Salafi_Online Posted July 27, 2004 Innalhamdulillah if someone believes in the basic tenents of Islam (Allah is ONE, Muhamed (sallahu caliyhe wasilm) is his final rasul, the Quran is the last revelation (not denying the authority of the quran), 5 pillars of Islam, 6 pillars of Faith; then pronouncing TAKFIIR on them is no LIGHT MATTER cause they are MUSLIM. brother khair if someone believed in all that, and then said The humans can see the Ghayb? are they still muslims! or better yet they visit fortune tellers reguarly? Or yet they ask a human being for help when a calamity strikes them? or Fulan fulan has a highter statues then Noah, or Musa! or to say that Abu Bakr was an apostate! are they muslims? Yet they believe in all that u mentioned above! there are conditions to takfir, and what you mention are some of them but not all of them! This is why the messenger of Allah spend 13 years of his 23 years just teaching the people tawheed! Shirk my friend comes in many forms! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking Posted July 27, 2004 Nur, I am sorry if I failed to practice what I preach, it is an exception this time, but I congratulate you for being a true shia in action as you practice hiding your motives very well to dfened yourself against Naasib Sunni. As time goes by, I see more and more sides to you, of late it has been less pleasant than usual. As a Muslim, you should be giving me the benefit of the doubt, but you choose not to. I refuse to call myself Sunni or Shi'a, but Muslim. Allah SWT is my witness that you are wrong in what you say about me, but I forgive you in my heart. -I pray with my hands on my chest and not on the sides like a Maliki or an Ithna Cashari (a prejudiced Shi'a man once told me that I am still holding on to the statues of jahilliya). -I prefer the Iranian theocratic govt the corrupt Saudi monarchy. -I have nothing but love and respect for the Ahl al Bayt. -I don't use clay from Kerbala (or approve the use of it) when prostrating. -I believe the Qur'an is complete. -I don't know enough about Imams to form my opinion as to whether they are infallible, but believe that Our Noble Prophet PBUH was. The only think that stains his perfect record is the Sunni translation of 'Abasa, which you refused to respond to. -I don't dismiss mysticism like you do, but I am not aiming or planning to do some soul travelling. I could continue the list and even you can't figure out what I am, whether I am a Sunni, Shi'a or something else. So sxb, put down your axe and take a deep breathe, for I ain't hiding anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG_Girl Posted July 27, 2004 Salafi, declaration of Iman, Or Islam -which is opposite of "Shirk"- is as follows: "I believe in Allah, in his Messengers, in his Angels, in his Books, in the Day of Judgment, the fact that everything good and bad is from Allah and that Life exists after death". Those are my major forms two Muslims can't disagree but any thing above that or else we call different opinions or schools. So what shirk you talking about? I can see these days the word "takfer or kufr" becoming like Bush's word "Terrorist" have no definition or limit , could be called any one at any time any one disagree with you!!. There are things called "thanbi or sin" and these can't take you out of Islam or millah. ONLY Allah can judge and there is no such thing as the pope in Islam , who makes you Muslim or not, every thing is clear and there is a lot of scholars whom themselves disagree on the tafseer of some aayat in the Quraan. You and your friend Nur are playing dangerous game by calling kufr those who Believes in Islam. Why you don't rest and let Allah be the judge? I don't even know why I am bothering my self with you!! Salam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khayr Posted July 27, 2004 Originally posted by Salafi_Online: Innalhamdulillah brother khair if someone believed in all that, and then said The humans can see the Ghayb? are they still muslims! or better yet they visit fortune tellers reguarly? Or yet they ask a human being for help when a calamity strikes them? or Fulan fulan has a highter statues then Noah, or Musa! or to say that Abu Bakr was an apostate! are they muslims? Yet they believe in all that u mentioned above! there are conditions to takfir, and what you mention are some of them but not all of them! This is why the messenger of Allah spend 13 years of his 23 years just teaching the people tawheed! Shirk my friend comes in many forms! If I should take the same line of thinking then, a muslim who commits a sin of any sorts, becomes a Kafir. If you have a relative and they smoke or drink, then that makes them KAFIR automotically. Why even Allah says in the Quran that 'MAN WAS CREATED WEAK (Prone to Temptation)' So engaging in particular acts that might be deemed Haram or Makruh, doesn't necessarily make you a KAFIR. If this was the case, then when you missed Fajr cause you wanted to sleep in that morning (xurdaada aad bee oo macaanade!), then you would be committing Shirk (putting yourself before Allah) and thereby committing TAKFIR. Inshallah, give it time, when you have a family, wife and kids and Allah shows you LIFE'S LESSONS, then inshallah you will understand that Allah is AL-HAKIM, AL-RAHIM and not just AL-MUNTAQIM. I wanted to attend one thing inshallah, these arguments are FRIVILOUS/USELESS, if it comes down to making One MUMIN HATE another MUMIN. Why? Well, its PROVES that the SHAYTAN has done his JOB veryyyyyyyyy wellllll! Fi Amanillah Fi Amanillah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted July 28, 2004 Innalhamdulillah ----> Surely Allah praises belongs to Allah! If I should take the same line of thinking then, a muslim who commits a sin of any sorts, becomes a Kafir. If you have a relative and they smoke or drink, then that makes them KAFIR automotically. Brother khair these above actions are classified as major sins which do not get you out of the religion! Refer to “Kitab- U- taweed†Shirk (putting yourself before Allah) Shirk! in the religion context is to associating Partners with Allah! Everything I mentioned were an action of kufr and shirk, there are ayats and hadith for all the actions I mentioned above, I didn’t make them up! For example: Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim] So to say Abu Bakr is a kafir then that makes that person a kafir! Surely abu Bakr is not a kafir Messenger(saw) said! “Whoever goes to a fortune-teller or a soothsayer and believes in what he says has disbelieved in what was revealed to Muhammad.†(Reported by Imaam Ahmad, 2/429; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, 5939). To say that a human being can see the unseen is kufr, Cause Allah said no one knows the unseen except what he reveals to his Rasul! (surah 72:26) TO call upon a human being rather then Allah when a calamity strikes you is Shirk! Allah said,†Call upon me only †in the hadith 40 Hadith- An-nawawi The one who deals in magic is a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “. . . Sulayman did not disbelieve, but the shayaateen (devils) disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things as came down at Babylon to the two angels, Haaroot and Maaroot, but neither of these two (angels) taught anyone (such things) things till they had said, ‘We are only for trial, so disbelieve not (by learning this magic from us).’ . . .†[al-Baqarah 2:102] Allah forgives all sins, Except Shirk! Arrogance/pride is kufr, Prove: Iblis became a disbeliever due to arrogance Kufrul-Istihzaha: Disbelief due to mockery and derision. Allaah subhanahu wa ta'ala says: " Was it at Allaah, His signs and His apostles that you were mocking? Make no excuses. You have disbelieved after you have believed. [soorah Taubah (9), ayah 65-66] These people where believers but since they mocked the prophet and his signs, they became disbelievers! Akhee sincere advice pick up the book Kitab-u- tawheed! Wallahi 'Alim! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rudy-Diiriye Posted July 28, 2004 love to be in this party...i hope its byk! bring your kitaab! i dont like sharing mine!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted July 29, 2004 Rudy Man! Where have you been saaxib? Al Hamdulillah that you are coming to the party, make sure you read the direction that I am about to post soon. Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted December 28, 2008 Nomads Another visit of yesteryears eNuri write-ups, may Allah SWT accept our sincere intentions and forgive us for our non-sincere ones, Amin. Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winnie Posted December 28, 2008 they say jannat is surrounded by evils and temptations... it's hard to get to, but worth the trouble. this whole thread is like an allegory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
