Wakhtigii baa la gaadhey Call the troops! Gentlemen, The Point does not need your Amen corner. Let the lady answer my question on her own. P.Action, you've seen many things but Mintid getting emotional is not one of them. But you're amusing, if that's any consolation.

OK, so what exactly is your position-statement on this? You keep dancing around the issue with "faulty" and "Shallow" analysis accusations but what do you believe?? Let's put it into writing since we're both referring to the same numbers. I'll tell you clearly what I'm claiming - Berbera, under the conditions of no Saudi livestock embargo - was and will remain the premier livestock exportation port for the former Somalia. Are you, for the record, disagreeing with that? My claim is- the years 2001-2008 were an anamoly due to market conditions in which more than 90% of the demand disappeared. Try to keep the emotion in check, though...

It's obvious by your response which one of us is more emotionally attached to what the numbers do, could, and will tell. I will leave it there.

Like you said earlier, young lady, the end-of-year stats will show the truth. In less than a week though, the numbers (Berbera 220,000 vs Bossasso 40,000) seem to be supporting my analysis, not yours. I will make a strategic withdrawal on the charge of your emotions(as you suggested), since I have no means to prove it.

Would it further convince you if I give you a link to interviews with Adde Muse and his relative/advisor Liban Boqor where they discuss their plans of enticing Emirati businessmen to invest in turning Bossasso into a deepwater port - in order to compete with Berbera and Djibouti in the future? That's why I refered to emotions, because this is a very easily verified reality by any Somali watcher. I'm extremely grateful to you for posting those original links, though! Below I've posted a report explaining exactly what I've stated in previous postings from the same UN Sources you've gotten your stats from. It also refers to how, for the bulk of livestock exports from the former Somalia, Saudi Arabia accounts for 98%, while the UAE(Emiratis) and Yemen account for the remaining 2%. This should answer the question posted by a previous poster regarding other markets! The Berbera Lifeline - UN Report

The Point, My friend, you're letting emotions get in the way of your cool analysis. Just to further buttress my point, just a few days ago after the ban was lifted, a ship left Berbera with 220,000 head of livestock(goats and sheep). That's one ship in one day. BBC Link Compare that to the numbers you've posted and you'll see the validity of my earlier statement. Thus, the 220,000 is double the monthly average for the busiest year(2006) reported by Bossasso. It's this reality that our ONLF-supporting brothers allude to earlier in this same thread.

Gentlemen, Not to highjack your discussion with Duke, but there's been some misunderstandings regarding my interest in the livestock numbers for the 2 ports. I'm too lazy to retype what I wrote in the other thread so I will just copy and paste it into here: As for you, Xiin, shallow analysis as usual. The reason I found the charts presented by 'The Point' to be so interesting is: Berbera traditional has handled the bulk of livestock for all of the former Somalia from independence on. Everyone with a scintilla of awareness knows that. The reasons for that are logical - it being the only deepwater port in the area besides Djibouti. In addition, the real trade in livestock for Somalis is with the Saudi market where our livestock fetches the highest price vis-a-vis the price for our livestock in other countries. Bossasso, on the other hand, being a shallow water port, cannot handle the larger traditional live animal ships, but rather mostly dhows and lighter, smaller ships with limited capacity. In addition, Bossasso usually exports to the Yemeni market across the waterway where prices are far lower, and if possible the livestock is smuggled into Southern Saudi Arabia (far away from the major Saudi metropolises and the higher prices). In 2001, the Saudi livestock embargo was put into place, effectively shutting down the Berbera livestock trade. The only market then open to most Somalis was the Yemeni market served primarily by Bossasso (where livestock fetches about 20% of what it would fetch in the Saudi market). If you notice in the charts, Bossasso only started surpassing Berbera starting from 2001 (correlating with the embargo). The increased numbers for Bossasso are still far less than the numbers for Berbera in years preceding the embargo. As usual shallow analysis... Now with the embargo lifted, well, I think even you can figure out what's going to happen...

As for you, Xiin, shallow analysis as usual. The reason I found the charts presented by 'The Point' to be so interesting is: Berbera traditional has handled the bulk of livestock for all of the former Somalia from independence on. Everyone with a scintilla of awareness knows that. The reasons for that are logical - it being the only deepwater port in the area besides Djibouti. In addition, the real trade in livestock for Somalis is with the Saudi market where our livestock fetches the highest price vis-a-vis the price for our livestock in other countries. Bossasso, on the other hand, being a shallow water port, cannot handle the larger traditional live animal ships, but rather mostly dhows and lighter, smaller ships with limited capacity. In addition, Bossasso usually exports to the Yemeni market across the waterway where prices are far lower, and if possible the livestock is smuggled into Southern Saudi Arabia (far away from the major Saudi metropolises and the higher prices). In 2001, the Saudi livestock embargo was put into place, effectively shutting down the Berbera livestock trade. The only market then open to most Somalis was the Yemeni market served primarily by Bossasso (where livestock fetches about 20% of what it would fetch in the Saudi market). If you notice in the charts, Bossasso only started surpassing Berbera starting from 2001 (correlating with the embargo). The increased numbers for Bossasso are still far less than the numbers for Berbera in years preceding the embargo. As usual shallow analysis... Now with the embargo lifted, well, I think even you can figure out what's going to happen...

Originally posted by Abdiladiif: L0L. Experience kulahaa. Oo hada waxaad leedahay nimanku madabaalan yaqaanin mise sida geela loo dhaco uunbey yaqaaniin? Aggah oo hadaa maxay noo dhahaa cagdheertu ilbax maaha hadeyna xataa da-baal dhuflaha aqoon? LOL@ Abdiladiif You've found the weak point. Dabaasha

Xiin, After 18 years, I still have a clean shirt and you're wallowing in the gutter (metaphorically, of course.. LOL). Why do you think that is, Boowe ?? The leading news of the day coming out of one place is an agreement between Hargeisa University and Carlton University (Ottawa) while from the other side... Well, I won't even venture there. This is the reality, my friend. The only way to cure the sickness is to look in the mirror. And that's REAL ADVICE! Sometimes the truth hurts...

ThankfulSP, relax. What a short memory you have! Remember it was Rayaale who saved your uncles when they were being hunted by your local bounty hunter, Abdullahi Yusuf. Rayaale and Somaliland hosted them in safety at the Ambassador Hotel in Hargeisa while they were allowed to ship the technicals they needed through Berbera in order to stand a chance against their local warlord, Mr.Yusuf. So try not to bite the hand that fed you...

Aduunkii baa Soomaalidii kala bartey: Qaar Xalaal ku nool, iyo Qaar Xaaraan ku nool. Yaa Dunya... Magacii Soomaalida dad baa aasay... Weliba ku leeyihiin aan wax isku darsano. Cajiib..

In the past (up to the 1980's), the Somali Mission to the UN was one of the most prestigious postings a Somali diplomat could have. Maanta waa mukhaayad lacagta 'sadaqada' ee Carabtu bixiso lagu cuno... Cajiib...

Xiin is a practioner of that old ploy used by the defeated Nazis and Communists - ' if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it'! It has worked so well for his political forefathers in yesteryears. However, unfortunately, for poor Xiin, the rest of the Somalis have woken up to the fact of the irrelevance of the interests he represents in the current Big Picture. It's been a rough year for him after his false euphoria of expecting Sharif to be his modern day 'Ali Mahdi' who will bend to the advice of his further North neighbors. So let him get some therapeutic release here on SOL. After all, Islamic charity is expected of us in this life...

This is an interesting policy statement. What can be figured from it is the Puntland leadership's lack of faith in the ability of the 4.5 division of the TFG to protect Puntland's interests both within the Ministerial and Parliamentary divisions. It also shows little trust in the Prime Minister's ability to protect Puntland's interest within the Federal/Central structure of the TFG. Thank you, Cowke, for posting it!

More and more, it's beginning to look like an internal affair - the killings are too targeted and exact. It would be difficult for an outsider sent by outside 'extremist' organizations to have that level of detail about the local society and who's a member of PIS and who's not. The following newstory about the latest killing from HOL further proves this point: Nin Rayid ah oo xalay lagu dilay Magaalada Boosaaso Talaado, November 17, 2009(HOL): Waxaa xalay Nin Rayid ah lagu diay Magaalada Boosaaso ee Xarunta u ah Gobolka Bari, taasi oo dhawaanahan ay ka dhacayeen falal amni darro ah oo isugu jiray qaraxyo iyo dilal. Ninkani oo lagu magacaabi jiray Saciid Afrax ayaa waxaa toogtay rag hubeysan xili uu ka soo baxay masjid uu ku soo tukaday, kuwaasi oo markii ay dilka geystay kaddibna goobta ka baxsaday. Waxaa jira warar aan si rasmi ah loo xaqiijin oo sheegaya in ninka la dilay uu ka tirsanaan jiray Ciidmada Sirdoonka Puntland ee PISta loo yaqaano. Ammaanka magaalada Boosaaso oo ah Xarunta Ganacsiga Puntland ayaa in muddo ah wuxuu ammaankeedu ahaa mid aanu hagaagsaneyn, waxaana dhawaan lagu dilay gudaha magaaladaas Guddoomiyihii Maxkamadda Darajada Koowaad ee Gobolka Bari Shiikh Maxamed Cabdi Awaare, kaasi oo ay rag hubeysan toogteen xili uu ka soo baxay Masjid uu ku soo tukaday. Dilka xalay ka dhacay Magaalada Boosaaso ayaa wuxuu ku soo beegmayaa iyadoo maalmihii aynu ka soo gudubnay ay magaalada ka dhacayeen shirar looga arrinsanayay hagaajinta ammaanka Puntland, gaar ahaan midka Magaalada Boosaaso. Sidoo kalena, wuxuu dilkan ku soo beegmayaa iyadoo ciidamada ammaanka Puntland ay si weyn ugu howlan yihiin sugidda ammaanka Puntland, gaar ahaan magaalooyinka waa weyn ee kala ah Boosaaso, Garowe iyo Gaalkacyo. Ciidamada uu howlgeliyay Maamulka Puntland oo isugu jira Boolis iyo Daraawiish ayaa waxaa lagu arkayaa waddooyinka magaalooyinkaas iyagoo dadka iyo gaadiidka baaraya. Salaad Iidow Xasan (Xiis), Hiiraan Online sxiis@hiiraan.com Muqdisho, Soomaaliya

^^ LOL. Xiin, you're a source of constant amusement. A giant in your own mind... I'm a simple Somali, take it easy

Thank you so much! You've just helped me understand the situation.

^^ The Point, Your links did not come through. Could you post the links to your data? This is an interesting area of discussion which very few of us engage in - I'm referring to raw data and its analysis. Thanks in advance...

Originally posted by ThePoint: quote:Originally posted by Meiji: Second, As Northeastern Somalia concerns, it is no different than the other regions in Somalia and it should not behave opportunistic. Its leaders and elite are corrupted and behaving in a clannish selfish manner that goes against the General Interest of Somalis. In 2004, that corrupt and selfish-clanish elite supported the creation of the Tigre Funded Group (TFG) since the leader of that illegitimate group was one of them. That opportunistic and clannish elite have supported the artificial 4.5 clan formula to become the basis for powersharing. Along with that, they supported the idea of mini-clan states which only weaken the unity and power of Somalia. Anno 2009, when the concepts (4.5, TFG) they supported have been taken over by other men who have outplayed them they have resorted to silly threats of ''seceding'' and ''taking back their support for the TFG''. As Qanyare said: You can not claim your share via the 4.5 and the clan-state. Either the 4.5 or through clan-states. Lastly, The clannish and opportunistic elite of Northeastern Somalia (and all other groups who behave likewise) should know one thing: In the near future, Somalia will have a strong central state that is elected by Somali people and in our own country. The various regions in Somalia can exercise power limited to regional issues and in strategic area's they have to work with the central state. In no scenario will regional chieftains and clans be allowed to erode the unity and power of the nation. This means the central state is above any individual region or clan and as such must not negotiate with any individual clan or region. Central State= The Summ of All Somali Regions and its population. As such that collective insitution can not negotiate with an individual clan/region. If you really believe there will be a return to centralized rule from Mogadishu you are deluded. If you think that centralized rule is the correct way to govern Somalia in the midst of mutual distrust and complete government breakdown - you are living on cloud cuckoo land. Let him dream, young lady

Alas... The stateman-shirt is being put on again.... Xiin, Quite a wardrobe you have, my friend.... In a previous thread which was interestingly enough closed by the moderators, you were trying to calm the ire of ONLF-supporters towards Puntland and its supporters and decided to wear a more-fitted shirt (the garments of a clansman desperately trying to keep harmony within the clan against the onslaught of surrounding hostile clans). Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^LOOL Mayya awoowe wax badan baan ogahay oo reerku aad buu idiin rabbaayye ha is shiddeynina you are an strategic asset .Intellectuals know Even the clannist amongs us think you are the keyd of the D clan qoorna waa tihiin Gabaygii Sayidku ugu jawaabay xarunta noo soo rar baad isoo xasuusiseen SOL Link So, excuse me, if I tend to get a little confused as to who I'm dealing with - since the changes in extravagant wardrobes/ideologies can confuse some

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: that you feel inferior to xiin’s analytical rigor is quite palpable If that helps you sleep better at night, I will allow you to believe that - in the spirit of Islamic charity

Xiin, It's always amusing when you resort to name calling and take off the thin statesman-wanna-be shirt you try to wear sometimes on SOL. The post is not for you, but rather to illuminate situations for the casual observer of the Somali quagmire who might fall for your 'House of Mirrors'. Carry on, but try not to rise to the bait so easily

The casual observer might ask why the fuss about this agreement? Well, in spite of the glossy review by some posters of this framework concocted in Galka'ayo - What was even more threatening to non-Puntland groups (the majority of Somalis in the South) in the long run than the few shillings that would be gained by Puntland regarding the staffing/training/maintaining of a rudimentary Coast Guard was: A- The formulation of a Permanent Somalia Constitution in Puntland territory under the tutelage of Puntland elites (in Garowe). Somalis are too well aware of their own history to know what that portends in a permanent power equation encoded in a permanent Constitution (which would naturally give Puntland elites extraordinary powers vis-a-vis other Somali groups ). B- The insistence upon an official Puntland presence at all bilateral and multilateral dealings/agreements/signings/meetings with international actors therefore giving Puntland veto/spoiler powers over national affairs - an exceptional allowance that would rob Sharif of any support from the rest of Somalis. Sharif and his advisors had no choice but to ask for further amendments/changes to the agreement before ratifying it.

^^ Sharif seems to have surprised you lately. Not as easy to guide/advise as the 'Ali Mahdi-type characters' of the past. It's a matter of cold-hard interests. The internal (i.e. Somali) interests that Sharif currently needs to survive in his position are in conflict with the majority of the clauses of the Galka'ayo agreement. It was a poorly calculated gambit on the part of Puntland elites to draft such a one-sided agreement for Ina-Abdirashid Sharmarke to sign. What could Ina-Abdirashid do in that situation? He was between a rock and hard place, and definitely not adroit enough to find a political alternative to present to Faroole & Co. in Galka'ayo.