KULMIYE Convention Came to the End ,,,,,, Leaders Elected

[Laba-X]

^Isseh, Disregard the Suldaan's comments. When it comes to the faculty of reason and logic, he is endowed with but little. His incompetently loquacious friend, and amateur historian, fares slightly better, though his inability to articulate lets him down and all his and his adminstration's talks of laying claim on Sool and Sanaag is but a fervet hubris...

[Suldaanka]

^^ Laba Xiin, before you are taken seriously in the political face-offs, you'll need to spend enough time here to be noticed.

 

 

Baashi,

The similarities between the small anti-Somaliland minority in the remote parts of eastern Somaliland and the small Serb minority in Kosovo, is that both want to keep their links with their kinship across the border.

 

The thing is, the world doesn't work according to "kinship". The world works according to "international borders". And as far as Somaliland's borders is concerned, they are not something that are going to be redrawn - you'll need to under score that part here.

 

The anti-Somaliland minority doesn't have the power to change Somaliland's course towards an eventual recognition. I am 100% certain that Somaliland will get recognised sooner or later, either way. And that being the case, the anti-Somaliland minority has no other option but to follow the majority.

 

You have time and again talked about "Sool & Sanaag" as being two regions that are anti- Somaliland. But you are wrong. The anti-Somaliland elements in those region actually make a minority of the total populatin of those two regions.

 

 

As for America's support towards the TFG. I don't think that raises any eyebrows. America has her own interests and those interests are why it has both close relations with Somaliland and the TFG.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Northerner:

quote: The logic there is circular. The question now becomes are you for secessionism only because of the civil strife in the South or are you for secessionism because you buy the argument that secessionism basically entails restoration of lost sovereignty? What if the will of the people in certain segment of what used to be British Protectorate is against the dismemberment drive as manifested in Sool and Sanaag? How should one go about demarcating clan -- or to be politically correct in this joint clan based districts -- borders? These are pertinent questions that hit the epicenter of secessionists’ project.

 

You oppose, in your opinion, an entity based on clan but then in the same breath wish for the resolution/demarcation of regions based on clan? Am I reading this wrong ya Baashi?

Don't mind Baashi on this front. He has a blind spot when it comes to the disputed regions. I still remember that long discussion I had with him in regards to this region in 2005. He strongly argued that it was all about the H factor and that people of that region will never willingly agree to join Somaliland. Yet, today, through diplomacy, cajoling and, or, maybe even a touch of self-interest, a sizable number of people from those regions are happily dancing to the tune of Somaliland! But wait a minute; he'll probably say they were forced into it like they were in that grand meeting in the early 90s!

 

On the point of secession he's still flogging whatever remains of that old dead horse about clannish grievances and colonial legacy! On a thread talking about the annual convention of Somaliland's main opposition party no less.

 

It is quite foolish to argue the reasons for secession after seventeen years. They don't matter anymore. It's akin to someone coming seventeen years later and questioning a woman who had an accidental pregnancy that resulted in the birth of a healthy child! Why did you have him? He would say. You were young and had your full life ahead of you! You could have had an abortion or better still, you could have used contraceptives!

 

Of course, every last could, would and should is meaningless now. That child is seventeen years old and as each day passes he gives his mother more and better reasons for knowing she did the right thing when she decided to have him. But would Baashi and others grasp that simple idea and drop the concerned brother act? I doubt it. You should have kept your legs firmly crossed they'll stubbornly shout.

[N.O.R.F]

Baashow, with all due respect, opposiing the use of colonial borders in Somalland's case while at the same advocating for other regions to be seperated from SL along clan lines is one and the same saxib.

 

I have adopted a wait and see policy of late.

[Baashi]

I found it amusing how Northerner mistakes apples for oranges every time. You can say that I oppose dismembering the state on the grounds of old grievances and/or past colonial subjugation, but buddy it is a gross mischaracterization to assert that I advocate for separation based on clans.

 

Awoowe what I’m for is a viable Somali state with just, all inclusive Shar’ia-based government at the helm -- a state that’s peace with itself and with its neighbors. In this context separation based on clan is not necessary. If I’m to fantasies an utopia a sort of cuckoo land on the clouds awoowe this one -- instead of clannish fiefdom -- is worth the dream.

 

In any event, if you insist on siding with separatists on the grounds that their secessionism pet project is morally and legally valid because of past colonial subjugation then clans who oppose that project reserve the right to stay put with the rest of the state.

 

There is a world of difference between turning the viable state into checkerboard of Bantustan fiefdoms which is basically what secessionism ultimately accomplishes and having a contest over the dismemberment project prior to its implementation.

 

How the contestants organize themselves is beyond Baashi’s hand. It just so happened that this contest gains its stem from clannish special interests.

 

Suldaan,

Awoowe I’m sure you sincerely believe in the secession cause and that leads you to hold on to every bit of hope where there is none. You said the two cases are similar if not identical. I beg to differ, buddy.

 

Objective analysis would show that while the two share some aspect in the legal realm, the details of the cases are so different so much so they deserve to be categorized differently.

 

One is a local functioning admin in a failed state with intention to secede. The other is regionally protected and UN supervised enclave in the Balkans. One case has akready been vetted and found to be a bogus. Whilst the other found a receptive sponsors in the superpower club.

 

The opposition in Kosovo are expected (required) to behave and submit to both NATO and UN dictates. The opposition in your fiefdom has the legal verdict on their side. Overturning that robust and watertight legal gasket proved to be a tall order

 

Ngonge,

Coming in from the cold huh! How does it feel pal to finally come out of the closet and endorse the use of violence against Las Anod residents? Quite liberating I’m sure

 

I’m sure you have accumulated volumes of Waxa-La-Yirri hearsay a la Cilmi Dhegood so much so that you now think it is foolish to question the root cause of the secession after the fact -- after 17 yrs! I guess it is ok to go half century back -- 48 years! Some logic eh! Where does the half century number leave your analogy? Come to think of it, the 48 yrs old with legit birth certificate has better chance to have his papers get revalidated than the 17 yrs bastrd

[N.O.R.F]

Baashow, you have a problem with the seperation of Somalia based on old colonial borders but if SL was to be divided even further (whereby regions seperate along clan lines) you would think it is SL's just deserts. The ‘if Somalia is devisable then SL can be aswell ‘ (as per your earlier statement) makes your case a redundent one! This tells me that if SL was to be recognised tomorrow you would give up all your ‘nationalistic’ tendencies and would have no problem with a free for all! Is that the case awoow?

 

No amount of ‘I’am for peace in Somalia etc etc’ can disguise it.

[rudy-Diiriye]

i never heard of this party!! wat do they do?? wats their slogan... keep tribalism alive probably.

 

i wish there was pill to give to africans to make them forget their ****** dead relatives and living ones.

 

Only tribal mofos i kept hearing about r the ****** ones...at least in my monkey chain. U 2 probably!!

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Baashi:

Come to think of it, the 48 yrs old with legit birth certificate got better chance to get his papers get revalidated than the 17 yrs bastrd

^^

 

Intaa udaa awoowe...

[RedSea]

If Kulmiye becomes the ruling party it will shut the yappers of some noisy folk in here!

 

Everybody support Kulmiye for 'change'. :cool:

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Baashi:

Ngonge,

Coming in from the cold huh! How does it feel pal to finally come out of the closet and endorse the use of violence against Las Anod residents? Quite liberating I’m sure

 

I’m sure you have accumulated volumes of

Waxa-La-Yirri

hearsay a la

Cilmi Dhegood

so much so that you now think it is foolish to question the root cause of the secession after the fact -- after 17 yrs! I guess it is ok to go half century back -- 48 years! Some logic eh! Where does the half century number leave your analogy? Come to think of it, the 48 yrs old with legit birth certificate has better chance to have his papers get revalidated than the 17 yrs bastrd

Easy with the flippant remarks there, saaxib. Where is your objective analysis?

We are talking politics, are we not? To say one is endorsing the use of violence against the people of LA is to window dress the facts on the ground. What violence are you talking about here? By whom?

 

As for the dig about the Waxa la yedhi, you do know I abhor that practice and pay it no attention at all. I go by FACTS (not the 'feeds' that you're so fond of employing). The facts that can not be disputed is that Somaliland has manoeuvred the people of LA (and other disputed areas) into division and the discarding of old loyalties. This is politics, mi amigo. Acknowledge it. Accept it and hope the other side can engineer a similar ploy to regain the upper hand. The sensationalist guff about endorsing violence is rather below you and does not follow your principle of objective analysis.

 

One the point of the seventeen year old basturd, I got to applaud you on a great sound bite there. It probably received approving nods from the Somalilanders in here (not just the solitary clapping by Xiin there). That's the Somali way after all, a creative sound bite is always welcome. However, it still remains a straw man, no more and no less. The seventeen year old basturd is here, living, breathing and growing stronger everyday. Of course, you're within your rights to attempt to character assassinate him by referring to his background and origins but, objective analysis would (in the normal course of things) force you to acknowledge his existence and eventually accept that harking back to his origins at every turn is a futile argument.

 

In short, you can by all means disagree with, oppose and contest the existence of Somaliland but after seventeen years of that existence it is quite foolish to harp on about original reasons and what not. Let me give you a tip and advise you to concentrate on reasons why you believe the 48 year old with a birth certificate is more worthy of support. It'll make your argument more commanding and objective than the crazy attempts of trying to ignore the seventeen year old one.

 

You see, when I'm bursting with objectivity I share it around. Now say thank you.

 

Ps

Coming out of the cold is an invigorating experience. I would not have done it for any lesser reason than the fact that the Somaliland administration has finally proven its ability to play the game of politics. Isn't time you stopped the whining and gave credit where it's due? They played a blinder by driving a wedge through the ranks of those in the disputed territories. And all done with hardly any Somaliland guns being used.

[Laba-X]

Originally posted by Suldaanka:

^^ Laba Xiin, before you are taken seriously in the political face-offs, you'll need to spend enough time here to be noticed.

 

^^I see it's a case of seeking fame for you. Bal aan kaa jahli-bixiyee ii dhega-nuglaw.

 

You see, the essential element of an argument or debate is that is brings out a motivated exploration of a subject. People exchange ideas and opinions, laying everything on the table and from there on proceeding to sift through the ideas presented. But it is the very staunch opinions and presumption of most secessionists that inhibit explorations. So instead of discussing the subject at hand, most of your time is consumed by the win/lose factor of the conversation; on attack and defence rather than contributing anything even remotely constructive to the table. Such is your stance, Sultan! Dislodge this from your mind and you may benefit from the fruitful voyage of education.

 

A secessionist is always on the defence, simply because of his impalpable ideas which he, in hindsight, knows will never materialize.

 

Astounding it is the certainty with which many secessionists speak of Sool and Sanaag as being part and parcel of Somaliland alleging legitimacy to land; and astounded they become once their ornamental tales of secession and metaphorical outlook becomes dwarfed by the natives’ demands, how implicit, of a strong national unity.

 

Their ideas and dreams of secession, now impoverished, lie dangling on one thing; hope and of course the incessant imploring of Westerners by piling on the agony of the late 80s, which they paid back in no less equal measure, dare I say.

 

Looking at a map, my friends, is not the same as travelling. One may forever be left to contemplate the appealing towns and cities in exaggerated thrill, knowing that he will never venture out to them due to his meagre resources.

 

Secessionism has no solid grounds!

[Suldaanka]

^^Cajiib!!

 

Funny how you talk about having discussions and exploring ideas and as such in the beginning of your post. But then again, as expected, you degenerate into the usual clanish nonsense as manifested in the views that you hold towards Sool and Sanaag.

 

Sool and Sanaag are not only part and parcel of Somaliland but these regions are an integral part of the nation and without them there can be no Somaliland state. Badhan is legally as much part of Somaliland as Gabiley, Borama or Buuhoodle.

 

That having said, those that oppose Somaliland do exist and are real. We are not going to turn a blind eye to the existence of those opposing Somaliland's independence, but what I can tell you is that, these same folks are in no position to change the course of Somaliland. And answering your assertion that Somaliland can not venture into those remote villages, I see no reason at all. Venturing is one thing, and knowing that those small hamlets are by default part of Somaliland is another. So long that the political capitals of Somaliland's main regions, namely Erigavo, Laascaanood, Borama, Berbera, Burco and Hargeisa, are firmly and strongly under Somaliland hands, that is all its needed at this stage.

 

The push towards an eventual recognition is a task that is before Somalilanders and is being fought out in the diplomatic cirlces of world. I have every reason to believe that the successful resolution in that front is nearer than many think. But one thing is for certain, and that is the eventual recognition of Somaliland is coming.

[Jacaylbaro]

[Baashi]

Haha. Coming in from the cold, indeed! That’s the spirit awoowe. Didn’t know you withhold support from the secessionists’ admin precisely because of their inability (in the past) to effectively play subclans in Sool off of each other and maneuver them into divisions. Haha no kidding! And now they’ve done that with some “success” you are finally on board. Dang who would have thought the fence-sitter was indeed a hardcore supporter in disguise!! Good gracious

 

So you are for disrupting the peace, and deepening the animosity between folks there as long as it serves the secessionists’ short goals!! What a loyal flag waver It’s politics alright! I agree. But I’m disappointed in you that it took this kind of politics for my man Oodweyne to persuade you hop on the secessionists’ bandwagon? You are so full of mercury my “fickle weather” friend.

 

As for the existence of secessionists’ fiefdom awoowe you gotta do better than that for its existence is not an issue. At issue is dismembering Somalia. Secessionists as many other corners of Somalia are in control of their area. They want to secede. Others don’t. They haven’t successfully seceded “yet”. Again the difference boils down to the intention. Intention is not a reality.

 

Secession has acceptance criteria. They have failed to meet those criteria. Hence they are still part and parcel of Somali Republic. They just couldn’t close the deal. All of this after seventeen years of quacking at every nest out there. Seventeen years of anarchy down in Benadir. The forty eight year old -- the handicapped and wounded fella -- is holding up on his own with less effort and not much of quacking -- to use your analogy. Besides there are those who say the 17 yrs old basturrd is the son of the 48 yrs old fella. You see!

 

Absence of closure -- by way of securing the recognition golden cup -- the case for or against secession is pretty much relevant. Anglophiles of the site have plenty of reasons -- and are eager to showcase those reasons (like colonial subjugation card as well as the pitiful grievances card something they share with the rest) -- why the country should be dismembered. I’m sure your guru would insist on that that bit is in fact exhibition A of the proceeding. Moreover, he would agree that we are still in the middle of the proceeding.

 

I’m kind of taken back by your insistence to omit what otherwise would be “the” gist of the argument.

 

PS: Speaking of making the case for what I stand for, what does it take to convince you that Sool & Sanaag, or for that matter Maakhir, have the right to decide for themselves for what their status would be and they are not bound by now defunct past colonial subjugation legacy? You don’t have to applaud for playing Sool & Sanaag residents off of each other.

[Koora-Tuunshe]

^You argument suffers from Illogical causality saxib.