Thread on rebellion against muslim rulers!

[Fiqikhayre]

Sister one simple questions you could not answer satisfactory so I will give you a chance at it once again!

 

'How did a qabiil based local Mogadishu clan courts system turn into a broad exclusive and representative body that can speak for the whole of Somalia'?

 

You didn't answer that!

 

For you refuting the PL-Ulama and saying they're irrelevant let me say that the Shyuukh you mentioned are also irrelvant in the light of the what the great Ulama said, who they were their students!

 

You've not brought any evidence but the usual ranting at saying 'They're not muslim rulers', 'Aiders of the Kufaar' and 'They're hypocrites'!

 

Apart from personal accusations put agains me and others!

 

I shall bring forth my evidence and then it will be for everyone with intellect to appreciate the things I said to be nothing but the hard truth!

 

Inshallaah then will we compare if Sheikh Cukaasha is on par with Sheikh Muhammed Naasiruddin Al-Albaani, Sheikh Al-Cuthaymiin, Sheikh Bin Baz and Sheikh Muqbil!

 

Wait and see I say!

[Rahima]

Lancer,

 

JZK, this is the point I’ve been making all along.

 

 

MKA,

 

Once again avoiding the issue here. I told you for arguments sake lets even accept that the courts are not what they claim to be but a group driven by their own motives which are not about Islam. That still does not change the point that CY and co are the catalysts for gaalo invading a Muslim. That without even looking at the courts highlights what these men are about.

 

'How did a qabiil based local Mogadishu clan courts system turn into a broad exclusive and representative body that can speak for the whole of Somalia'?

 

You didn't answer that!

I did, twice , you just don’t get it. I can’t do anymore for you mate.

 

You've not brought any evidence but the usual ranting at saying 'They're not muslim rulers', 'Aiders of the Kufaar' and 'They're hypocrites'!

Rants? You actually believe that to heighlight such important points is ranting. Like I said, you and I do not have the same caqiida, for I hold al-walaa’ wal-baraa’ as taught to us by Rasuallah very dearly and you, well it's clear what you think of that!

 

Inshallaah then will we compare if Sheikh Cukaasha is on par with Sheikh Muhammed Naasiruddin Al-Albaani, Sheikh Al-Cuthaymiin, Sheikh Bin Baz and Sheikh Muqbil!

You are so full of qabiil and hate walaahi, that I knew, but let me make something clear for the readers here. I used the names of 4 shuyuukh as opposed to others just in case qabiil infatuated folks such as MKA make accusations about their intentions (i.e. in that they support their clan). Out of this list however, I’ve also indicated that no doubt Shariif Cabdi Nuur is the most knowledgeable, but who does MKA choose to pick for comparison- yep the ‘enemy’, put it this way Xasan Dahir Aweys and Sh. Cukaasha share a clan lineage, whereas the others do not. The rest finish off the wretched 4.5 formula of our even more wretched government.

 

I shall bring forth my evidence and then it will be for everyone with intellect to appreciate the things I said to be nothing but the hard truth!

Go ahead mate, but lets set some ground rules, first of which is this is not about the courts so do not make it the point.

 

The discussion here is Muslims aiding kufaar against Muslims, what is their status in Islam? does Islam permit it? And if it is a leader can the Muslims get rid of him if they are able to?

 

I know you won’t stick to the real issue here, but if you do we’ll debate and we will see not only what Sh. Albani, Bin Baz and Cuthaimian and Muqbal have said on the matter but also Rasulallah and Allah swt Himself.

[Fiqikhayre]

Allaah and then what Rasuulullaah said sister! Why don't you want to discuss the Jihaad of the ICU because this thread is solely based on the ICU's unwillingeness to stop their futile rebellion/revolution against the same government they recognised even is its last days and thus demise?

 

Let's make the isssue real! You calling the rulers of Somalia 'hypocrites' is also unproductive and wrong because you cannot call a muslim a 'hypocrite' because you don't know what he/she harbours in their heart!

 

So what I'm talking about is the takfiiris danger of labelling muslims 'kaafirs' that have renounced the faith whilst other's accuse them of being hypocrites!

 

Let me ask you Rahima have you looked at Abdullahi Yusuf's heart to confirm that he's a hypocrite?

 

I want from you to swear to the gallery that President Abdullahi Yusuf is a hypocrite! I demand it you doing it! I know you haven't gone all the way to declare him a 'apostate kaafir' but nevertheless I demand you telling the gallery that you have had a look at Abdullahi Yusuf's heart and come to knowledge that he's a hypocrite!

 

The issue has shifted from first ICU's legitimacy, to the definition of a muslim ruler, to the claim of TFG not ruling with the kitaab of Allaah (the Sharia) and hence being not worth to rule, to muslims aiding kufaar against muslim, why?

 

Because they could not deal nor refute the things I said!

 

Allaah is great! Rahima the issue at hand or we discussed is not the issue you bringing up right now but as the thread says rebellion against muslim rulers!

 

I guess you're not denying that President Abdullahi Yusuf is a muslim ruler are you?

[Jacpher]

Originally posted by

MKA Yoonis:

What a

takfiiri you're!

Even the sister Rahima didn't go so far, she knows the difference of committing sins (acts of kufr), which one doesn't take out of the fold of islaam to kufr which one takes out of Islaam!

AND

 

Originally posted by

MKA Yoonis:

Otherwise you will become a takfiiri and I don't believe that you ascribe to the khawaarijis of the Jihaadists/Al-Qaeda branch but more to the

Ikhwaani/Islaax and Qutubi brand!

You got more labels for me? Do you want to tell me who my sister in-law is? Before you address Islam/Muslim issues, get a grip of your impulsive behavior and sexist & clannish language. Tone down your ignorance and concentrate more on correcting your offensive behavior before you preach us about disobedience and fitnah.

[Taliban]

Labels or terms like "takfiiri", "khawaarijis", "Jihaadists/Al-Qaeda", "Ikhwaani/Islaax", "Qutubi", "Wahhabi", iwm are labels or terms strange to Muslims. Those labels or terms were invented by the West. All what secular Muslims know is how to mimic those labels or terms; they can't invent their own labels or terms, because the West only allows them to mimic what is invented for them.

[Castro]

I think it's time Yonis was left alone. What say you Solers?

[Captain Xalane]

Aah,another attempt of sabotage from the chief cheerleader himself.Dude,who is u to tell pple what to do?

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by Taliban:

Labels or terms like "takfiiri", "khawaarijis", "Jihaadists/Al-Qaeda", "Ikhwaani/Islaax", "Qutubi", "Wahhabi", iwm are labels or terms strange to Muslims. Those labels or terms were invented by the West. All what secular Muslims know is how to mimic those labels or terms; they can't invent their own labels or terms, because the West only allows them to mimic what is invented for them.

Takfir Walhijra, Ikwanil Muslimeen, Al qaeda... are all groups that actually exist.Infact the terror that the west is so afraid of was perpetrated on muslims by these aforementioned groups.......

[Taliban]

Originally posted by Abu_Geeljire:

Infact the terror that the west is so afraid of was perpetrated on muslims by these aforementioned groups.......

I am not sure about that. Maybe, it's secular Muslims who perpetrated on Muslims the terror that the west is so afraid of.

[Rahima]

Let me ask you Rahima have you looked at Abdullahi Yusuf's heart to confirm that he's a hypocrite?

You write words of hypocrisy yourself mate, preaching to me about a man such as CY whose actions are well known to all, yet you criticise in unspeakable terms men who even if they achieved nothing, did not at least bring along kufaar to invade Muslims. That is my point, CY and co have at the very least commited not only acts of kufr but of hypocrisy.

 

 

Anyhow, let’s not go around in circles. Answer a couple of questions to get things under way.

 

1.Does Islam allow for the removable of a leader?

2.If so, under what conditions and by whom.

 

I pose these questions for in this thread of yours (in a bid to justify actions of hypocrisy by CY and co) not only are you misusing the point of Islam frowning upon rebellion against the leader but you are also trying to mask that this is not a blanket rule but rather that Islam does allow for the removable of a leader once certain conditions are met. Once we discuss the general viewpoint of Islam on the matter, we shall then go on to discuss the Somali situation and wether or not it was in fact a jihad and wether or not CY and co are to be removed for their actions of hypocrisy (if it won't cause more problems for the ummah).

[NASSIR]

^When we have millions of $ spent on the reconciliation of Somalis in Mbgathi which resulted in the election of Abdullahi as the TFG president, is it not wrong to discredit such leader and espouse a monolothic movement? I assume you meant to hint "the removable of a leader" as Sheikh Sharif, the self-nominated ruler of the erstwhile Islamists.

 

Good thread by Taako Man.

[NASSIR]

Muslim Ethiopians abound Ethiopian troops and consider themselves as Ethiopians. Islam is the most widely practiced religion in Ethiopia (source: CIA World Factbook) If we rule out the elite ruling class, Ethiopia can not be exclusively considered as a Christian State as most observers do.

 

This is what Sheikh Barud said prior to the war.

 

"“all Somali Christians must be killed according to the Islamic law. A Muslim can never become a Christian but he can become an apostate. Such people do not have a place in Somalia and we will never recognize their existence and we will slaughter them”

 

Talk about Intolerance in our doomed society.

 

http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2006/10/19/somali-islamists-declare-we-will-slaughter-christians-somalis-are-100-muslim-and-will-always-remain-so/

[Fabregas]

And your point is caamir? besides that link is complete and utter propoganda.

[NASSIR]

Geeljire, Don't you believe that we are very intolerant society?

My point, when Islam is the most widely practiced religion in Ethiopoia, how can we label them as Kufaars? Yes there are Kufaar elements but to label all as Kufaars is disingeneous and misleading. Besides, Ethiopia came to assist us and it is ready to pull its troops anytime.

[Jacpher]

^^Good question Abu Geeljire.

 

Originally posted by Caamir:

^When we have millions of $ spent on the reconciliation of Somalis in Mbgathi which resulted in the election of Abdullahi as the TFG president, is it not wrong to discredit such leader

^^With all due respect, discrediting one’s reputation and pointing out the facts of one’s reputation are two different things.

 

Fact:

 

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth.

2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true.

 

Discredit

 

1. to injure the credit or reputation of; defame.

2. to show to be undeserving of trust or belief; destroy confidence in.

3. to give no credence to; disbelieve.

 

So is it not wrong and dishonest to withhold facts??