Originally posted by Zenobia: ThePoint! All I am saying is that the people who have 'invaded' and are now 'occupying' LA are themselves natives and residents of LA. Whatever their ulterior motivations, they are championing the SL cause. Is that a lie? No - that's not a lie. But those folks wouldn't be there without Somaliland funds and incitement. Moreover, those championing the SL cause as you put it are hired and bought thugs and agents. Secondly - the fundamental point remains that the vast majority of Rer Sool is not interested in Somaliland or secession. Are you arguing any of these points? If not then we have nothing to argue about. And clearly the Somaliland action is wrong in every respect given the above. Originally posted by Zenobia: All I am saying, is that their division is very significant to this conflict. Read above. That's exactly and precisely wrong. Again - these are a small number of bought thugs - what gives them wieght as opposed to the rest of the community who are against them? What is 'very significant' to this conflict is the money, materials, support and encouragement coming from Somaliland. In the absence of that - there would be no conflict given the political mindset of Rer Sool.

Today I spent too much time on SOL - and I can't say that I leave with all my brain cells intact.

^Whatever Mr. bootlicker.

^I'm no oday with a Timmy calool like you.

^Turn his cell phone off kulaha - I like that one. Yeah I didn't give you the shaft - my cell was truned off.

^Only one word is spelled wrong. Try again adeer - I believe in you despite your penchant for the jalle.

^War ma weliye baa thread-kaan wadata? :rolleyes:

^LOL - that certainly is a novel way of putting it. Somalis and shid go together like a horse and carriage. I'm surprised you have remained immaculate

^No you're simply wrong. Where occupations are about ensuring a 'friendly' regime there is no such argument. Where the occupation is about owning, settling and exploiting land such as in Tibet or the Palestinian territories or indeed in Africa during colonialism - your argument holds. At any rate - is that really a compelling reason for you - when all of us know that sooner or later Ethiopia will have to leave? At any rate can you understand my arguments above?

DP

Originally posted by Zenobia: As for LA, if reer LA were united and consistent in their stance against SL, Riyaale would have no reason to make a move as bold as this, if he had absolutely no support in LA, this matter would have been wrapped up as quickly as the Dhahar incident last year and you and I woudn't be having this discussion. This has already been stated by SOLers from LA themselves, why you keep over looking it, is beyond me. You can't be serious. I refuse to believe that you are serious here. What makes you believe that Rer Sool are not united or have not been consistent with regard to Somaliland? Rer Sool have repeatedly and consistently rejected Somaliland and its bedrock principle of secession. Do you deny this? Are you saying it is not the case? Riyaale's boldness has nothing to do with a desire by any real segment of the population of Sool for him and his thugs. It has to do with a perception of Puntland weakness - proven correctly as it turns out. And the only reason Riyaale's militia and his paid thugs are still there and not wrapped up like Dhahar is the weakness and disorganization of those against them not because the residents of Las Anod approve of the staus quo. I can't believe how many times I keep making these same arguments. :eek:

^Actually History Channel gets to the point much more quickly

Hmmm - I've heard about the meetings. His whole family lives in Ottawa. Apparently - he wants to go back to Mog by year-end - a brave man if nothing else. PS - He said the old man is hiring - all one has to do is present oneself in Mogadishu. I bet some folks would be interested

Yes Sir, Professor Ngonge, Sir! FTS - the point Ngonge has been trying to make is this: Given that the TFG/Asmara Alliance have in their ranks criminals/shady characters, both have innocent blood on their hands, both display little statemanship and ability to comprise, have precious few technocrats and other skilled individuals to direct the workings of a government - Why the emphatic support for the AA? Shouldn't it be more or less a wash given the above realities? What is the compelling reason or reasons? If your answer is the occupation, the occupation - then your argument has glaring holes. The calls and actions of the AA and related groups have led and only lead to the entrenchment and the prolonging of the occupation. Does anybody seriously believe that without the security issue(or excuse?) that the Ethiopians can remain long in Somalia? Ethiopia's occupation is not a land grab like in Palestine but is about, ostensibly, its security. Yet those whose self-proclaimed banner states that they will re-liberate Somalia only further enable Ethiopia's occupation. It seems to me a fundamental contradiction and a rather odd basis for support.

Originally posted by NGONGE: Your explanation for adding Europe to the argument still makes no sense. I am a Somali talking about my country. It is a fact that the people of my country are divided into clans. It is a fact that there is an animosity between these clans. It is a fact that the whole war is/was as a result of these clannish differences. So what are you telling me here? That clans exist in other parts of the world? And? What’s has that got to do with Somalia burning itself as a result of clannish fervour? Pardon my interruption. I think the point Bilaal is making here is that we, the Somali public at large, are not (quite) the savages you paint us to be. Clan and clan differences are not the determinative factor in the Somali conflict. It is but a tool. One's clan and clan connections became the only means to gain resources, position, respect and favour starting soon after independance and accelerating in the Barre administration. And not surprisingly this sharply increased clan passions and the more so when aided by a few wily self-serving demagogues. This doesn't excuse the Somali public from succumbing to this manipulation but it doesn't quite rise to the level of sweeping condemnation. In the future, a decoupling of political power from a blanket ability to bestow resources should help to temper the clan passions unleashed. Bilaal - I'd love to hear a concise answer on what Ngonge has been banging the drum about and which is in danger of getting lost in the back and forth. 1- What factual reasons do you have for taking a firm stand in favour of the Asmara Group taking into account the totality of their actions and statements? 2- What concrete reasons give you hope that the Asmara Group itself will, in the event it gains power in Somalia, send the country on the hopeful path you dream of? Is it due to the character, calibre, knowledge, experience, technical know-how, statesmanship of the individuals involved - what exactly is it? And North was bemoaning the 'quality' of the Politics section!

What an interesting gem of a debate. Do continue lads.

I don't know a single one of the acts but hees on.

Originally posted by -Lily-: It's comical if not tragic to see so many Farax’s on this forum advocating the ‘you will get old and useless at the height of your life, 30+ if you don’t settle for the 1st Farax that comes round. Now! Immediately!’ mentality. It all reeks of insecurity. We must be the only nation in the world to complain of an 'epidemic' of educated, successful and single women. Someone please find us a cure fast! I don't know about 'so many Farax's' but then I wasn't counting. I think the bottom line is that 30+ means you are less than 10 years from 40 - which is really the cutoff for having children and a home life. You're looking at diminishing opportunities for marriage let alone finding the right partner at least in our culture. It's important to be aware of this and make a choice rather than just stumbling into it.

^The old fogies who have settled do get pangs at having done so - we must forgive them their ocassional trespasses.

^Of course - just put me in charge. I'd sort out the mess in a jiffy. And I'd provide a few jobs to certain SOLers. Rudy for Chief Jester anyone? Or should that be Ngonge?

^You're not the towing the line old man . How could he not have a problem with you? Cheekiness leads to independant thinking, independant thinking leads to sedition, sedition leads to....

^hey Bob - did the Springboks get a lot of support from Black South Africans. Rugby is still a pretty much white sport there.

^I'm not the one going on about the good old Jalle. And how did you arrive at asking me for 'a solution for the country'? I could well ask you - and do you have a solution for world peace or global hunger?

^How come this debate keeps coming back? Is there really anything to go about for pages? Everyone knows his legacy - it's the reason many of us are in the West and the country is the way it is today.

^Well at least there is some choice in Toronto. Other places - it's pretty much a deserted hole in the wall. Somali food is really good and one could make good money with proper restaurants but somehow we have yet to grasp all the skills needed. Best thing for many to do is set up a lunch stand - bring in a fixed number of dishes - and sell them rather than opting for a sit down experience.