Prez HSM is out of ideas and in need of a rescue boat

[Arafaat]

30 minutes ago, Illyria said:

How did you arrive at that conclusion? I wish I had the time to dispel that.

Think the Minister is quite clear in his speech that issue is about politics and political directions, in which he characterises the politics of Beesha dhexe as one driven by emotions and clannism. He gives various examples, such as in 1960 Ali Garaad and others suggesting to wait with unification, which would have been quite rational thing to do but Beesha dhexe refusing. And then later in 1991 when Beesha dhexe decided on separation or independence, SSC leaders being against it.  
 

The issue is politics, despiye what is sometimes stated or propagated in the charged and heated political debates reinforced by different clan narratives. People in Somaliland or Beesha dhexe’s cultural Somali ‘identity’ has not changed as a result of ‘Somalilands’ ambitions of becoming an independently recognised State.

People’s cultural norms, behaviours, beliefs, customs, and values remain Somali. They have not become or adopted overnight an ‘Ethiopian, Kiswahilli or Yemeni’ identity. And neither have they forged a distinct ‘Somalilandish’ cultural identity whose characteristics indicate a distinct separate language, religion, ethnic, traditions or cultural identity. 

The civil war might have impacted communal social relations, connections, political loyalties and narratives, but surely this goes for all Somali’s across the board and doesn’t indicate a change in people’s connection to their identity or a change  in the culture's core characteristics. 

And with regards to identifying or collating Somali identity with flags, state symbols, 1 July celebrations, or connections with the government in Mogadishu, think one has passed that assertion when different regions or groups started adopting their own flags and started severing ties with FGS over relations with other foreign countries. It’s politics and doesn’t say anything about the identity of people in different regions. 

[Illyria]

1 hour ago, Arafaat said:

Think the Minister is quite clear in his speech that issue is about politics and political directions, in which he characterises the politics of Beesha dhexe as one driven by emotions and clannism. He gives various examples, such as in 1960 Ali Garaad and others suggesting to wait with unification, which would have been quite rational thing to do but Beesha dhexe refusing. And then later in 1991 when Beesha dhexe decided on separation or independence, SSC leaders being against it.  
 

The issue is politics, despiye what is sometimes stated or propagated in the charged and heated political debates reinforced by different clan narratives. People in Somaliland or Beesha dhexe’s cultural Somali ‘identity’ has not changed as a result of ‘Somalilands’ ambitions of becoming an independently recognised State.

People’s cultural norms, behaviours, beliefs, customs, and values remain Somali. They have not become or adopted overnight an ‘Ethiopian, Kiswahilli or Yemeni’ identity. And neither have they forged a distinct ‘Somalilandish’ cultural identity whose characteristics indicate a distinct separate language, religion, ethnic, traditions or cultural identity. 

The civil war might have impacted communal social relations, connections, political loyalties and narratives, but surely this goes for all Somali’s across the board and doesn’t indicate a change in people’s connection to their identity or a change  in the culture's core characteristics.

He just regurgitated common narrative, said nothing intelligent, for the issue of SSC is not to be debated today, and shall await its right time, and platform.

Germane, and of interest to your earlier point, despite all else, national symbolisms remain relevant. More importantly, despite all of those flags and banners, have you come across any region, or community, which has denounced "Somalinimo", or claimed anything other than "Somalinimo"?

[Arafaat]

1 hour ago, Che -Guevara said:

All Somalis are emotional but beesh dhexe takes  the cake.

Grxjs were central to Dervish movement. Their history got buried in order to satisfy the emotional outburst of some of the elites namely SA who hijacked the Sland project.

 

Its more the politics that has lately come dominate Beesha. That there is no differentiation in thought between those leading and those being led, what is said in market places and what is said in political corridors by those in charge. Deducting any sort of rational and substantive knowledge from political debates, which is leading to extreme simplifications, polarisation and emotional communication and thought.

The current political debates are perhaps a good  example of where this is leading to. That people in the streets are debating the electoral laws, based on the same base simplified knowledge, political interest and emotionally charged standpoints, that those in leadership position have. It’s a receipt for political chaos and instability. 

 

 

 

 

[AhmedGuled]

9 hours ago, Arafaat said:

Think the Minister is quite clear in his speech that issue is about politics and political directions, in which he characterises the politics of Beesha dhexe as one driven by emotions and clannism. He gives various examples, such as in 1960 Ali Garaad and others suggesting to wait with unification, which would have been quite rational thing to do but Beesha dhexe refusing. And then later in 1991 when Beesha dhexe decided on separation or independence, SSC leaders being against it.  
 

The issue is politics, despiye what is sometimes stated or propagated in the charged and heated political debates reinforced by different clan narratives. People in Somaliland or Beesha dhexe’s cultural Somali ‘identity’ has not changed as a result of ‘Somalilands’ ambitions of becoming an independently recognised State.

People’s cultural norms, behaviours, beliefs, customs, and values remain Somali. They have not become or adopted overnight an ‘Ethiopian, Kiswahilli or Yemeni’ identity. And neither have they forged a distinct ‘Somalilandish’ cultural identity whose characteristics indicate a distinct separate language, religion, ethnic, traditions or cultural identity. 

The civil war might have impacted communal social relations, connections, political loyalties and narratives, but surely this goes for all Somali’s across the board and doesn’t indicate a change in people’s connection to their identity or a change  in the culture's core characteristics. 

And with regards to identifying or collating Somali identity with flags, state symbols, 1 July celebrations, or connections with the government in Mogadishu, think one has passed that assertion when different regions or groups started adopting their own flags and started severing ties with FGS over relations with other foreign countries. It’s politics and doesn’t say anything about the identity of people in different regions. 

That's is not the point and you know it. The Arabs all speak Arabic and have very similar cultural practices and most of them are Muslims. This does not mean they should all live in the same country.

Somaliland is not an emotional project. It is a return to an original state we were in before July 1st 1960. Somaliland united with the Italia Somalia in a hope to make Somalinimo work out and build something great together. However, things didn't work out that way and Somaliland got burnt real bad by the experience. I do agree that Somalilanders should have waited and asked for concessions before uniting with Somalia. We can all speak after the fact, do not blame us for wanting to unite and then finding out this mess cannot work.

As Egaal stated on many occasion " The Koonfur are a people you cannot divide faily with nor can they make a deal and stick to it." 

[Arafaat]

5 hours ago, AhmedGuled said:

Somaliland is not an emotional project. 

It’s political leaders and opinion makers are emotional, and that is concerning.

[Arafaat]

22 hours ago, Illyria said:

He just regurgitated common narrative, said nothing intelligent, for the issue of SSC is not to be debated today, and shall await its right time, and platform.

Germane, and of interest to your earlier point, despite all else, national symbolisms remain relevant. More importantly, despite all of those flags and banners, have you come across any region, or community, which has denounced "Somalinimo", or claimed anything other than "Somalinimo"?

Wasn’t it Jaamac Kadiye’s poem ‘Somali baan ahay’ that truly captured the essence of the Somali identity, what ‘Somalinimo’ or to be a Somali means? 

And where in his poem did Jaamac mention the Federal Government of Mogadishu, the Leopards on the State emblem, or the other colourful adopted flags, national days and other state symbols, all of which have been adopted in the last decades or so. 

FYI, by no means am I deducting the political convictions or struggles of SSC folks to remain with Somalia, prevent Somalia from breaking apart, or to receive full backing from Mogadishu for the cause. And neither am I denying that certain individuals are constantly attempting to further divaricate, divid and alienate Somaliland people from other Somali’s (read Xaaji Xunjuf and co), but nevertheless also this is political in nature and intentionally done for political purposes. And as they say in war and politics all is fair game, including to hyperbolize, belittle and factionalise opponents/supporters, but none of this says much on the real essence of the Somali identity.

 

 

[Illyria]

2 hours ago, Arafaat said:

And where in his poem did Jaamac mention the Federal Government of Mogadishu, the Leopards on the State emblem, or the other colourful adopted flags, national days and other state symbols, all of which have been adopted in the last decades or so.

As the old saying goes "Bahal qeedhiin ma daayo, ninna caadadi ma baajo".  The same old Arafat after so many years still failing at the basics even  in his old age.

Adeer Kadiye trully captures the essence of Somalinimo, for [it] transcends symbolisms, and systems of governance, be it fiefdom, monarchical, oligarchy, or Federalism, and one must not mistake [its] many banners, and flags for its lack of.  As people, how we choose to govern ourselves bears no relevance as to our core being, but then again, you already know that, except you have been humming faulty hymns with dimwits, lacking wisdom, and therefore shall be excused for a lapse of sound judgement.

2 hours ago, Arafaat said:

FYI, by no means am I deducting the political convictions or struggles of SSC folks to remain with Somalia, prevent Somalia from breaking apart, or to receive full backing from Mogadishu for the cause.

I need no convincing of that, nor does it matter in the least as to what others do think of the SSC movement, for there is no point in one wishing to tow a hitch on a ship no longer at berth.

There is more that which unites Somalis than not, so let us focus upon that, join our contemporaries in moving forward, and leave the minutiae and the babble behind.

[Illyria]

15 hours ago, AhmedGuled said:

Somaliland is not an emotional project. It is a return to an original state we were in before July 1st 1960. 

What do you think were you grandfathers doing pre 1895 well before the "Buuryaqab gaalo" ever set a foot on  Somali soil, and inked your toenails to forever embrace colonial legacy? These people are in desperate need of re-acculturation, complete re-washing of the "gaalo" brainwashing, and rehabilitation. Why do you like subjugation, and serfdom so much?

[Arafaat]

13 minutes ago, Illyria said:

As the old saying goes "Bahal qeedhiin ma daayo, ninna caadadi ma baajo".  The same old Arafat after so many years still failing at the basics even  in his old age.

Adeer Kadiye trully captures the essence of Somalinimo, for [it] transcends symbolisms, and systems of governance, be it fiefdom, monarchical, oligarchy, or Federalism, and one must be mistake its many banners, and flags for its lack of.  As people, how we choose to govern ourselves bears no relevance to our core being, but then again, you already know that, except you have been humming faulty hymns with dimwits, lacking wisdom, and therefore shall be excused for a lapse of sound judgement.

I need no convincing of that, nor does it matter in the least as to what others do think of the SSC movement, for there is no point in one wishing to tow a hitch on a ship no longer at berth.

There is more that which unites Somalis than not, so let us focus upon that, join our contemporaries in moving forward, and leave the minutiae and the babble behind.

Have you just repeated and admitted correctness of my points, proven your own wrong assertions while still feeling it necessary to degrade and patronise me. Typical Somali, proud, stubborn and clannish. I rest my case.  

[Illyria]

4 minutes ago, Arafaat said:

Have you just repeated and admitted correctness of my points, admitted your own wrong assertions while still feeling it necessary to degrade and patronise me. Typical Somali, proud, stubborn and clannish.  

Re-read my dead boy, try again, and this time pause before typing away!

By the way, stick to, and with the topic of discussion, and if you resort to labelling me, I shall leave you to it.

[Illyria]

7 minutes ago, Arafaat said:

while still feeling it necessary to degrade and patronise me.

I was not patronising you, but trying to redirect your focus on this point:

"Somalinimo, for [it] transcends symbolisms, and systems of governance, be it fiefdom, monarchical, oligarchy, or Federalism, and one must not mistake [its] many banners, and flags for its lack of.  As people, how we choose to govern ourselves bears no relevance as to our core being".

[Arafaat]

19 minutes ago, Illyria said:

Adeer Kadiye trully captures the essence of Somalinimo, for [it] transcends symbolisms, and systems of governance, be it fiefdom, monarchical, oligarchy, or Federalism, and one must not mistake [its] many banners, and flags for its lack of.  As people, how we choose to govern ourselves bears no relevance as to our core being

Saved in case you decide to edit. 

[maakhiri1]

Arafat,  I didn't know earlier but found out those who were advocating for secessionism, realized a long time ago, to killing SOMALINIMO DNA in the secessionist enclave, it was a difficult mission but with some success. they realized by hating other Somalis, and everything the dictator did , blame on all SOMALIS, they may succeed

Some even hate, noble concepts, that failed, like SOMALIWEYN, greater SOMALIA.

Buusa Biihi and likes hate, how Somalis helped WAHEEN etc,  or they hide and do not advertise, good gestures from the Somali government, etc Basically hiding the truth from people

it is definitely a cult system, that is meant to benefit very few people, you can see from those here too

 

 

[Illyria]

2 minutes ago, Arafaat said:

Saved in case you decide to edit. 

 I actually re-posted it for your perusal.

[Arafaat]

20 minutes ago, maakhiri1 said:

Arafat,  I didn't know earlier but found out those who were advocating for secessionism, realized a long time ago, to killing SOMALINIMO DNA in the secessionist enclave, it was a difficult mission but with some success. they realized by hating other Somalis, and everything the dictator did , blame on all SOMALIS, they may succeed

Some even hate, noble concepts, that failed, like SOMALIWEYN, greater SOMALIA.

Buusa Biihi and likes hate, how Somalis helped WAHEEN etc,  or they hide and do not advertise, good gestures from the Somali government, etc Basically hiding the truth from people

it is definitely a cult system, that is meant to benefit very few people, you can see from those here too

 

 

The majority of people are sincere about Somalilands state aspirations, but it’s becoming clear that divide and rule tactics are used to manipulate the masses. Somalia’s regime and the atrocities it committed does not absolve anyone for denying people their political, economic and individual rights and dignities.