Old_Observer

Turkish do things their way. No Coronavirus restriction for 18-20 Yearolds. Dumb or Brilliant?

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Coronavirus
Turkey exempts young workers from pandemic confinement order
"Public and private sector employees as well as seasonal agricultural workers aged between 18 and 20 will be exempted"

1. The 18-20 year olds could be carriers and make the whole country sick, but not get sick themselves. That would be dumb.

2. The 18-20 could keep the country functioning and with some smart protective masks, medications, decontaminations, disinfectants keep safe. Most Brilliant.

We will see with in a month. But then what is to lose, people will get sick anuyway, but at least the 18-20s can deliver food, medicine, basic needs..etc.

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Oodweyne   
3 hours ago, Old_Observer said:

We will see with in a month. But then what is to lose, people will get sick anuyway, but at least the 18-20s can deliver food, medicine, basic needs..etc.

Suldan Erdogan of Anatolia is hoping that "herd Immunity" will be what will safe his folks and therefore his brutal calculation is that those young people will make it through if they catch this virus. Whilst on the other hand, the old will simply have to get to whatever deadly fate that is likely to be coming their way.

It's nothing less than a form of "modern Darwinian selection" being imposed by the government on to the population in the hope that they young will weather the storm of this virus and will eventually develop antibodies large enough to have a "herd immunity" sort of thing when the storm passes on, even if in the mean-time the virus will take a really and painful toll on the weak and the aged ones in Turkey.

It's the stuff in which wannabe-dictator of Brazil is also banking on it. Which is why both States of Turkey and Brazil, there is no large-scale testing going on publicly as well as tracing-back the contours of those who are positive in this COVID-19 in-terms of who they did come contact with while they were carrying this virus.

Hence, you can say that it's like, in every sense of it, a large-scale "social experiment" that is now taking place across the world and in many countries, where each country is doing different things.

Some are ruthless enough and are waiting to ride it out this virus to the other side without doing anything to "flatten the curve" of this infection with large scale health and social intervention in the mean-time. Some are the like the Chinese, who are doing a government's lockdown on a massive scale of every virus hot-spots. And others, like the Yanks, are losing the plot altogether and they do not know how they should approach it.

So soon we will see which "national experiment" was the best method in dealing with this virus. And which in turn was nothing less than a "criminal neglect" on the part of the government of that country. 

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galbeedi   

Actually Turkey is doing better than I thought. They shut down major provinces like Istanbul where most of the cases are. 

With over 24,000 cases, their death rate is less than 2%  which among the lowest. in the world.  As of yesterday they had 501 death per 24,000. That is good news.

When Italy had 25,00 cases their death toll was over 4,000. Another good sign in Turkey is their recovery rate is doubling every day. Turkey is similar to Canada.

The virus is manifesting differently in many parts of the world. In Germany, with almost 90,000 cases their death tall is just over a thousand. THeir rate just over 1% of fatalities. In Spain they 130,000 cases and fatalities of 12,600 which is 9%.

In Canada our fatality rates are just little over 1%. So far We are managing really well. Quebec which is close to New York and have extensive flight connections with FRance and Italy is the worst place in Canada with 60% of the cases.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Oodweyne said:

Suldan Erdogan of Anatolia is hoping that "herd Immunity" will be what will safe his folks and therefore his brutal calculation is that those young people will make it through if they catch this virus. Whilst on the other hand, the old will simply have to get to whatever deadly fate that is likely to be coming their way.

It's nothing less than a form of "modern Darwinian selection" being imposed by the government on to the population in the hope that they young will weather the storm of this virus and will eventually develop antibodies large enough to have a "herd immunity" sort of thing when the storm passes on, even if in the mean-time the virus will take a really and painful toll on the weak and the aged ones in Turkey.

It's the stuff in which wannabe-dictator of Brazil is also banking on it. Which is why both States of Turkey and Brazil, there is no large-scale testing going on publicly as well as tracing-back the contours of those who are positive in this COVID-19 in-terms of who they did come contact with while they were carrying this virus.

Hence, you can say that it's like, in every sense of it, a large-scale "social experiment" that is now taking place across the world and in many countries, where each country is doing different things.

Some are ruthless enough and are waiting to ride it out this virus to the other side without doing anything to "flatten the curve" of this infection with large scale health and social intervention in the mean-time. Some are the like the Chinese, who are doing a government's lockdown on a massive scale of every virus hot-spots. And others, like the Yanks, are losing the plot altogether and they do not know how they should approach it.

So soon we will see which "national experiment" was the best method in dealing with this virus. And which in turn was nothing less than a "criminal neglect" on the part of the government of that country. 

Belarus, Mexico and Brazil are officially and formally on the herd immunity plan. UK is the coward traitor for this group.

Turkish are upper class. Quietly have been copying just from anywhere in the world techniques to avoid shutdown, while being totally proactive.

Turkish cannot brag about any Coronavirus related thing, since Tourism is big deal. A lot of food export as well. But they are among the most effective countries in their quiet way. They also help a number of countries, including China (in the beginning). They have their test system, some Pharma products, good chemical industry for anti infections..etc. War in Syria also seem to be under control.

 

 

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galbeedi   
2 minutes ago, Old_Observer said:

They also help a number of countries, including China (in the beginning)

They even sent medical equipment to Italy and Spain.

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5 minutes ago, galbeedi said:

They even sent medical equipment to Italy and Spain.

 

Exactly.

The UK does a lot of weapons sales, yet never brag about it since their main business is financial services.

Turkish can brag about weapons sales, but never about health and food issues, since they are big in Food, Tourism, Garment/clothing..which kind of makes them keep Corona virus to a minimum news.

They are working very closely with all Euro Asian countries. Since there was some suspicion this virus maybe Ethnic, in the beginning. All countries that have Turkic population had joint centers and sharing centers.

 

 

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cadnaan1   

In Sweden there is no lockdown even though they have highest virus cases in Scandinavian countries.

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Oodweyne   
On 4/6/2020 at 2:35 AM, galbeedi said:

With over 24,000 cases, their death rate is less than 2%  which among the lowest. in the world.  As of yesterday they had 501 death per 24,000. That is good news.

When Italy had 25,00 cases their death toll was over 4,000. Another good sign in Turkey is their recovery rate is doubling every day. Turkey is similar to Canada.

Don't believe a word of it. The Turks, just like Chinese, just like Russians, are deliberately under-counting the numbers. Both in-terms of the level of the virus infection and the fatalities from it so far.

They made a "political choice" (along with Brazil) that larger exposure of how this virus had spread will be a dearth-knell to their fragile economy. And they have decided to under-count the numbers, firstly, and then do a minimum of nation-wide testing, especially the rural county-sides. Although as you said it they have locked-down certain areas of country in Turkey, such as Istanbul.

But the telling point which will tell you which country is going out of its way to deal with this issue or not is when you see a country talking about "re-opening" of its economy without doing a massive-scale testing, comprehensive tracing, and then re-testing of the areas that were already given the "all-clear-sign" in the previous round of the testing.

Once you see nation talking like that, then you will know that they want to do what is known as the "herd immunity" route, even if they don't want to broadcast it publicly. And now Mr Erdogan is talking about allowing 18 - 20s years old Turks back into the economy. And that effectively means he is on the "herd immunity" bandwagon, whereby he wants to "minimise" the damage economically this will be to his country (which is understandable).

And that is why his government (just like the Chinese and like the Russians) are going out of their way to under-count the numbers they report to the WHO on a daily basis, so that they can say in a "2 or 3 weeks" time from now on that we have "conquered" the virus and now we are going back to work. And the Chinese are already doing this kind of silly talk in places like Wuhan and in Hubei province of China.

It's all a political scam that will be deadly to the folks of those nations when this virus gets going again in its second wave in this autumn as all are forecasting it.

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Oodweyne   

This is for our friend, Mr Old_Observer.

Late in the Game, Russia Steps Up to Covid-19

By Maxim Trudolyubov

image.thumb.png.02c84c81a0f8ac2783697d2509c19ced.png

For once, Vladimir Putin followed in the path of his American counterpart, President Trump, and with similar results — a greater risk of catastrophe that might have been avoided.

VILNIUS, Lithuania — “I was stuck at home for too long, had to go for a ride,” a friend from Moscow shouted into his phone several weeks ago, trying to outyell the noise around him on a trip, it turned out, to St. Petersburg. “We’re going to hit a bar here and get some drinks, will call.” He then disappeared from the video chat, in which I could see people behind him, walking along a familiar St. Petersburg street.

I get very different dispatches from friends who live in a small town in Italy. There they stay home and tell me about relentless police raids against wanderers in the streets. A friend in Berlin says it is OK to go out, but not to gather in groups of more than two.

The coronavirus pandemic caught me in Vilnius, Lithuania, a city where the streets are deserted, the bars are dead, and all flights have stopped. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine seeing in a European democracy a police-enforced order that limits personal freedoms contrasted by scenes of boisterous social merriment in Moscow, my normally order-obsessed and state-controlled hometown.

As I write this, Russia is catching up. Still, the inversion between East and West of attitudes toward individual freedoms during the Covid-19 disaster is startling. There is certainly no shortage of police in Moscow. But the Kremlin has been late in introducing consistent quarantine measures, because it is undecided. It evokes the confusion now engulfing the United States, where President Trump’s late and muddled start has contributed to disaster. President Vladimir Putin did no planning for a coronavirus coming in from abroad. Now it has interfered with his politics — which in his view should always take precedence over everything else. As a result, his country will face a far more destructive outcome than might have been avoided had he started earlier.

On March 28, Russians were shown pictures of Mr. Putin wearing a bright yellow hazmat suit and a breathing mask. He visited a hospital housing Covid-19 patients and inspected a construction site for an emergency hospital near Moscow. Mr. Putin was transitioning from an it’s-a-foreign-threat stage to accepting the reality of an infectious threat to the population.

But like President Trump, Mr. Putin seems uncomfortable with recognizing the virus’s biological, nonpolitical nature — a “Chinese” virus, they call it, as if that explains its ferocity. The default mode of laying blame, in which both leaders’ politics and popularity are paramount, is apparently hard to reconcile with a reality that can’t be manipulated.

In times of natural calamities, hard truths suddenly take command. And if you live in a world where everything and everyone is either for you or against you, the whole virus thing sounds politically suspicious. That is why, for the past several weeks, some of Russia’s state-run media and security agencies have been preoccupied with silencing those who spread “panic among the population.” And Russia’s tabloid-style press has been filled with conspiracy theories that the virus is a biological weapon or a hoax. Much of that has been translated abroad through Russia’s influence media, an internal European Union report said recently.

The Kremlin has seemed confused. On March 25, in a surprise address to the nation, President Putin postponed indefinitely an April 22 vote about constitutional amendments that include allowing him to run for president again in 2024. (He had already signed the changes into law, making the vote meaningless.) He then declared last week a nationwide paid holiday, but his spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, later said it was not meant to be a holiday for people working remotely. On Thursday, Mr. Putin extended the holiday until the end of April, effectively placing the burden of supporting a failing economy squarely on the shoulders of businesses and other employers.

The paid-holiday move puzzles many. With time, it became clear that announcing a holiday was a typical Putin ruse, deployed to prevent him from being associated with “negative” decisions. He refuses to use words like “emergency,” “restrictions” or “quarantines.”

In response, Moscow’s mayor, Sergey Sobyanin, has taken the lead in quarantine policymaking. He has issued additional “regional” restrictions on businesses and movements around town. He has imposed a self-isolation regime and is seeking an app that would allow the mayor’s office to police the compliance. Now, with no coherent nationwide policy announced, other regional and municipal authorities have been making their own decisions, which is unusual, considering Russia’s normally hypercentralized decision-making process.

After Mr. Putin’s address to the nation, the number of Covid-19 cases started to grow. On Sunday, Russia confirmed more than 670 new coronavirus infections in a day, bringing the official total to almost 5,400.

But most people in Russia are unsure what to believe: 24 percent of those polled by the nongovernmental Levada Center say they distrust official information on the pandemic; 35 percent say they trust it only “in part.”

That leaves many Russians thinking the authorities have been whitewashing the threat by preventing doctors from diagnosing Covid-19. Indeed, in January, Russia registered a spike in pneumonia of 37 percent more cases than a year ago, according to Russia’s statistical agency. Many think that most of the pneumonias could in fact have been Covid-19 cases. In a country of 144 million people, with a long border with China and, until recently, busy connections with Italy, the official tally seems incredibly low.

The true scale of the virus spread in Russia is unknowable for all those reasons, and more. Russia’s tests for the coronavirus are much less sensitive than those used in other countries. As of March 21, Russia had carried out 133,100 tests with 306 returning positive. At 0.21 percent, the ratio of tests to positive cases is startlingly low, when compared with most other countries’ results.

Amid the current confusion, a grim alternative explanation for Russia’s lax response has been circulating: that it is a deliberate policy of letting the virus spread to as many people as possible, in expectation that they will become immune to the new pathogen, assuming they live. That’s a rumor, of course, too gruesome to discuss publicly because of the obvious human cost such a policy would risk.

So what can Russia do? China and Germany provide opposing alternatives. China’s leaders, after hesitation, unleashed the full power of an authoritarian state against the outbreak. It worked, but the aggressive quarantine efforts and extensive use of human-tracking technologies will attract criticism for a long time.

Germany chose political openness. Early on, Chancellor Angela Merkel laid out facts and statistics charting Germany’s likeliest prospects. “The consensus among experts,” she said, “is that 60 to 70 percent of the population will be infected as long as this remains the situation.” So far, Germany’s response has been relatively successful, with a Covid-19 fatality rate far lower than in many other countries.

The Kremlin’s reaction has been much less aggressive than in China and much less open than in most European countries. It may be falling behind the disease’s progress because of Mr. Putin’s political goals. Or it may be purposefully letting the virus run its course. In both cases, we are dealing with a political experiment with human subjects, with the consequences unknown.

**********

Source:- 

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

For once, Vladimir Putin followed in the path of his American counterpart, President Trump, and with similar results — a greater risk of catastrophe that might have been avoided.

 

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galbeedi   
On 4/6/2020 at 9:53 AM, Oodweyne said:

Once you see nation talking like that, then you will know that they want to do what is known as the "herd immunity" route, even if they don't want to broadcast it publicly. And now Mr Erdogan is talking about allowing 18 - 20s years old Turks back into the economy. And that effectively means he is on the "herd immunity" bandwagon, whereby he wants to "minimise" the damage economically this will be to his country (which is understandable).

Those of us who flow Turkey understand the institutional capacity of that nation. While Turkey doesn't have per capita income of most  European countries, and mostly considered a developing economy, it is one of the few nations who are well prepared to stand alone in terms of its place among the nations. According to some analysts, Turkey had prepared  " a world reality: defense, localization, systemic transformation (the presidential system), social state, relief organizations, geopolitical plans, strengthening the central power domain, returning to its own claims (to its historical legacy), equipment preparation in a way that it will not need supra-national structures".

Not only they invested in national infrastructure like airports, highways and railways , but also health care and human development.

Their healthcare system and infrastructure is second to none. Here is one new one in Ankara.

 

They even expanding around the globe. Here one Qatar:

Here one in Mogadishu helping our people.

 

 

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galbeedi   

There is a calculated campaign against Turkey. While they were sending medical equipment to Italy and Spain , there were reports about Turkey blocking equipment intended for Italy. 

If they were hiding numbers,  why are they reporting thousands of new cases  everyday?. in two weeks , they reported close to 25,000 which is huge. At the same time, they didn't peak yet.

 

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Oodweyne   

^^^^

We shall see. Although I do on the whole understand that you have a soft spot for Turkey (as a country) and her strongman's fellow by the name of Sultan Erdogan, but still, I must say that no one is out to get her or even want to besmirch her name, let alone staging some sort of a "calculated campaign" against her, as you have suggested it in here.

Moreover, her healthcare is at a good standard in terms of the comparison with the rest of the developing nations. That is granted. But the point I am belaboring in here is that this virus has not yet peaked and you are already hearing from the likes of Erdogan saying that he really wishes to allow the youngsters of his country to returned back to work.

And that, in turn, tells me that he is on the same "brazen political boat" as Russia as well as with Brazil with their forlorn hope of getting a "herd immunity" along the way for their countries, as the "method" of getting this thing under control, or as the method of fighting this virus, nationally in the long-term basis. 

And as for the issue of the numbers is a concern, they are (as I told you already) under-playing or under-counting the numbers (for they would have otherwise a similar number of the Iranians by now). And they are doing that in order to show to the WHO that their "infectious curve" is on a downward trajectory or it's heading that way, or at least it's cresting downwards, given that they are duly required by international law to report to this outfit in most days.

Hence, their intention is to have the possibility of having the chance to put forth their argument in a 2 to 3 weeks time, which will be an argument that will say: "We have brought the virus into a manageable terrain - or we have flattened the curve - whereby from now on we can handle the "lethality" of this virus without doing any drastic action such as the notion of keeping the economy locked-down, as other countries are forced to do so".

So, let's pick up this discussion in 2 to 3 weeks time, shall we? For that time you will see the veracity of my argument in which I am putting forward in here. Deal? 

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Haatu   
11 hours ago, galbeedi said:

Here one in Mogadishu helping our people.

 

 

I cannot overstate the importance of this hospital. More important than physical infrastructure in healthcare is the quality and training of medical professionals. I'm sure we all have experiences of our relatives back home or even ourselves receiving sub-optimal care because the doctors simply lacked training. This hospital here is training hundreds of Somali doctors every year under expert consultants. This isn't the kind of training you can get from a seminar. It requires years of working under specialists as their apprentice basically learning the skill slowly from them. In the UK it takes young surgeons 10 years of training under experts to become consultant surgeons. And at at this hospital we have some Somali doctors being trained in every speciality, even minute and rare ones. 

And the best thing is that it acts as a catalyst. Once you train one specialist, he/she can train hundreds of other specialists over their career. I can envisage the number of expert Somali specialists multiplying over the next few years. And we know how business minded Somalis are. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing urology clinics or even dermatology clinics sprouting up in every major town headed by a specialist (all we currently have are general doctors opening poor quality clinics or quacks at the worst). All that is required is to hold regular annual conferences locally or attend international ones abroad to keep their skills up to date. We might even end up with an even more educated workforce than some African countries. 

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Oodweyne   

^^^ Haatu,

Saaxiib, ma markii geel loo heesay ayaad dameerahaagii u buraanburtey, miyaa? 😁 In other words, no one is in here is arguing against how Somalis should be grateful for Turkey in terms of what she in turn, has done for Somalia. That is a given considering how much Turkey had invested in her, and in terms of the actual things that the West would never do for Somalia other than giving them a lip-service, but Turkey have done it, nevertheless.

All of that is given, and no one is arguing against it. But the point of contention here is about how Turkey is dealing with this COVID-19 pandemic and how Mr. Erdogan is out to "minimize" the severity of it. And that is where the disagreement that I have with Mr Galbeedi stems from. Not so much what Turkey may or may not have done for Somalia or could do for her in the future. It's apples and oranges sort of basic argument, really.   

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Oodweyne   

Erdogan under pressure as coronavirus cases spike in Turkey

ISTANBUL (AFP) - President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stepped up measures to stem rapidly growing coronavirus cases in Turkey but his refusal to impose a full lockdown to keep the economy afloat is drawing criticism.

With gatherings banned, restrictions on intercity trips, and the obligation to wear masks almost anywhere, Erdogan has imposed a series of tough measures but thus far resisted calls for a complete confinement.

Parliament began on Tuesday debating a government-sponsored bill to release up to a third of detainees in the country's overcrowded prisons as a safety measure against the coronavirus outbreak.

With 34,109 cases and 725 deaths, according to official figures published on Tuesday, Turkey is the ninth country in the world most affected by the COVID-19 pandemic.

What's alarming is the fast spread of the disease in Turkey, which reported its first official case on March 11. The number of cases is doubling in every few days: From 7,400 on March 28, it reached 15,000 on April 1 and exceeded 30,000 on Monday, according to official figures.

'Limits'

The government has very quickly taken nationwide measures from shutting schools and cultural spaces to suspending flights with the countries hit by the virus.

They have been gradually reinforced with a confinement order for people aged over 65 and under 20 and quarantine of dozens of towns and villages.

On Tuesday, Health Minister Fahrettin Koca said in a reassuring tone that the occupancy rate in the intensive care units was only around 60 percent.

But as the number of victims soars, there have been increasing calls on the government to impose a complete confinement like in Italy or France.

"Everyone absolutely has to stay at home, it must be made compulsory," a doctor who treats infected patients under intensive care at an Istanbul hospital told AFP on condition of anonymity.

"We are receiving more and more patients every day. We will soon reach the limits of our capacity."

The opposition parties, the country's main medical association TTB and unions have also urged the government to take tougher measures to deter people from going out.

"It will be impossible to control this pandemic if millions of people ... go out to work," the president of the Turkish Doctors' Union (TTB), Sinan Adiyaman, told the Turkish media this week.

In an interview with AFP last week, the opposition mayor of Istanbul called for a confinement in the country's economic capital where more than half of the COVID-19 cases have been recorded.

"Even if 15 percent of the population goes out, we quickly reach two million people ... This has the potential to increase the threat."

'Time lost'


Erdogan has so far urged Turks to place themselves in "voluntary quarantine" rather than declare a compulsory order for them to stay home, in an attempt not to stop an already fragile economy which has been in a recovery state after years of crises.

Last week, he said: "Turkey is obliged to continue producing and keep the wheels (of the economy) turning under any circumstances."

Before any hardening of the measures, many Turks have already taken their own precautions. Most of Istanbul's usually busy arteries including the pedestrian Istiklal Street are almost deserted.

Many Turks no longer set foot outside - some of them have returned to the age-old tradition of lowering baskets through their window for their groceries, while some others rely on very efficient delivery services.

The doctor at Istanbul hospital hailed residents' common sense and "good measures" taken by the government which has ramped up tests to reach over 200,000 thus far.

But he warned: "If the number of cases keeps increasing at this pace, the result will be the same as elsewhere: many losses of lives. We have already lost a lot of time."

*********

Source:- 

WWW.HIIRAAN.COM

ISTANBUL (AFP) - President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stepped up measures to stem rapidly growing coronavirus cases in Turkey but his refusal to impose a full lockdown to keep the economy afloat is...

 

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