AU Road Map for Peace in Somalia

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Qabiil names, particularly derogatory terms, would not, will not be allowed on this forum.

 

Idinkoo raali ah ka dhaafa qabiil names aad meesha kusoo qoreysiin, qaas ahaana pejorative words.

 

Hadduu this thread saan ku socdo in la xiro ayee noqonee, which we don't want it to happen since it was and still is a positive, debate-inducing -- not argumentative one -- thread.

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

^I am not aware that he did. Could you please provide the proof?

 

I disagree with Mr. Yusuf if he said that. That is a foolish position to take.

 

'Defeated terrorists' are not my words. Kindly refrain from questioning my position with words not my own.

 

Whether the mayor cares or not doesn't matter in the end. What matters is whether

you care.

Abdullahi Yusuf has said ample times that those wanting to come to the table with him must lay down their arms and recognise the government. He also said that he is at war with the "religous" men in Somalia and that he would fight them and remove their wealth from them. The proof, in his own words, are on these very forums. I can't really be bothered 2 search, Ya Ahhi. Secondly, the defeated terrorists remark was not attributed to you, rather in general it was used by many TFG supporters on these boards. We see there is a general trend from TFG politicians to reach out and try have dialogue with the terrorists they couldn't catch for Bush and Zenawi, but that is probably a good thing. As for caring about Somalis suffering, Allah swt knows what is my heart and it is HE who has legislated that Muslims shouldn't surrender or become servants to any man that occupiers/attacks even an inch of their land!

[N.O.R.F]

Ya Xiin, I have seen you repeat the need for reconciliation and I agree but you are yet to allude (unless I missed it) how that may/should come about. Considering the fact that the TFG/Ethios have set out conditions to any negotiation, how can a reconcialiation take place? Should it happen without a consensus on the occupaying forces and the need for their withdrawal sooner rather than later? Is Yeey a man to be trusted enough to end the insurgency and down weapons? What should the opposition do? The cartoon picture I posted is a good example of how you want things to happen miya? Have Yeey or any other warlord yes man rule Somalia? Gun to the head negotiations?

 

Its one thing calling for reconciliation but quite another discussing the facts on the ground and whether or not a reconciliation is a) possible b) has set out the right objectives and c) the players involved should be trusted. Can this be discussed with you and Baashi without blowing your cyber trumphets in a percieved cyber victory? Your arguments are based on the simple notion that there should be reconcialition talks (we all agree) but you fail to look at/discuss the parameters required for such talks to take place. My position is clear. Please clarify yours.

 

ps SL support and anti TFG/Ethio = hypocracy to some. I dont mind the lable if it means people wont use it to try and hold up their arguments

 

I dont see any Mahmoud Abbas's in Eritrea I'm afraid and a dose of realism is required dont ya think?

[N.O.R.F]

Build a consensus boys, build a consensus.

 

TFG National Reconciliation Board Talks With Opposition

 

 

Shabelle Media Network (Mogadishu)

 

1 February 2008

Posted to the web 1 February 2008

 

 

Speaking to the reporters on Thursday at Baidao town southwestern Somalia the deputy chairman of the national reconciliation committee Mohamed sheikh Yusuf has publicly said that they would make intercession this year among the government and the opposition groups to out of place the stagnated disagreements between the two sides.

 

Asked about the opposition's refusal about there mediation until Ethiopian troops pull out from Somalia he emphasized that there have been phone-line chatting flanked by them and the opposition and he expressed enormous sanguinity about the triumph of there conciliation efforts.

 

 

"We shall publicly show you what ever we have from this attempt" He said

http://allafrica.com/stories/200802010519.html

[Malika]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Folks, you must understand our divisions are real and deep. And divided people, as we are, can never succeed in their struggle against a united foe. Without political reconciliation, Somalia’s conflict will even get messier, and the current humanitarian crisis even more dire. Truth, peace, justice, and forgiveness are what Somalis and Somalia need today. If Somalis political divide had similar goals and concepts of governance, there wouldn’t be any need for reconciliation. But because Somalis have fundamental political differences over which they so violently fought each other and sought the help of Ethiopia, our historical enemy, to tip the military balance, we must wise up, shun this puritan approach of this-is-evil-and-that-is-devil crap, and accept the painful fact that no one side can win this even if one side entertains it could. Our politics is qabiil based with a secular tilt. But our masses are ripe for a government that transcends beyond tribal boundaries, and reflects their religious values. But peace and stability must come first before such maturity is harvested.

 

And how can I end this without exposing the utter absurdity of the assertion that there can be no reconciliation because too much blood has been shed, too many muslimaat have been gang raped, or too much property have been destroyed. Isn’t that the very reason we are in dire need for reconciliation, brother? I mean don’t you see it…

 

Masha'allah,indeed these are words filled with wisdom..Too bad,they seem to fall on deaf ears.We are only cheating ourselves by not allowing ourselves to build bridges.Unity in diversity is an ongoing process in many countries,it could easily be implemented in our supposedly Islamic country.Just words on the screen these exchanges might be but they do play a great deal in contributing to the already many sources of fadhii kudhiriir across the world were ever there are Somalis. I believe its our responsibility as the Educated elite to generate and promote harmonious interaction, why not be those whom exert themselves in accentuating the virtues and uniqueness of our people. Instead on continuously debating on our differences ,our grievances and so forth.

Its one thing speaking out about injustice, but its another thing to incite hate, division or uttering clannish slurs, next time when its so tempting to do so bear in mind that soil is all you will be when you die. You will be held accountable for your actions or for your inactions…we all will be.

 

Much love brothers!

[me]

Originally posted by Isseh:

My suggestion of going beyond Kismaayo is to simply safe face for some folks in here, who only seem to be delve into the belly of drivel, a tendency that does not do justice to the established characters. But if you insist on the continuation of discussing the Kismaayo issue, then, I say, by all means do please

.

Too late hombre.

[Nephissa]

The problem is that there are hardliners on both sides who do no want peace until the other side is gone. They're going by Stalin's "Die, but do not retreat" motto. It is easy to see why these conflicts can be kept going for century after century. Hatred is timeless.

 

I hate this planet - I truly feel I was born in the wrong century..

[ElPunto]

^I'm not sure which century was better! Perhaps you meant you would rather have been born on another planet.

[NASSIR]

Indeed Dahia, Mr. xiinfanin has penned the wisdom we all need to have in order to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by Nephthys:

The problem is that there are hardliners on both sides who do no want peace until the other side is gone. They're going by Stalin's

"Die, but do not retreat"

motto. It is easy to see why these conflicts can be kept going for century after century. Hatred is timeless.

 

I hate this planet - I truly feel I was born in the wrong century..

Exactly my friend. Alshabab al Mujahideen or at least the group led by Sheikh Fuad, Abu Mansur and others don't want sit down with secular T.F.G, whom they see as Gaalo and Ethiopians whom they see as Crusaders. It is unlikely that they will compromise their principles and pan out an all inclusive power sharing deal for Somalia with the Secular T.F.G, that is assuming they are invited in the first place. They want nothing short of Shariah Somalia and Ethiopians to leave Somalia. They even broke ties with Sheikh Shariff for adopting nationalistic rhetoric and for stating the American Islamic Courts volunteer was a foreigner and foreigners shouldn't be fighting in Somalia.

 

 

The other side, ie the Ethiopians and T.F.G will only meet "moderate" members of the I.C.U like the ones in Asmara. The American adminstration will also never allow "extremists" such as Sheikh Hassan Turki to be involved in the political process.

 

 

Ethiopia looks like She will stay in Somalia until the end of the year or most probably until farcical elections take place in 2009. The Americans also want Ethiopians to stay for a longer period.

 

That is essentially the gridlock in Somalia, everybody says they have the solution to open the traffic, that is: reconcialition,compromise and dialogue! How this will translate into political reality on the ground has yet to be explained!

[xiinfaniin]

^^I didn’t ask you about al shabaab’s position on reconciliation or tfg’s or America’s for that matter! What I asked you my good friend is your position! Your explanation implies if these entities change their current position so do you!

 

edit:

 

Northern, you are dancing around the whole point of this discussion adeer. Are you as an individual for a dialog or not? Do you agree with the Somalia’s priority of solving their internal problems first before facing external challenges? Do you see a compromised settlement between the warring parties as the only way out of this mess or you subscribe to the fatal notion that says until tfg is defeated and Ethiopia is driven out no political compromise can be reached?

[Fabregas]

My position or even your position is particularly irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things. What Alshabab, Ethiopia and America say matters a great deal, that is fairly obvious. I made my position clear before and i'll say it again:

 

I completely support negotiation and dialogue with any Somali entities and even Ethiopians if they are sincere in leaving Somalia and creating a peaceful working solution in Somalia. Clearly a "compromised solution" between the warring groups in Somalia could end the war in Somalia, again that is fairly obvious to everyone.

 

 

However, it is up to you to explain to us what goals should exactly be compromised. If Ethiopians are staying in Somalia for another year,what approach should Somalis take? Should Somalis stop resistance for the time being as everyone is dying according to you? Should they unite first, reconcile and then fight the good fight against the occupiers? Should Alshabab and I.C.U abandon demands for Shariah law and join and compromise with a secular government? If you're not going to tell us how you reconcialition thingy works, then this will get boring an repetitive, ie you will tell us all day you believe in compromise and dialogue! And then Baashi will proclaim everyone(except him) is for the killing of children and bla bla bla......

 

To clarify my position again:

 

Reconcialition can't and has never happened in an occupied/failed state with gross foreign interference. But there can be negotiation between T.FG.,Ethiopia and I.C.U to facilitate and end to the current war. Remember negotiation and reconcialition are two different things. Reconcialition can happen in a free country whereby all Somalis can independently sort out their differences. But if you guys are saying Somalis can sit at a tree and thus remove the need for Ethiopian troops or perhaps even unite to drive them out. You guys have to explain that one to us,as I am still struggling to get my head around it!

 

Remember when Baashi had a got at me last year, when I said the Muqdisho conference reconcialitian conference would be a farce and couldn't unite Somalis? He argued we should give it a chance as Somalis clans could potentianlly unite under that scenario! I said then that the meeting would be an Ethiopian organised farce and thus couldn't stop the war, reconcile or bring Somalis closer together. Of course he read it as sign supporting more war and the killing of "mataada". I admit that I don't have a solution for Somalia which could end the political deadlock. I could also type in the word reconcialition on my screen a dozen or so time and pretend it will do something for Somalia, when the major players are not at all interested. That would a deserve a thread dedicated to all the political dreams of Solers and their visions for Somalia NOT a mature and detailed proposals on how the deadlock can be solved in Somalia!

[Che -Guevara]

Xiin...Do you realise never have the TFG top officials came out in support of one concerted effort to initiate peace. The president, the prime minster, and the speaker of the parliament have all came out to say contradicting statements on the issue of reconcialation. While Cadde calls for dioluge,you will have Yeey proclaiming he won't sit with the terrorists. How one would anyone sit with entity that has no unified voice, not mention beholden to foriegn force.

[xiinfaniin]

Yaa Goat man, what happened in Mogadishu last year was not a reconciliation. It was a useless gathering precisely because opposing parties could not partake in it. I hope i got that out of the way.

 

Now if you are for reconciliation with no conditions attached out of the conviction that Somalis in their present condition can’t do any serious fight to anyone then your subsequent queries would make sense. And I shall try answering them.

 

 

1- If Ethiopians are staying in Somalia for another year, what approach should Somalis take? I.e. Should Somalis stop resistance for the time being as everyone is dying according to you?

 

In the face of a united somalis, Ethiopias would be worrying about thier own stability and would not be insisting staying on our soil. That does not mean they wouldn't frustrate our efforts toward unity. But even if Ethiopians decide to continue thier occupation after somalis had politically reconciled then you would agree with me whatever somalis decide would be more effective than the half measaure strategy some are currently employing.

2- Should they unite first, reconcile and then fight the good fight against the occupiers?

Yes. They should remove thier political differences through compromise, revive the organs of their state, and prepare themselves the regional challenges that await them.

 

3- Should Alshabab and I.C.U abandon demands for Shariah law and join and compromise with a secular government?

 

Yes. Absulately. And I know Courts would compromise on this. I dont know about al shabaab though.

 

Now these are short and quick answers. I shall return and expand on them when time permits.

 

edit:

Che, we need a paradigm shift in our thinking. I want you to make up your mind and give me a yes vote for reconciliation regardless of what the involved parties's stands are. They don’t operate in a vacuum. They will change their positions soon…

 

ps-- dont you know by now that Yey is foolish old man? Why do you care what he says?

[Xoogsade]

The article quoted below may be relevant to the discussion. If this materializes, and Ethiopian troops leave our country, negotiations are possible.

 

 

Ciidamo la geynayo Somalia

3 Feb 3, 2008 - 12:42:35 PM

 

 

 

Ra'iisul Wasaaraha Somalia Nuur Xasan Xuseen [Nuur Cadde] oo u warramayay Idaacadda BBC-da qaybteeda Afka Carabiga ayaa sheegay inuu helay damaanad-qaad ku aaddan in ciidamo la geynayo Somalia.

 

Nuur Cadde, wuxuu sheegay in madaxdii horay u ballaqaaday inay ciiidamo geynayaan Somalia ay u sheegeen isaga inay geyn doonaan Somalia ciidamadii ay ballanqaadeen xilliyada soo socda, isagoo sheegay in hadalkaas ka sheegeen shir madaxeedka Afrika.

 

"Madaxweynaha Nigeria Umaru Musa Yar'Adua, wuxuu si gaar ah iigu sheegay in dalkiisa uu diyaar u yahay inuu ciidamo u diro Somalia, kuwaasoo qayb ka noqon doona nabad ilaaliyeyaasha Afirkaanka ah ee AMISOM" ayuu sheegay Nuur Xasan Xuseen [Nuur Cadde].

 

Ra'iisul Wasaaruhu, wuxuu sidoo kale sheegay in xoghayaha guud ee Qarammada Midoobay Ban Ki Moon ay isla garteen in ciidamo nabad ilaalin ah oo ka socda Qarammada Midoobay loo soo diro Somalia, si ay u badalaan ciidamada Afrikaanka iyo kuwa Itoobiyaanka ah ee ku sugan Somalia.

 

Waxaa jira warar soo baxaya oo sheegaya in Ra'isal Wasaraha Somalia aad u doonayo in la helo ciidamo lagu badalo kuwa Ethiopia oo iminka ku sugan Somalia madaama ay adagtahay in wadhadal lala furo mucaaradka.

 

Dalal ka mid ah Midowga Afrika ayaa waxay horay u ballanqadeen inay u soo dirayaan Somalia ciidamo nabad ilaalin ah; kuwaasoo gaaraya 8500-askari, waxaase ku sugan Somalia in ka badan 2000-askari; waxayna madaxda dalalkaas horay u sheegeen inaysan geyn karin Somalia ciidamo sababo ku aaddan dagaallada u dhexeeya dagaallada ka dhaca caasimadda Somalia.

 

Garowe Online, Muqdisho

 

http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/Wararka_19/Ciidamo_la_geynayo_Somalia.shtml