatu]

Xaaji Xunjuf;909942 wrote:

It just came out of occupation 1991 its like you wining independence and than join the occupier again makes no sense

Waa markaad isku darsami jirtey. Ma Soomaaliya baa hadda gumeyste ah?