Abdullahi Yusuf - The history of a pathetic failure

[Liqaye]

Baashi said-

 

Col. Yusuf is no angel and no one can deny he rules with fist iron - his dictatorial style speaks volumes...Nevertheless I support Puntland State in which he is the absolute king; the alternative is not pretty considering his insistence to hold on to power by any means necessary.

 

Alright that IS understandble but the alternative as you have stated is not appreciable, precisley because of this mans viciousness he would rather see puntland and by extension somalia destroyed than succumb to the wishes of the people, consequently is this man that the garowe trio jump up in arms to defend no better than the rest of the petty men of war in somalia?

 

Let me also agree with you that PL is a political creation of its constituents, which happen to be members of the same tribe. Support and consent of its residents is what makes the area a “recovery zone” - still there is room for improvement. They are not threat to their neighbors for one thing. They choose to move on with their lives yet they are absolutely and unequivocally for united, inclusive, and peaceful Somalia when and if the consent of all concerned participants materializes.

 

Well this simple statement of the clan make up of puntland I THOUGHT COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE DEBATED, unfortunatley all the garowe trio have been able to do is hurl accusations of qabiil towards anybody that brings up the fact, something i might add that does their feifdom more harm than good.

Sir the mechanics behind the creation of a recovery zone based on clan affiliation and a nation state based on ALL clans submiting to the JUSTICE that is the laws of the land is two very diffrent things.

We all support what the people of nugaal and bari have done for them selves but dont you join me in stating that all this has occured INSPITE of yusuf, and is survivng DESPITE yusufs attempts at curtailing what little peacefull activities go on in the areas?

 

The part were you talk about the PEOPLE OF PUNTLAND not being a threat to their neighbours i agree with, but yusufs militia in sool is more than enough of a threat to the residents of this area.

 

Finally, my position is Somalia would be better place if its polity can unite behind other political policies other than clan platforms. In reality and on the ground that is not the case.

 

Yes that might be your position but is somalia an area that can be governed only and exclusively by the consent of the various clans there, or as i have stated does not a legitimate country need a national raison d' etre that goes beyond the clan calculations that make a clannisticaly homogenous part of somalia work.

 

Lastly as a somali i take issue with yusufs claims for being in sool as being in support of somali weyn, all they have succeded in doing is to destabilize and alienate the people of sool and SOMALILAND, by his blink-or-you-wont-see-it claims to sool and sanaag.

 

The only reason they are there is clan, and god willing the people of sool will weigh the overlordship of yusuf with atleast the attempts at democracy in somaliland and the spirit of the times in the WHOLE OF SOMALIA that is not singing the tune of yusuf and force, as they are doing considering the already sizeable split in their polity.

 

A somalia united gobol by gobol in a fair and just way, where every tulo in somali can make a choice in their futures rather than invasions by warlords beating a tired and discredited durbaan.

 

So ask a puntlander where sool is going and depending on his mood it is going back to somalia, or is an integral part of puntland or is making it own desicion.

 

Raali ahoow lakiin i am very suspicious of this fued that is being pinned on SOMALIS rather than yusuf and his militia.

[General Duke]

Horn Afrique,

Thanks for the correction bro.

 

HOgaanka,

You seem to be talking in ridles dear boy

 

"The only reason they are there is clan, and god willing the people of sool will weigh the overlordship of yusuf with atleast the attempts at democracy in somaliland and the spirit of the times in the WHOLE OF SOMALIA"

 

Hooganka dear brother, the people of Puntland are part of Somalia, just like Texas is part of the US and Queensland is part of Australia. However you seem to mix up seperation or secession with federalism or decentralisation of government, I suggest you read up on it.

 

Also the fact that Puntland works makes your argument a tad bit silly, it is more successful than the whole of central/south Somalia, its cities and regions are amongst the most peaceful the former republic, even in Las Ano with all the talk of war produced less casualties than Ceel Buur, Beled weyne, Kismayu and Mogadishu in the same period.

 

 

SOOL is part of the Somali republic, its people are supporters of a united Somali state and that is the main reason they support Puntland, however they are also part of the same clan as the rest of BARI, MUDUG AND NUGAAL regions remember dear boy, that some of the most powerful figures in Puntland today are from SOOL, SANAG AND AYN.

 

However it suits your own ego to believe that Puntland is the creation of one evil doer and exists for that one man, its a very infentile, simplistic and irrational argument, but all you have offered so far is of that nature.

 

You wish us to believ that Abdullahi Yusuf is a pathetic failure, yet he can single handedly creat a new state built on a new system of government and then maintain that state all on his own, what a failuer indeed.

[Baashi]

H.I.,

 

My 2 questions r sidelined!

 

Here they r again;

What is it that you object about the route PLers had taken considering the anarchic reality of the Somalia that once existed?

 

How would you go about if you faced the dilemma faced by the PL elites? Dilemma : let the warlords and their mafia do what they do best or embrace any workable political solution available?

 

Remember we agree more than we disagree. I just want to understand how you reason in answering these 2 questions.

 

Waiting...

[Liqaye]

Bro smith said:

 

Hooganka dear brother, the people of Puntland are part of Somalia, just like Texas is part of the US and Queensland is part of Australia. However you seem to mix up seperation or secession with federalism or decentralisation of government, I suggest you read up on it.

 

Question smith the countries that you bring up have a federal constitution, these are not centralised nations whos provinces have decided to amalgamate am then call the governor president of puntland.

Also if you re-read my posts instead of getting so flustered youy would understand that the point you are making is superflous and outside of our disscusion.

 

Also the fact that Puntland works makes your argument a tad bit silly, it is more successful than the whole of central/south Somalia, its cities and regions are amongst the most peaceful the former republic, even in Las Ano with all the talk of war produced less casualties than Ceel Buur, Beled weyne, Kismayu and Mogadishu in the same period.

 

In this post and others my argument has not been that it has been un-succesfull but rather it's success is something that cannot be duplicated or acheived on the same basis of a clan federation as in other parts of somalia.

To make it even more clearer to you can you explain why puntland has not gone the whole hog and included the southern mudug in their clan calculations, would it have worked, if not why not?

 

SOOL is part of the Somali republic, its people are supporters of a united Somali state and that is the main reason they support Puntland, however they are also part of the same clan as the rest of BARI, MUDUG AND NUGAAL regions remember dear boy, that some of the most powerful figures in Puntland today are from SOOL, SANAG AND AYN

 

Sool is somali and yet a part of puntland....whilst powerfull memebers of puntland are from these areas, so consequently scince the clans of sool are the same as puntlands, then puntland has a right to them?

Because when we put aside the red-herring that is the word somalia in the puntland administrations lexicon, this is the statement you are making?

 

However it suits your own ego to believe that Puntland is the creation of one evil doer and exists for that one man, its a very infentile, simplistic and irrational argument, but all you have offered so far is of that nature

 

No sir it suits YOUR ego to assume that any oppisiton to uncle yusuf is opossition to puntland again i will repeat my position on puntland that others have understood but that you seem hell bent on contradiciting.

Puntland is a grassroots creation for peace and prosperity in the three provinces that has been usurped by yusuf and his supporters, as a concept alsoi it would lead to the blakanisation of the somali polity.

maad fahanteey hajaadhi?

 

You wish us to believ that Abdullahi Yusuf is a pathetic failure, yet he can single handedly creat a new state built on a new system of government and then maintain that state all on his own, what a failuer indeed.

 

That clearly means that the idea of abdillahi yusuf "creating" and maintaining puntland suits YOUR ego rather than mine.

Your statement bellitle's the accopmlishments of the people who's cause you seem to trumpet.

Also could you please make clear what new innovations yusuf has created in puntland, is it the regecting of the wishes of the parliament and by extension the people of puntland by using force to return to garowe or is it the use of clan calculations to maintain the stability of this areas.

Or the usurption of the rights of the free people of somalia?

 

Baashi as you can see we agree more than we disagree, re-read my comments to smith and look the clear delianation of three strands in my answer.

 

A] Puntland was created by the people of this area, the odaayals and the dhalin yaaro, and the bussiness people in search of peace and tranquility.

B] The usurption of the will of the people of puntland, and the support this usurption gets from people who support yusuf, and whatever position he might take in the somali peace talks (notice how they use puntland and somalia interchangebly as the need arises} and in the sool issue (again notice the use of puntland and somalialand).

C) And that fact that a clan federation might have worked in the interim in these areas but another vision is needed for somalia as a whole.

 

Hope the whole topic makes clear to you my position.

[NinBrown]

Bro Ceelbuur

Let me tell you few things.

When some1 wants to change something, they should start with themselves, then their family, then their town or city and so on, move up th ladder.

 

Ppl in PL and SL tried to do that, firstly put their house in order and try and be an example to the rest of somalia, so that the others can follow. This is happening in some parts but not others parts.

 

So, instead of having hate for these ppl, try copying them, and fix u r town, then state then, you can talk about Somalia. How can you talk about other ppl problems when you have the same or worst. Evryday i see you write, PL is 'ontrolled by a warlord' is 'sed on qabiil' Why?

Fix u r city or town, then come to us.

and stop think u r so clever.....

[General Duke]

Hooganka,

It seems that you are improving by the minute. Now that we agree that Puntland exists and that it has been a success lets look at the points you have raised.

 

The people of South Mudug did not chose to be part of the administrational Garowe, that was their choice entirely and for their own reasons, unlike the people of Nugaal and Sool for example who sent their elders to the Growe conference which established the state.

 

Puntland came about in 1998 a full seven years since the end of central government; the people of the North East waited in vain for a united Somalia however the failure of the numerous conferences and the continuing blood letting in the south convinced them that they could wait no longer. What where they to do, wait and wait for the Mogadishu or join the secession of Hargaysa. No they chose the creation of their own local government staying within the Somali national framework. And as you have stated it has worked.

 

Lets now think hypothetically what would have happened if Puntland

1. Claimed to be a national government for the whole of Somalia with its new capital in Garowe

2. Armed by Ethiopia and with Ethiopian troops backing attacked the south with the aim of unifying Somalia by force.

3. Broke away from the rest of Somalia and declared it a new republic.

 

To me all of these options would have been disastrous and would have fuelled even more conflict.

 

On Abdullahi Yusuf,

He is the president of Puntland and neither its creator nor its future, he is the leader some agree with him a lot don’t.

If Abdullahi dies and Mohamed Abdi Hashi becomes president then I will support him.

And you will accuse me of supporting my uncle. LOL

[Saxardiid]

Mr. Abdillahi Yusuf is man who squandered his entire adult life in a military uniform; fighting wars, mainly guerilla wars, civil wars and violent armed confrontations with his political opponents.

he is not giving up soon, is he? I belief all of these are battles he won some of them and lost some but his biggest test yet to come in the form of kenyan peace proccess and sool crisis. if he overcomes then he wins this struggle against his opponents. if he loses then that concludes one all whole chapter of somali warlordism.

[AYOUB]

Baashi

H.I.,

Col. Yusuf is no angel and no one can deny he rules with fist iron - his dictatorial style speaks volumes...Nevertheless I support Puntland State in which he is the absolute king; the alternative is not pretty considering his insistence to hold on to power by any means necessary.

Was that your first article for the 'anarchist magazine'? Your political views seemed to changed with the new year. Whatever happened to the Pan-Somaliweyn boy who used to be oppose everything other than 'Great Somalia'?

 

Baashi If you are happy with your 'dictatorial king', why do you want to inflict him on the people of Sool?

 

Baashi

What is it that you object about the route PLers had taken considering the anarchic reality of the Somalia that once existed?

 

How would you go about if you faced the dilemma faced by the PL elites? Dilemma : let the warlords and their mafia do what they do best or embrace any workable political solution available?

Baashi you are just paraphrasing the questions brother Notherner asked you way back when you were anti Puntland/Somaliland. A week might be a long time in politics, its even longer in this forum.

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by General Dude Smith:

Lets now think hypothetically what would have happened if Puntland

1. Claimed to be a national government for the whole of Somalia with its new capital in Garowe

2. Armed by Ethiopia and with Ethiopian troops backing attacked the south with the aim of unifying Somalia by force.

3. Broke away from the rest of Somalia and declared it a new republic.

 

To me all of these options would have been disastrous and would have fuelled even more conflict.

Good thing we had it in writing.

[Qandalawi]

^^^And your point?

[Castro]

^ There's no point. Move along.

 

General Dude Smith???? LOL. War ileen balaayo. The man has more skeletons in his closet than a graveyard does and he accuses people of being flip-floppers and opportunists?

[Qandalawi]

^^You are not either talking at all just murmuring, no sense

[Paragon]

By following the hypothetical formulations of 2004, of Puntland taking over Somalia with the help of Ethiopia, I reiterate the point I made in another thread; the tfg is the continuation of war (or conflict) by other means.

 

So nice when someone else says it for you, 3 years before you and then, for the failure of logic, finds himself in the situation he dreaded most.

[Pi]

^^ You really think Puntland took over Somalia with the help of Ethiopia? Or is this another foolish fadhi-ku-dirir garbage? Nin weyn oo hadal caruureed leh iga dheh.

[Qandalawi]

^^War dadka hacaayin, caruur baa tahayee

 

Maanta dadku wax sesne samaynayaa majiro, ma timir khar(dh)aar(dh) bay liqeen