Maybe United Somalia was never meant to be!

[Haneefah]

Shayhem & Muraad, ala dhib badnidinaa!! lol...take it easy on the poor girl guyz, she was just trying to express her point of view...besides what good does personal attacks bring, afterall the beauty of a debate is the disagreement and being able to see everyone's perspective about the subject.

 

Ameenah...tell these ppl dee!

[WingA]

there is no-more somalia!! only by name!! until the warlords sort themselves out in the near future then may allah help somali's who live back "home"..

 

somali's all over the world are day by day thinking there no hope for our country so they do want ever they want and fukk up there lives.. if there was some +'s not -'s in somalia right now then things mite be looking up for our ppl not its not so HOPE is fading week by week, month by month and year by year!!

 

peez..

[Che -Guevara]

People....This is not pessimistic argument. It is reality. There is no Somalia. It is only there in name. We have to get real. We might be the same people but we can't coexist together as a nation( atleast present generation can't). I was merely saying consider dividing country as one of options to get out of this mess.

ProudSista and others who said we will be more vulnerable.....Come on, Nomads how we can get any more vulnerable.....We already are very vulnerable to point where anyone with enough fire , man power and money can take over Somalia.

Barqaawo.....I get the feeling the Sayyid was one time phenomenen. I dought we will have the likes of him anytime soon.

[GarYaQaaN]

Somalis are predisposed to hatred. Its part of being Somali and is thus cultural. Fighting, stubbornness, and quarrelling are highly valued qualities that mothers wish upon their sons & daughters. Those who are lucky enough to have these traits are considered “diric”. What puzzles me the most is that there seems to be a fight wherever Somalis gather in large numbers (e.g. parties), yet those same people act so docile and polite when they are around non-Somalis or at non-Somali events. Why is that?

 

Coming back to the topic, I think Somalis were/are always in conflict and would remained to do so in a long time. There was no such thing as “Somalia” before the white man came and is thus as artificial as Kenya or any other African country. Yes, a homogenous people who spoke one language, looked the same, and practiced the same religion inhabited the land but they were never a political unit, rather they organized themselves by tribes, and the only enemy they have known except Ethiopians were themselves!

 

What’s wrong with Somalia is the use of "Qabil" as a political category. Qabil was important in the old days where it provided protection from other people. It played the role of the government. In those days where every one was for himself, belonging to a Qabil meant that you're property and Life will be respected, if not the one who violates would have to deal with you and you're Qabil. Often outsiders were adopted by a Qabil and thus given proctection. In a sense it was the Supreme law enforcer of the land.

 

However, it makes no sense to use Qabil now because, if there is a State or government that will enforce the law of the Land, and will treat the population equally, then the use of Qabil for political purpose is counterproductive. For example if a men from another Qabil kills a men, the government should take the necessary steps to ensure justice not the Qabil. If we let the Qabil perform the duties of the government than there is really no government or State because the definition of state is to have a monopoly on the use of force, or Authority. By the Qabil stepping in, it weakens the State, which leads to people more and more relaying on their Qabil, rather than the State.

 

You might ask what is wrong with this? Well, by giving the Qabil more Authority the State is weakened. This leads to a competition between Qabils for resources. Instead of the State working for the common good of "All" and the equal distribution of resources, there will be chaos and bloodshed in consequence to individuals and groups who want everything and NONE to the rest of the population.

 

After independence the use of Qabil continued and eventually undermined the “Somali State” and Pan-Somalism. This tragedy was compounded by the fact that there is/was not really one Dominant Qabil, which is why we have this Stalemate. But the Question is who benefits from this situation? Clearly it is evident that the benefactors of the current situation are the Warlords or the Individuals who use Qabil to define their political agenda. He who says, "I am going to stand for our Qabil—and defend our rights" seems to get the Torch. Also one might want to know the losers of the situation. The losers are the common folks, who blindly give the torch to the warlord. To them it seems that their Qabil will give them things the state cannot provide them. To reconcile Qabil and State some warlords propose the creation of a state (e.g. Puntland, Somaliland, etc), and ordinary Somalis follow like sheep thinking that would bring salvation. Others see this, and ask why can’t we (Qabil A, B, C, etc) also have our own State? Since when a Qabil = State? God help these poor disoriented folks. AMEN.

 

It is obvious where our problems lie; it is the use of Qabil to achieve political goals. In doing so very little of the population benefits and the rest suffer because Qabil cannot bring the benefits for example a State can bring. A State in its best form is the enforcer of law and order, and the distributor of resources equally. And which works for the advancement of "all" of its Citizens. In that case Somalia never had a “State”. And for those who are advocating for mini-States, what proof do you have that they would be Qabil free? And what happens to minorities that happen to cohabit that land with the dominant Qabil?

 

My fellow Somalis lets do everything we can do to undermine the use of Qabil for political gains that includes regionalism or stateism. Lets work for the creation of that Somali State that we all deserve; the one that protects all of our rights, that sees us all as equal citizens, and works for the advancement of all Somalis! I am keeping my fingers crossed. Looking forward to your comments. Peace

[Dhimbil]

Somalia's way out is not mini-states, it maybe for now but not long term. Prime example is the fighting between S.lands admin and P.land admin for a small piece of land that is located between the two regions. I don't think we want all types of mini-state admin's fighting for lands to be included in their "mini-state". Also what happens when a city within a mini-state wants to be its own state because the residents feel the gov is not serving their "interest". Where does it stop? cuz everyone will argue self-determination...this would be the name of the game.

 

In saying that...

I definitely think each region developing it self is admirable and should be highly praised for the effort. Further,I agree with some of the nomads federal gov is the best alternative. But running rampant with somalia is dead slogan is the least we need now.

 

Pray for unity, if you can't do nothing else. thanks

[Che -Guevara]

Garyaqaan....Everybody acts different when they are around foriegners. It is not something unique to us.

Illmatic....Maybe regionalism is not bad idea. It could help in driving out tribalism.

[Che -Guevara]

Originally posted by BARWAAQO:

Damn!

 

Nomads, you are too young to be this pessimistic! Somalia isn't dead, it isn't better off divided and we are not all animals.

I wonder how Val and the wonderful nomads in this feel today about Somalia.

[Fabregas]

Somalia was a colonial creation anyway, we want a united East African Islamic empire. This will take a long time and alot of hard work to materialise, but it will happen inshallahu!

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Originally posted by Geel_Jire12:

Somalia was a colonial creation anyway...

How? Don't tell me beentii ugu weyneed laga sheego Soomaaliya inaad ku aamintay.

[rudy-Diiriye]

not the current way homie!! with amxaaro moeing down innocent ppl! this is evil.

 

remember we came a long way before!! u remember xawaa taako and all the stuff!! thats the kind of bloods we need...! not fakers. :confused:

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Northerner:

ppl why all the negativity?

 

Not one of us can truly say somalia is a hopeless state, and anybody who does is weak. When it comes to politics in the region, i'm the first one to admit that we are not the best of politicians.

 

However, i hope insha-allah, when i have done what i have need to do in the UK, i will go back and see what i could do and hope others like me will be there doing the same.

 

Insha-allah all will be well, ameen!

I agree with this great gentleman, indeed. Yaan naxariista ilaahey laga quusan, waxaa quusta oo kaliyah kuwa gaalada ah, nacam, that is absulately true.

 

The more I see the person is leaning towards Aduunyo and Gaalo ideology, is the more I find they are hopeless. Somalia has undergone many more problems than this 16 years of political instability, but the difference today is that we've got many people like Che who insist to keep Somalia with words, having no sacrifices. He believes that Somalia needs what the U.S. has, of freedom, of security, of prosperity and so forth, but he also believes such ideals can be obtained by mere words, without struggling for them. Our past generations had suffered indeed to make possible what defines us as qowmiyad and bulsho la yiraahdo Soomaali. They fought and worked hard to bring about what they cared so much about freedom of Islam and freedom to be loyal and brave Muslims.

 

But today, the west had tricked us with the worest programs of the world by taking our youth to Qurbo and making them cowards who brag about the disavowing of their country. At least the African Americans were snatched out from their beloved homelands in Africa by force, and we know what becomes of them after living in the west for several centuries, but my problem is those of us who came here and stayed for less than 10 years to come out and say 'We need to give up our country if we can't become like the other countries with intact nationhood'.

 

Wallee hadeey dhalinteena sidaas u fakarayaan, reer galbeed waa naga raayeen, iney naga dhigaan 'self-haters who hate everything about themselves including our great past'.

 

Che, ilaahey haku soo hanuunsho, adeer!

[Fabregas]

M.M.I, the creation of the state of "Somalia", which gained independence from Italy via the union of the former British Somaliland, was clearly a colonial endeavour. The current borders of Ethiopia, Kenya, Somalia and Djibouti are largely based on the former British borders. Hence why succesive Somali governments rejected these borders. Furthermore, the muslims of the horn have always had economic, military, political and religious alliances. During the Zwahili states, which went all the way up to Muqidsho, the muslims had their own alliances. Moreover, during the time of Imam Ahmad Gurey; the muslims were assisting him all the way from: Tigray Jeberti Muslims, Yemenis, Other Somali Sultanates and so called "Ethiopian" Muslims( Oromo and Afar). Even there was Yemeni and Turkish Muslims. Today when our brothers help each other they are called "foreign extremists". These muslims have been purposely planted with the Zeal of nationalism/tribalism and some of them have been placed under majority dominated Christian led countries, in order to keep them in check.For example, the Muslims of Kenya and the Muslims of Ethiopia. We have forgotten the importance of Harar to the history of Islam in Africa. However, we need to first cocentrate on winning the hearts of the Somalia people, so that they love each other as Muslims first and foremost. But i am still confident that there is a big future for the Muslims of the horn. The Muslims of Eritrea will rise, as will the Muslims of Ethiopia, Kenya and Djibouti and Somalia. All we need to do forget these tribal and western ideologies and stop the downheartedness and fear of other Governments. People like Hailesallese and Zenawi remember the Tarikh of Imam Ahmad Gurey thus they will deal with us very harshly. But some of us will show love to them and think of them as friends. They remember the crying call of Islam and our pious brave ancestors. They are intent stopping the return of the way our ancestors with the help of America. But we have forgotten the legacy of our ancestors and resorted to chasing pathetic little dreams based on colonial endeavours and tribalism. The firt step is to write the history of our ancesores with our own hands and place the love of Islam and the defence of their land within our children!

 

quote:In Ethiopia the damage which [Ahmad] Gragn did has never been forgotten," wrote Paul B. Henze. "Every Christian highlander still hears tales of Gragn in his childhood. Haile Selassie referred to him in his memoirs. I have often had villagers in northern Ethiopia point out sites of towns, forts, churches and monasteries destroyed by Gragn as if these catastrophes had occurred only yesterday."[19]

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

M.M.I, the creation of the state of "Somalia", which gained independence from Italy via the union of the former British Somaliland, was clearly a colonial endeavour. The current borders of Ethiopia, Kenya, Somalia and Djibouti are largely based on the former British borders. Hence why succesive Somali governments rejected these borders. Furthermore, the muslims of the horn have always had economic, military, political and religious alliances. During the Zwahili states, which went all the way up to Muqidsho...

Horta you succumbed to beentii ugu weyneed aan ka hadlaaye. And I cannot believe you believed that myth, that crap shisheeyaha and enemies of Soomaalidda kusoo celceliyaan.

 

First of all, we need to know what 'nation' means and does. This word has two meanings: 'a politically organized body of people under a single government' [modern definition] or 'a federation of tribes (clans).'

 

Soomaalida belong the latter. We may not have had a modern, 'politically organized' state with a single head [and the closest we came to that was Ajuuuraan dynasty, which was headquartered in Qalaafe, present day Soomaali Galbeed, extending from wabiga Jubba to all the way Nugaal and Bari], but we always knew where our borders lay and lie.

 

We knew and know it now that it extended from Jabuuti in farthest notherneast peak to river right next to Gaarisa in southwestern tip and every area between. Geelaha Soomaaliyeed dhulkaas dhan ayee ka daaqi jireen, qof ama dad juuq iyo jaaq u dhihi jirtay ma jirin, save the usual clan and sub-clan skirmishes about green pastures and wells. These lands also had 'xeer' [which comes closest to governmental laws] which each agreed clan was expected to follow, including their marti that was new to the deegaan.

 

We may not have had a passport, immigration, etc, as most the people in that old world did not, but we definitely knew where Soomaalis lived and didn't. We did not venture dhulalka ka baxsan meelahaas, and if our forefathers ventures, they were ready for war.

 

Also, I think you believe the other big perpetrated myth, one of the biggest lies, about the suffix letter which ends in Soomaaliya ("Somalia") was a Talyaani invented one, and that it did not really predate before their arrival. Do you believe that? I hope you don't, and lest you do, here it is, the very word of "Somalia" in some sources in early and mid 1800s, loooong before Talyaaniga and any other gumeysi arrived at our lands.

 

Here, you can find long before the Talyaaniga and their gumeysidoon counterparts arrived dhulkeena in 1888 and early 1890s, the very suffix letter at the end of -- "a" that is -- "Somalia" existed. Soomaaliya waa erey Soomaalida sameystay, it also follows the language structure. The closest related people and language to Soomaalida and Afsoomaali also follow this formula: Oromadda call their future country 'Oromiya.'

 

And about Sawaaxili "states." First, there were no Sawaaxili "states," save Cumaani ones. Reer Cumaan were not Sawaaxili, though they ruled Sawaaxili people. Also Muqdisho was never a Sawaaxili town, unlike Kismaayo and Baraawe. Muqdisho -- and other coastal towns from Warsheekh of the north to deep south of Baraawe -- was a Banaadiri town; there is a difference, a huge one, between the two peoples.

 

Muqdisho was also a city of its own when the colonials arrived, unlike Nairobi, Kampala [uganda], Johannesburg [old capital of South Africa], Kigali [Rwanda], Bujumbura [burundi], Kinshasa [Zaire], Maputo [Mozambique], Harare [Zimbabwe], Johannesburg/Cape Town [south Africa], Freetown [sierra Leon], Abidjan [ivory Coast], Yaounde [Cameroon], Accra [Ghana], and practically almost every modern Afrikan capital and cities that was built from the ground by the colonials in less than hundred years and so.

 

Unlike them all, Muqdisho stood -- and still stands -- a thousand years and still counting.

[Ebyan]

What does it mean to be "Somali"? I mean, it's not like we share a common ancestor, so is a Somali anyone who speaks af-Soomaali? :confused:

 

Why should Somalis unite..based on what exactly? The fact that we share a language? Come on, religion is the best of unifiers and we could never (and still can't) get along, so what makes you think Somalis will ever unite? I think the people in DJ,NFD and Zone-5 are better off not joining Somalia and to my knowledge most of them don't want to join Somalia anyway.

[RedSea]

Blah Blah....it's better to do something than shed crodile tears on the web. Nagadaaya calool jileecan iy uuhinta iska keen keen ah.

 

'we somalis, we are lost I tell you, no more somalis' blah blah....I am tired of this nac nac everyday.

 

Get your freaking acts together, start with yourselves peeps.